How much money could the Maxwell guys really make?

[lilwriter85]

I mentioned this in another thread sometime back, but I bet none of the reversal kids have ever watched a movie(other than creation museum film). They have probably have never been inside a commercial theater. At least some other fundie families will make the occasional trip to the theater to watch Sherwood movies, or stuff like October Baby.

[Patsy]

2. Are the Maxwell boys legally married to their wives? Could the Maxwell wimmen folk be getting welfare, WIC, or foodstamps by posing as unmarried mothers?

One of Christopher's criteria to photograph a wedding: "Valid marriage license". So I assume they are legally married, yes.

[LurkerOverThePond]

The things he lists in this chapter that he says can "stir bad appetites" are:

...Fishing

I really don't get this (like it would be the only thing I don't get about Steve The God...). Yes, fishing can be an enjoyable and fun (evil!!) hobby for many people but it could also be a way to provide for your family. If you know the right places and times and equipment, you could catch quite a lot of different kinds of fish for almost free and feed your family with really healthy food. Isn't that something that would make you appreciate God even more for providing you and your family?

[Sola]

I wonder if Steve-o is following a calorie restriction diet as a way to live longer and to reduce the chances of age related dementia.

[Funky Chicken]

No, it's just going to seem longer.

[Sola]

Definitely :lol: I can't imagine living in such a joyless atmosphere.

That's what I don't understand though, you'd think that the fundies would excited about the prospect of death and an eternity in heaven. Some are - the Seven Sisters. But surely if the be all and end all of your existence is end up in heaven, why do you need to try and live longer?

[Guest Anonymous]

From what I remember from my born-again days, the younger Maxwells (especially Joseph), will be praying for Jesus to return again AFTER they have had a chance to have sex. Heaven can wait for that.

7 days and counting for young Joe....

[Sola]

From what I remember from my born-again days, the younger Maxwells (especially Joseph), will be praying for Jesus to return again AFTER they have had a chance to have sex. Heaven can wait for that.

7 days and counting for young Joe....

Now, now Anniec, don't make sex an idol for young Joe :lol:

[lilwriter85]

I really don't get this (like it would be the only thing I don't get about Steve The God...). Yes, fishing can be an enjoyable and fun (evil!!) hobby for many people but it could also be a way to provide for your family. If you know the right places and times and equipment, you could catch quite a lot of different kinds of fish for almost free and feed your family with really healthy food. Isn't that something that would make you appreciate God even more for providing you and your family?

Good points there. The same could be said for hunting. I know a few families in which they use elk or deer meat for a lot of meals.

[YPestis]

In this books, Steve says while there's nothing wrong with fishing, it tends to take time away from family and eat up money. I think group fishing and outdoors stuff is ok, it's only when fishing turns into a trip for dad and his friends that it's bad. The maxells are obsessed with the idea of doing everything as a family. They don't like outside friends or interests if it means the entire family can't be included. I wonder if anyone pointed out to Steve that family togetherness is becoming an idol lol.

Im actually eager to see what each of the maxwell boys will do with their own family. It's hard to say until their kids are older and we get to see their choices in homeschooling, churches, friends/interests outside the family. Right now, the maxwell grand kids are infants and toddlers and need constant supervision. Once the kids reach a certain age, the weird maxwell lifestyle may finally rear it's ugly head for these kids,

[pixydust]

Oh, another expense that the Maxwells don't have is gas to and from work. My hubby uses about $200 a month in gas, just for work. When I worked full time it was $250 a month. As far as a I can tell, their expenses would be:

Groceries

Electricity

Water

Car insurance

Cell phones

Property taxes

Gas, if they have house gas

Gas for the car for church and grocery shopping, etc.

The more I think about it, the more I think that Nathan and Christopher could be living on under $15,000 a year, each.

[moreorlessnu]

I think Steve got quite a large redundancy payout. They have said that the lord provided for them when Steve was given the option of being fired or made redundant, because it allowed him to leave the evil workforce and focus on his "ministry" (cult).

What year did he leave the hi-tech field?

In the early 80's, companies like DEC gave people 2 years severance. In the late 80's, the formula was typically 2 weeks severance for every year of service. Then, years later, people typically received 1 week of severance for every year of service. The formula now? I don't know...

Even if a person receives a generous severance, unless they find another comparable job immediately, they aren't squirreling away a nest egg of 10 months or 2 years of salary because they need to use that money to pay the monthly bills. Indefinitely.

So, let's use the best numbers possible...Steve worked at the same company for 20 years (not that common or uncommon in the early 80's). He would not have been making 6 figures in the early 80's in hi-tech. During those years 50k or 60k would have been a high paying job for a manager, and something in the 30s and 40s would be more reasonable for an engineer. His severance might have been 2 weeks severance for each of the 20 years, giving him 40 weeks severance. Not even a year's salary.

