Maxwell 17: Life After John Left

[IReallyAmHopewell]

3 hours ago, usmcmom said:

Married Anna's kids will soon have a new sibling. What are they going to think about when that baby has to go for his/her first doctor's apointment? Do they take their kids to the doctor? 

It seems like I remember a post or two where it was mentioned that the aunties watched Anna and Christopher's children because they had a "baby doctor appointment."  Each time that term is used, what must those children think about?  

This whole thing is really bizarre and upsettinf. Filling their children with such fear and hate...I just have no words. 

I wonder if baby "doctor" is really CPM midwife? I hope its an actual MD. Maybe they use the "good doctor, bad doctor" (like the Duggars should have taught "Good touch, bad touch") The whole thing is awful. They are little children. Whatever you want to teach your kids about the abortion debate is your business, but do it in an age-appropriate way. This was not it!

[Ms. Squishels]

8 hours ago, usmcmom said:

I think it comes from a post about Steve's birthday. Sarah wrote that since he was on a diet they did not have a special dessert. (Of course, when Steve diets, everybody diets.) When asked about it in the comments,  Steve replied that he decided they could have animal crackers and they each had two. 

Thank you USMCmom.  Solomon Fundie also gave me the link, so now I've read it!  

8 hours ago, SolomonFundy said:

This is the post: https://blog.titus2.com/2009/08/09/sweetbitter/

It's in the comments. @usmcmom remembered correctly. Steve was on a diet, and got out the animal crackers and doled out two per person so that they had a proper Singing of the Birthday Boy ceremony for him despite the lack of a proper dessert.

I've always been charmed by his rigid insistence on specifying the number of animal crackers. The had TWO EACH, not just "some" animal crackers as a family. Animal cracker hedonism was avoided another day.

 

Thank you SolomonFundy.  I would have never found that, especially in the comments!  I was hoping there were pictures, haha!

[JermajestyDuggar]

8 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Let’s just hope that NR-Anna explains that not every doctor “kills babies”. Ruthie went to the ER once although she likely doesn’t remember.

I’ve never been pregnant. I hope I’m never in a position where I’m considering an abortion. I can’t actually say whether I’d have one, though, because it would depend on the circumstances at that time. I’d certainly never tell another women what to do. Her body, her uterus, her opinion.

That's always the most interesting thing about these fundies. They always seem to think prochoice people push people to have abortions. But that's the opposite of proCHOICE. I would be equally horrified by a person being forced into an abortion as I would be at a person forced into carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. Women deserve to always have the choices available to them. 

[Black Aliss]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:05 PM, usmcmom said:

*deep breath*

I am generally pro-life (ducks to dodge flying fruit). I think I talked to my kids about abortion when they were late elementary/middle school age - when they asked about it.  I told them the basic facts - what the procedure was and why women might choose that option- because women DO have the right to make that choice.

Huh? I'm pro-life. I'm also pro-choice because I believe there's more to pro-life than being pro-forced-birth. Countries where abortion is essentially available on demand (and free) have far lower rates of abortion that in the US. It's not a coincidence that these countries have universal health care, generous maternity leave, and free or heavily subsidized child care.  Ensure that a pregnant woman addicted to drugs can enter a rehab facility immediately instead of when her child is 2 or 3, guarantee her a safe place to live, enough money to live on, decent education and child care, and then you are truly pro-life. Make it a true choice, instead of a lack of options and the abortion rate will go down.

[Hane]

@usmcmom, I’m pretty much with you. When I was a teenager, after learning about fetal development (and LOVING babies), I couldn’t figure out why on earth any person would want to terminate a pregnancy. (I also couldn’t understand how anyone could become unintentionally pregnant.) Then I grew up a little and learned how complicated and messy life can be—that there are physical and mental illnesses that make pregnancy a bad idea, that there are scary life situations, that there are people who just don’t want to be mothers and shouldn’t be. 

Among the people I know, there are a woman whose fetus was anencephalic, a teen who got pregnant on psychiatric drugs harmful to a developing fetus, and two who found they were pregnant just as they were ending bad relationships. Heck, when my first marriage was crashing and burning and my period was very late (my daughter was only 11 months old and I’d EBFd a long time, plus the sex was appallingly infrequent at that point), the thought of an abortion crossed my mind (thankfully, I wasn’t pregnant).

