Wear a tight niqab and you're up for it

[Sola]

As if we didn't know already, wearing modest clothing, even extreme modest clothing, will not protect a woman from being sexual assault.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19440656

When I asked them about a recent case of mass harassment in which women at a park were groped by a gang of boys, they told me the girls brought it on themselves.

"If the girls were dressed respectably, no-one would touch them," one of them said. "It's the way girls dress that makes guys come on to them. The girls came wanting it - even women in niqab."

One of his friends told me the boys were not to blame, and that there was a difference between women who wore loose niqabs and tight ones.

A woman who wore a tight niqab was up for it, he added.

[Mouser]

I read something once about women dressed modestly or in a plain way being more open to sexual attacks because they don't attract as much attention as a woman who is dressed in a way that would garner more attention. Lol, trying hard to word this without offending anyone.

Dressing either way is totally fine and should be your choice, but as more and more women cover themselves and try to hide their bodies, for some reason sexual harassment and assault happens more often! I wonder why this is.

It is really upsetting to me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I read something once about women dressed modestly or in a plain way being more open to sexual attacks because they don't attract as much attention as a woman who is dressed in a way that would garner more attention. Lol, trying hard to word this without offending anyone.

Dressing either way is totally fine and should be your choice, but as more and more women cover themselves and try to hide their bodies, for some reason sexual harassment and assault happens more often! I wonder why this is.

It is really upsetting to me.

No. That is just your perception unless you have some kind of citation to back it up. Women get harassed wearing bikinis, burkas, and every state of dress in between. Simply being a woman means "you're up for it" as far as streeet harassment is concerned - what you're wearing is totally irrelevant. I blame the patriarchy.

**ETA: Women do not cause harassment by dressing modestly. People choosing to harass women causes it.

[shesinsane]

"Religious fundamentalism arose, and they began to target women. They want women to go back to the home and not work.

"Male patriarchal culture does not accept that women are higher than men, because some women had education and got to work, and some men lagged behind and so one way to equalise status is to shock women and force a sexual situation on them anywhere.

"It is not the culture of the Pharaohs; it is the culture of the Bedouins," Mr Sadek says.

------

One of his friends told me the boys were not to blame, and that there was a difference between women who wore loose niqabs and tight ones.

It's always the woman's fault, in this case for being female and within groping distance of the boys. Doomed, so doomed.

[Alecto]

I do know I have seen the attitude from some males (whom I refuse to call men) who like to harass women they percieve as "uptight" or "virginal" trying to corrupt them.

[ElphabaGalinda]

No matter what you're wearing, you're never asking for sexual assault. It's never your fault and what you're wearing has nothing to do with it. It's the fault of the people doing the sexual assaulting. How is that so hard to understand for people? I'm so sick of seeing this attitude over and over again. Even a niqab isn't modest enough...women can never do anything right with this attitude.

[Guest Anonymous]

I do know I have seen the attitude from some males (whom I refuse to call men) who like to harass women they percieve as "uptight" or "virginal" trying to corrupt them.

I grant you that with no reservations. The other side of the coin is "she was dressed up/dressed slutty, so of course we yelled at her, she was asking for it." The game is rigged. There's no way to win or to protect yourself from being yelled after. Someone that wants to harass a woman will always find an excuse to do it.

[Mouser]

No. That is just your perception unless you have some kind of citation to back it up. Women get harassed wearing bikinis, burkas, and every state of dress in between. Simply being a woman means "you're up for it" as far as streeet harassment is concerned - what you're wearing is totally irrelevant. I blame the patriarchy.

**ETA: Women do not cause harassment by dressing modestly. People choosing to harass women causes it.

Sorry, I know you're right. It came out wrong, sort of. I meant that it just seems like in cultures where women are encouraged or forced to dress modestly, it really makes no difference at all. Women are still harassed based on what they're wearing.

I am sure I could wear a box that encases my entire body and moved around on wheels and if someone found out I was a woman it would garner some sort of harassment.

[Guest Anonymous]

Sorry, I know you're right. It came out wrong, sort of. I meant that it just seems like in cultures where women are encouraged or forced to dress modestly, it really makes no difference at all. Women are still harassed based on what they're wearing.

I am sure I could wear a box that encases my entire body and moved around on wheels and if someone found out I was a woman it would garner some sort of harassment.

No worries, I don't always get what I'm meaning to come out clearly either. Sadly your last sentence is spot on. :(

[Sola]

I grant you that with no reservations. The other side of the coin is "she was dressed up/dressed slutty, so of course we yelled at her, she was asking for it." The game is rigged. There's no way to win or to protect yourself from being yelled after. Someone that wants to harass a woman will always find an excuse to do it.

Nail, head, you hit it.

From the 'benign', getting cat called by builders when walking past a building site, to obscene, being raped, it makes no difference what a woman wears.