If you quit your job today, and were handed 40 weeks of your salary w/ no job prospects...

[SisiL78]

What's the origin of the constant family togetherness stuff that the Maxwells and other fundies practice? Do they base on scripture? It seems like they all practice a certain type of force extreme family closeness.

The more I read about the Maxwells I see images of my friend D*. Her dad "retired early" from being an engineer. She hands over her paycheck to Daddy. They do nearly everything as a family which is Mom, Dad, and two 30 something year old daughters. Nice clothes or anything else that needs to be purchased is Daddy's domain. She doesn't dress modestly (shorts and pants are okay, but they are so old and out of style that a frumper would be preferable). She has a Masters degree but has had a hard time keeping a job because she doesn't really fit in with any of her co-workers and is generally the first to be let go when things go south. Its very Maxwellian despite the lack of religious b.s. behind it.

[emmiedahl]

Steve seems like the type to put as much money as possible in a 401K or whatever retirement arrangement they have at Boeing. He could have had quite a nest egg after such a long time working there. Also, they lived in a relatively expensive area and moved to a very cheap one. If they had their home in Renton/Tukwila/wherever they lived even half paid off, it would be enough to flat out buy a home in Kansas and still have money left. I think they probably came to Kansas with a few hundred thousand and have been investing it modestly. That would provide quite a cushion.

[moreorlessnu]

Also, they lived in a relatively expensive area and moved to a very cheap one. If they had their home in Renton/Tukwila/wherever they lived even half paid off, it would be enough to flat out buy a home in Kansas and still have money left. I think they probably came to Kansas with a few hundred thousand and have been investing it modestly. That would provide quite a cushion.

This makes sense.

Since he knows hi-tech, if he invested in the right stock at the right time, that might have also provided a nice nest egg.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

What's the origin of the constant family togetherness stuff that the Maxwells and other fundies practice? Do they base on scripture? It seems like they all practice a certain type of force extreme family closeness.

Not sure exactly (and I'm definitely not the person who can answer Christian religious questions) but if you read around various blogs of people following this ideal, starting with Jonathan Lindvall (one of the early preachers of this sort of thing at least online) you can see many quotes of "foolishness is bound in the heart of a child." (Prov.22:15).

So the idea is, you don't let your kids associate with other kids because you're just multiplying the amount of foolishness in the room, and you're essentially giving your kids only fools for role models. This is used to encourage homeschooling too - all the snobbery about how their kids aren't "locked in a room all day with same-age kids only" and how they're so mature because they can relate to adults, all that stuff. Associating with other kids just lets fools be fools together.

Some people use this to ban friends entirely, others (including the Maxwells earlier on) will allow some mixing and friends but will insist that the kids always be in pairs (the Maxwells would require one of the pre-reversal kids to be with any reversal kid, if there was another kid around or they were at some event) or that a parent be present (Maxwells later moved to this too). Once you've got a big family going, that's naturally going to start meaning the whole family moves as a unit.

Add to that the whole patriarchy worship thing, with the father of the family as the ultimate arbiter of the family's direction and 200-year generation mission and all that crud. If you let your kids mingle with other adults or heaven forbid get instruction from them (such as at church youth group) they're not only going to be mixing with the other child "fools" in the class but also will be having a role model who isn't Daddy, and that means they might learn something that's slightly different from Daddy's perfect understanding.

Here you'll find plenty of quotes of that same old verse that's used to justify homeschooling, the "And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up ." (Deuteronomy 11:19) It's YOUR responsibility, not a public school teacher's, not the government's, not the youth pastor's. Again combine that with a big family and it's just easiest to insist on family togetherness for all activities.

Then of course the family is completely fetishized as the smallest proper unit of society, but I'm not sure what other verses they might use for it.

[frumpyjumpy]

Well they Maxwell's are def well off, i went to one of their conferences last year, and even tough the do not get paid they will take up a love offering to pay for gas etc. At this particular Conference they had about 120 people in attendance, which probably will boil down to about 70-80 families that will give a love offering, if one family gives the bare minimum of only 20 dollars for a love offering that still would account for 1400 dollars, but i know that most families gave at least 50.

So for one conference they get between 1400 to 4000 dollars.

Also they books they sell are not cheap, the manager of the homes and the managers of their homeschool come as a pack which runs together around 50 dollars, so lets just say 50 families do not own the manager books yet that is another 2500 dollars there

Of course they offer other books, like the moody books and the one terri wrote they run 8 dollars each if only 20 people do buy them that makes 160 dollars.

