'Divided' The Documentary

[MamaJunebug]

You can't make this stuff up

and apparently

you can't give it away.

razoo.com/story/Divided

"Divided" is a movie/documentary that warns Christians: Your family are in deep trouble if your kids go to Sunday School or children's church, and you should all retool your congregations into family-integrated churches with everybody sitting together through the same service (lectures) at the same time.

Phew.

Over at NCFIC.org, executive director Scott Brown is soliciting donations to make "Divided" available for free viewing in its entirety online. It would appear that the DVD is not flying off the VF warehouse shelves.

I attempted to watch the film's trailer. I couldn't sit still through 2-plus minutes of a disgusted-looking young man with a pug nose staring out windows while a voiceover described certain doom if we don't ... oh, just see paragraph 3, above. :roll:

Give. Give give give and give some more. Oh well. It worked to get Doug & Beall and the kids $50k for their European adventure....

[Buzzard]

I wonder if any of their financial statements are available online. I wonder how much the Duggars give/are paid per year.

[demgirl]

I checked it out. I am, as per usual, horrified. However. The best part was the Razoo link to their non-profit statement, which includes a mission statement that reads:

To strengthen families and churches and assist them for how they might integrate church and family life

TSOTDRT fail. http://www2.guidestar.org/ReportNonProf ... 26-3865682

[doggie]

The worst thing that can happen is all home churching. with no oversight or control people will start getting more strict and more fundie and more isolated and more self centred.

[sableduck]

Philip LeLerc is a good looking, articulate, intelligent young man. He and his brother, Chris, pal around with friends from Vision Forum and--oh yeah--make movies, one of VF's pet projects. His latest project has actually received quite a bit of press outside of the patriarchy circles. "Divided" tackles a hot subject in many Christian circles today--why are young adults leaving the church?

Unsurprisingly, the answer Philip comes up with is age-segregation in the church, specifically youth groups. Why is this unsurprising? Because this documentary was sponsered--if not financially, at least philosophically and emotionally--by the National Council for Family Integrated Churches(http://www.ncfic.org/) If you doubt this in any way, please look at their website, on which Scott Brown repeatedly refers to Divided as "our" movie. Mr. Brown also requests donations to help spread the message of the documentary and says that the NCFIC is the sponser of the online free viewing, as well.

Why am I bringing this up in the beginning of this review? Simply put, because Philip LeLerc has a long history of associating with Vision Forum and NCFIC. Mr. LeLerc claims in the beginning of the film that it is a documentary of his journey to discover why young adults are leaving the church. He wants to know, he claims, why young adults don't want to grow up, respect Scripture, and attend church. He also states that what he discovers shocks and saddens him. It is important to view those claims of open mindedness, however, through the lens of realization that this film was supported, from the inception, by NCFIC and its agenda.

The movie begins with interviews at a Christian music festival. One interviewee fondly remembers his youth pastor pulling him out of school to play video games. Others point out that there is a time for study, and a time to "mess around." The not-so-subtle point, of course, is that every single young adult interviewed remembers the fun of the youth group and not the Biblical study. Other points are made, here, as well, primarily that Philip sees no difference between the youths at the Christian music festival and those he sees out in the world. Through several interviews with two youth pastors(both of whom have now changed their views on the value of "fun" youth activities) and Brett McCracken, author of "Hipster Christianity," Philip comes to the conclusion that parents are abdicating their responsibilities to teach their values to their children because they don't believe they are capable. Instead, Philip feels that parents leave teaching Christianity to youth pastors. He then travels to a youth pastor conference, where several people tell him that the most important part of drawing youth to Christ is being "authentic," which Philip interprets as meaning "just be yourself." Other speakers at the conference tell him that they need to be relational and relevant, and Philip says that many told him that the biggest problem is that parents won't get involved, and expect the church to do the parenting for them.

Philip then begins to research modern church structure, starting with Sunday School. Sunday School, according to his interview with Scott Brown, starts philosophically with Plato, who believed that children needed to be removed from their parents in order to be educated by the state. Churches eventually embraced the same idea, developing curricula based on age segregation. This, according to Doug Phillips, is based on evolutionary thinking, though he doesn't explain how, at least in this film. Philip then throws out all child development theory as he believes it is based on "pagan theories." The only basis for anything, then, according to Doug Phillips and Voddie Bachman, is what is portrayed in Scripture. If something is not described or commanded in Scripture, then it should be automatically prohibited. (No comment on why documentaries, which are not described in Scripture, are allowed)

So now that Philip has come to his(pre-drawn) conclusions, he zeroes in on the family integrated church. For this, he interviews Kevin Swanson, who basically repeats what everyone has said previously: (a) there is no description in Scripture of age-segregated churches, (b) there are many commands to parents to train and raise their children, thus © age-segregated churches are wrong and harmful to families.