And that's just it; the answer to all this is NOT telling women what they can and can't wear, the answer does not lie with women. It lies with men. Until men are made to realise that NO actually fucking means NO, nothing will ever change. My sexual assault happened in broad daylight, in a park while I was on my way to meet my friends. I was 13 years old. I was dressed in jeans and a t-shirt.

It makes me so damn angry.

[Minerva]

I grant you that with no reservations. The other side of the coin is "she was dressed up/dressed slutty, so of course we yelled at her, she was asking for it." The game is rigged. There's no way to win or to protect yourself from being yelled after. Someone that wants to harass a woman will always find an excuse to do it.

Yes. It's about power, harassers attribute sexual motives to it only when they have to justify it. Whatever sex-related excuse fits best, they'll take, because it fundamentally isn't about sex. If it was, you'd think the excuses would be consistent.

[deelaem]

In a VERY odd way, their honesty is sort of refreshing. They're fuckwads, but at least they don't try to hide it. I can't tell you how many times in life I've dealt with harassment but it was covered in flattery bullshit, so if I protested, I was just being unreasonable!

Lissar nails it, as always. I too, blame the patriarchy.

[bananacat]

Harassers and rapists frequently choose their victims based on how easy they think they will get away with it. For some, they target women in more revealing clothes knowing the victim will be blamed and attention will be drawn away from him. For others, they target those more "modestly" dressed because they know that nobody will believe that they actually harassed a woman like that. So dress however you want, and it won't change the behavior of rapists. Any advice that is targeted to potential victims instead of the harassers or rapists will never be productive.

[luckystone]

I'm so disgusted right now. When I saw the thread title I thought it would be a parody or a joke. I just don't even know what to say.

[FlorenceHamilton]

If women get harrassed sexually regardless of what they wear, then the reason for the harrasssment cannot be what they wear.

[Chavymishmacoy]

I'm so disgusted right now. When I saw the thread title I thought it would be a parody or a joke. I just don't even know what to say.

This. What a horrific place to live. Oddly, my inlays love to go to Egypt. They stay for a month at a time because they get "such good deals".

[Lady_M]

I do know I have seen the attitude from some males (whom I refuse to call men) who like to harass women they percieve as "uptight" or "virginal" trying to corrupt them.

I've seen this a few times too, and it bothers me. Particularly once when it was directed in a really obnoxious way at a friend who buys into the modesty thing, and it really upset/shook her. She was wearing a fairly loose, blousy button shirt and went to pick something up and the guy made some asshole comment about how when she bent down it was falling away from her body and he could see her undershirt/waist. It made her question whether or not she should wear that outfit again since she'd made a guy look at her in "that way". I really wanted to tell her she just should have flipped the guy the bird, but that's just not her. I totally don't buy into the whole modesty thing, no woman should be treated that way regardless of what she is wearing.

Quite frankly, I'm convinced that I could wear a full burka and the patriarchy would say that my bronze nail polish was tempting them to sin. It's like Mouser says upthread about the full box thing...

[B5SnowDog]

Something similar happened to a classmate back in college. She always wore floor-length skirts for modesty. One night the class met on the roof in order to observe Saturn through the microscope. When she bent over to look through the viewpiece, one of the jackass guys made a comment about her bottom. She was so upset and blamed herself when she talked to me about it. I told her it wasn't her fault at all and guys like that would make comments regardless of what she was wearing. This whole modesty bullshit is responsible for her feeling like she brought it on herself.

[luckystone]

This whole modesty bullshit is responsible for her feeling like she brought it on herself.

And that's all it's responsible for. It doesn't protect people, just makes them feel worse if something happens.

Today my headship and I were at the shops and walked past two women - one had her entire face covered except eyes, but in a tight outfit, and the other one had her head covered but face exposed, with looser clothing. My headship asked who would be more up for it out of the tightly covered one or the more loosely uncovered one :doh:

[angelahuman]

I've seen this a few times too, and it bothers me. Particularly once when it was directed in a really obnoxious way at a friend who buys into the modesty thing, and it really upset/shook her. She was wearing a fairly loose, blousy button shirt and went to pick something up and the guy made some asshole comment about how when she bent down it was falling away from her body and he could see her undershirt/waist. It made her question whether or not she should wear that outfit again since she'd made a guy look at her in "that way". I really wanted to tell her she just should have flipped the guy the bird, but that's just not her. I totally don't buy into the whole modesty thing, no woman should be treated that way regardless of what she is wearing.

Quite frankly, I'm convinced that I could wear a full burka and the patriarchy would say that my bronze nail polish was tempting them to sin. It's like Mouser says upthread about the full box thing...

Always the woman to blame.

Sad cos in situations like that it makes the victim like your friend doubt themselves. That is the first reaction to doubt themselves not to think that the guy is an idiot and in the wrong.