In the manager of their homes and manager of their homeschool you can also sign up for their shedule brezze and chorepack maker...both of them a waste of money, i know caus i was stupid to sign up each for 12 a year so if 50 of those families attending sign up for it is 1200 ( the sites are run by the boys for their housing funds)

In on Conference alone the walk out with easy 5000 dollars. They doing 2 conference tours and if they only have 10 conferences each year they still would make about 50000 dollars.

Now of course the have other businesses like the i ton ramp which the 5 week course cost 200 per student, if they only have 5 participants every 5 weeks they would still make 1000 dollars a month.

Also someone mentioned that one of the boys does web counseling for various firms, i have friends who are in the same field and their teenager started his business 2 years ago, and is now to go debt free to college for 2 years ( he made about 8000 dollars in two years counseling about 6 companies and churches) So he brings in at least 2000 dollars a year that way

very sure that they also receive some offerings and donations even if they are not working, just because people feel led to give, and i am sure some elderly show their appreciation in financial ways.

They probably started saving for the boys when they were fairly little to purchases their home debt free if they put away only 25 dollars a week into a savings till they get married at age 23 joe would have 27600 dollars in his savings and that is without interest.

I bought into a lot of stuff what they were selling, but not necessary now anymore but i have to admit, they know there way around money.

[gustava]

Well, I am skimming through Steve's book (Preparing Sons) and he has a chapter called "Appetites" - which he says grow out of desire. So by starving "appetites" for certain things, you no longer want or need them in your life. This is one obvious way the Maxwells save a lot of money. If it's not serving God, or has no "eternal value," then they just don't do it, period.

The things he lists in this chapter that he says can "stir bad appetites" are:

- Entertainment

- Recreation

- Movies

- Television

- Spectator Sports

- Team Sports

- Hunting & Fishing

- Recreational Vehicles

- Eating*

- Vice (namely, pornography, alcohol, and cigarettes)

*OK, here's something interesting he has to say about eating:

Then he goes on to say:

So there you have it - why he seems to be so controlling of their food.

Guess he still has an appetite for Sweet Fellowship. :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green:

[AnnieC 305]

There is NO WAY Steve got a huge payout from his job(s). He got 1, possibly 1.5 years pay. He would not have stood a chance in a lawsuit. Who is going to award him big bucks for not wanting to do something required by a job he freely accepted?

Ok, now I'm curious. What didn't he do?

[WonderingInWA]

Guess he still has an appetite for Sweet Fellowship. :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green:

I'd love to know which of his kids developed "excessive appetites". I wonder, too, if they have regular weigh-ins to make sure no one is gaining so much weight they may have to get new clothes!

[Witsec7]

Guess he still has an appetite for Sweet Fellowship. :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green: :angelic-green:

I suspect that particular appetite is regulated as well, and the the pleasure quotient removed from the equation.

[emmiedahl]

Ok, now I'm curious. What didn't he do?

He did not want to deal with female vendors and coworkers. In one Corner, he discussed why he would not have a chaperoned business lunch with a female. Wining and dining is a substantial part of working at a large multinational corporation like Boeing. I have also heard here that he did not want to answer to a female supervisor, but I have only heard it here.

[WonderingInWA]

He did not want to deal with female vendors and coworkers. In one Corner, he discussed why he would not have a chaperoned business lunch with a female. Wining and dining is a substantial part of working at a large multinational corporation like Boeing. I have also heard here that he did not want to answer to a female supervisor, but I have only heard it here.

I think we suspected that he didn't want to answer to a female supervisor, but I don't think anyone knows that for sure (unless maybe it was something Mrs. Mari said at some point, but I don't remember it being anything more than speculation). I believe the clencher was he was supposed to go out to lunch with a female vendor and refused. He's lucky he didn't get his ass fired, but Boeing has a very large legal department and they are very careful how they deal with disgruntled employees so firing him for something like that probably would have landed Boeing with a lawsuit (they have tons of them going on all the time with employees, as I'm sure all large corporations do). He was probably then given the choice to quit rather than be fired so the honus was put back on him to make a decision.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

We know he didn't want to have the lunch.

Aside from that, he angsted forever over quitting his job because they were asking him to do SOMETHING which he wasn't willing to do. We don't know just what that involved - some speculated it again had something to do with women. But the interesting part is, whatever this SOMETHING was, he said that not only was he not willing to do it, he thought that the company should get rid of his job description entirely, that NO ONE should have to do whatever this SOMETHING was. It was that bad (to Steve-O).

So yeah, I don't know what it was, but I'm curious. Thing is, it was something that the company apparently thought he was odd and out of line for not wanting to do, and so ended up letting him go, so I'm thinking it couldn't have any serious actual ethical violation for a secular person, or it should have made bigger news or not ended in his firing, er, forced layoff, whatever.

[patsymae]

Is this a cross post? Gil Bates has said that going to the hospital you should know that they treat you just the same as if you could pay.