At this point, 35 minutes into the film, Philip finally asks the question I have been waiting for. We can all agree that parents need to disciple and teach their own children, but what is wrong with delegating some of that to the church and/or youth ministries, or even using some of those programs in order to disciple your children?

The answer is that youth groups help parents disobey Scripture by not discipling their own children, and are morally wrong because they are not described in the Bible(no word on why church buildings, which were not used in the first century church, are okay). Philip also says that delegating or outsourcing to the church works to separate parents and children, and he stresses there are just some things one cannot delegate. However, this argument breaks down. His examples include things like loving your wife. No, of course you cannot delegate someone to love your wife, because the very definition of "wife" demands an exclusivity. A husband and a wife's love is supposed to be exclusive to one another, and by definition cannot be delegated. The teaching of children, however, does not fall into this definitional category. Of course it is my responsibility to ensure that my son is well educated in my values and religion. But to say that none of it can be delegated is silly; that would mean I can't ask his grandmother to read him a Bible storybook before bedtime if he's spending the night? You laugh, but that is where this logic would lead you if fully drawn out.

The main problem with this documentary, as well as the problem with much of patriarchal thinking, is the rampant either/or logic. Those interviewed in this film are presenting an artificially limited range of choices--either you are being responsible for training your children, or you are leaving all the teaching and discipling to others. Either a theory is developed only by someone with a Christian worldview, or it is wrong. Either something is described or commanded in the Bible, or it is wrong. It is a very common technique in propaganda, and is designed to cleverly seduce someone who is not well informed on a topic.

Just because something, like child development theory, was developed by a "pagan," doesn' make wrong. And simply because something wasn't spoken about in the Bible doesn't make it wrong--after all, as I have pointed out, church buildings, praise bands, 30 minute sermons, and Wednesday night prayer meeting--and documentaries--are not described in the Bible, either, but it doesn't mean that those things are wrong, just that they did not exist when Scripture was written. And while they do try to argue that teaching children about God is something that cannot be delegated, they fail to explain why.

While I certainly agree that modern church has many problems, and that Sunday School and youth ministry have areas that need to be questioned and critically evaluated, I don't find any compelling arguments in Divided. Frankly, it appears to be nothing more than more propaganda from the Vision Forum/NCFIC crowd. To convince those who are able to spot the logical flaws in their arguments, they will, once again, need to do better than this.

[sableduck]

copied from my blog at visiondistorting.blogspot.com. I thought you guys would like to read this review. :)

[emmiedahl]

Thanks for the review.

While there were no age-segregated churches in NT times, women, girls, and young children were segregated. The men and older boys partook of services while the women and younger children sat in another room.

I have been to modern Orthodox services where the same thing is still done. Usually the children are cagey and the women are talking quietly. No scripture is being learned.

[julie]

ah, interesting! I hadn't heard of the movie until I saw a review of it on truefemininity.blogspot.com (obviously a fundie blog ;).

[finleeport]

Even after watching it, I still don't get it. Are these people against youth ministry or age-segregated churches? what are exactly are they against here? I don't get it this documentary has no logic. :?:

[QueenMother]

Thank you for the review. I did click on the link to watch the film, and tried to watch it, but was easily sidetracked to something else. I am going to try again though as I am curious and I am one of those youth that left the church.

[Rhetorica]

Even after watching it, I still don't get it. Are these people against youth ministry or age-segregated churches? what are exactly are they against here? I don't get it this documentary has no logic. :?:

Yes. They have a solution (family-integrated church) in search of a problem. You can't sell a product until you've convinced your targets that they have a need.

[finleeport]

Yes. They have a solution (family-integrated church) in search of a problem. You can't sell a product until you've convinced your targets that they have a need.

I have read that Dougie is against what he calls 'Statism' I heard it when I watched The League of Grateful Sons.

I like to know and understand what Doug Phillips, the Family Integrated Church, Vision Forum and the rest are technically against? What is their main issue with the outside world?

I suffered Fundamentalism long time ago but I still don't understand it :?:

[kaetrin]

My guess is that "family integrated" church is their way of making sure that patriarchs don't have to answer to any other authority structure/social group outside the family. So they have to deconstruct more traditional church institutions (traditional as Protestants go, I suppose) in order to keep the family (i.e. Daddy) supreme in all situations.

Ditto for "Statism." Church and government are both also considered in traditional Christianity to be God-ordained institutions (the family isn't the only one) but the Vision Forum people have to tear them down somehow in order to keep the one they like best (because they run it) from being checked or counter-balanced by others.

[emmiedahl]

When I hear the term "statism" I immediately think it means hating people because of the state they come from. Like the way people in Washington people hate Californians. (even if you have lived here more than 5 years, true story)

[MamaJunebug]

My guess is that "family integrated" church is their way of making sure that patriarchs don't have to answer to any other authority structure/social group outside the family. So they have to deconstruct more traditional church institutions (traditional as Protestants go, I suppose) in order to keep the family (i.e. Daddy) supreme in all situations.

Ditto for "Statism." Church and government are both also considered in traditional Christianity to be God-ordained institutions (the family isn't the only one) but the Vision Forum people have to tear them down somehow in order to keep the one they like best (because they run it) from being checked or counter-balanced by others.

kaetrin, good guess! And what kind of chaos will this bring? A land of Michael Pearl-wannabees, all proclaiming their ever word to be God-inspired and irrefutable. The mind reels.

sableduck, given your personal contact with extremists, I was intrigued to read your review. You didn't disappoint! Your observations about the propaganda, the creating a need to sell a solution, and the really thinly veiled NCFIC agenda in this movie are well worth considering.

Looking at "Divided," I thought about a Lutheran organization for youth, "Higher Things," which presumes that adolescents can and do care about faith and theology (and playtimes) as opposed to relevance (and playtimes). Its supporters contrast its conference to a national youth gathering that has official sponsorship from the Lutheran bureaucracy. The latter one is typical of what "Divided" decries: a week of praise-band worship, relevant good works and playtimes.

I have no direct experience with either, but it will be interesting to see faithful the participants in each event remain in their adult lives.

Finally, I would like to see the statistics for the 20-somethings coming out of the FIC movement today. Do they continue at FIC church services or any church services?

The three elder Serven boys, for example. IIRC only one is living near family who would monitor his behavior (in Missouri, near mom and dad). The other is in Austin, TX, and the third booming around the country with his photography business. Not picking on my gateway family, just thinking of them as an example.

[MamaJunebug]

2nd reply bcz my first one got too goshdarned long:

http://www.higherthings.org/ is the Lutheran organization that, along the lines of what NCFIC seems to boast, says that adolescents can and do care about matters of faith and their own faith. According to its boosters, Higher Things approaches adolescents as young minds and hearts that are capable of real thought and study, and yes, fun.

http://www.lcmsgathering.com/ is the National Lutheran Youth Gathering, which in some ways could be identified with the youth ministry that Leclerc, et.al., fear and criticize so much.

[Brainsample]

Even after watching it, I still don't get it. Are these people against youth ministry or age-segregated churches? what are exactly are they against here? I don't get it this documentary has no logic. :?:

I guess that's why I tried four times to watch it and couldn't get through the first ten minutes without my brain shutting off, finding myself thinking about things like what load of laundry I needed to do next -- shirts or linens?

[Austin]

I think, unlike some of the fundies we watch, most parents, Christian or not, consider age-appropriate independence in their children a good thing. We raised kids to prepare them, to the best of our ability, to live their own lives and we consider it a positive thing when they fly the nest in quest of self-determinism. This starts for most families with nursery school or day care or playgroups, going to school (or participating in homeschool collective activities without mommy standing over them every second), participating in church/community whether it be in service or in the fun things (not that the two are mutually exclusive), and on and on it goes. They learn in small doses over years and years what the world is like and how to get along with all sorts of different people and are exposed to any number of worldviews. And we look at all of this and proclaim, "This is good", and so it is.

Fundies, on the hand, believe that independence is bad. Very bad. Since they are not raising their children to ever self-determine anything, particularly the girls, so cultivating independence in thought or deed is completely counterproductive to their goals. I am appalled by the term "tomato staking", for instance, no matter what age, but especially an adolescent. It's just very, very sad to me. To have a mindset where even Sunday School or youth programs or anything that takes them out of their parents' direct supervision is just mind-blowing to me, and not in a good way at all. I think it's rather sick, to be honest.

[MamaJunebug]

Review by a conservative pastor

http://www.challies.com/dvd-reviews/divided-the-movie

Excellent points made, very readable. Ironically, I found it through NCFIC.org, which criticizes it.