[lilith]

23 minutes ago, Hane said:

@usmcmom, I’m pretty much with you. When I was a teenager, after learning about fetal development (and LOVING babies), I couldn’t figure out why on earth any person would want to terminate a pregnancy. (I also couldn’t understand how anyone could become unintentionally pregnant.) Then I grew up a little and learned how complicated and messy life can be—that there are physical and mental illnesses that make pregnancy a bad idea, that there are scary life situations, that there are people who just don’t want to be mothers and shouldn’t be. 

Among the people I know, there are a woman whose fetus was anencephalic, a teen who got pregnant on psychiatric drugs harmful to a developing fetus, and two who found they were pregnant just as they were ending bad relationships. Heck, when my first marriage was crashing and burning and my period was very late (my daughter was only 11 months old and I’d EBFd a long time, plus the sex was appallingly infrequent at that point), the thought of an abortion crossed my mind (thankfully, I wasn’t pregnant).

I’ve akways been pro choice and had an abortion in my early 20s. Yet when I found myself pregnant as I was preparing to leave an awful marriage I decided to have the baby and give the marriage one last chance - I ended up leaving just before that baby turned 1. 

You can never know what you would do in these circumstances til you find yourself in them. Which is why we can’t try to legislate these choices for other women.

[LaughingDonuts]

Since it’s so important to teach young children about murder, I’m sure Anna has taught her kids that adults are murdered too, and showed them crime scene photos. After all, not only “pre born” children need to be saved, right?

Of course, showing children that would be insane. So why does she tell them about something they view as murdering babies?

[daisyjane1234]

Come on people.  We all know that if we lived life according to the dictates of the all holy Steve then the need for abortion would drop to zero.  Universally.  All women would be fully protected under the magical umbrella by their dad until the umbrella was handed to their husband at the altar.  Their bodies would be regulated and controlled by these "loving" men all the time - unless they are the Leader's own daughters who are too holy to move beyond Steve's umbrella. All women would willingly have sex only after marriage, and then only in their debt-free house purchased before marriage.  Men would always be employed by a male-owned and operated family business that would ensure adequate bank-rolling of the offspring.  Women (not mothers), if they work, would work in the basement packing boxes or some such hidden task.

No babies of significant disability would be born stretching finances to the extreme.  And if they were the community would willingly help freely.  Mental illness doesn't exist and prayer cures everything.  If prayer isn't answered and you continue to suffer it is obviously your fault and God hates you and any child/children.  What did you do wrong?  There would always be enough money in that debt-free home to cover the costs of food because extra-curriculars, education, lessons, and so on are unnecessary, frivolous, and take away from the constant worship of their punitive and fickle deity.  

In Steve's world we would all be monochromatic, simple-minded, Christian robots producing babies for the cult and very little else. The really sad thing is that Steve will read this post and say, "of course, yes", and miss the underlying message.

Sorry for the snark.  That usually isn't me.  But, as I read these posts I am simultaneously working on an undergrad university lecture on the topic of personhood and who/what  constitutes a person.  The lack of critical thinking and nuance on the part of the Maxwell's (and their ilk) is both troubling and heartbreaking,  And really pisses me off.

[Eternalbluepearl]

I'm pro choice because unwanted pregnancies are part of life here on Earth and there needs to be a safe way of addressing that.

There must be some reason other than loving babies that fundies have latched so hard onto the abortion issue but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe as a way of ensuring more christians are born for god's army? Maybe as a way of ensuring christians vote for the desired political party? Someone better at history or smarter at these things might know. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I admit that when someone says they are personally prolife and politically prochoice, I think they are just prochoice. Because being prochoice means you aren't voting for laws to take away a woman's right to choose. Just because abortion isn't an option for you doesn't mean you're prolife. Thats your personal choice for your own body. 

[SPHASH]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I admit that when someone says they are personally prolife and politically prochoice, I think they are just prochoice. Because being prochoice means you aren't voting for laws to take away a woman's right to choose. Just because abortion isn't an option for you doesn't mean you're prolife. Thats your personal choice for your own body. 

That is me.  Personally I'm pro life but I wouldn't stand in the way of a woman CHOOSING to have an abortion.  New post up.  Happy Fucking Birthday Poor Sarah!  You still read to Goofy Anna and Scary Mary before they fall asleep at night, WTF?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

WOW Sarah started the hallowed mini-candy bar tradition! Just needs a stuffed penguin and she could be an Arndt! Poor Sarah. No life.

[daisyjane1234]

54 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm pro choice because unwanted pregnancies are part of life here on Earth and there needs to be a safe way of addressing that.

There must be some reason other than loving babies that fundies have latched so hard onto the abortion issue but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe as a way of ensuring more christians are born for god's army? Maybe as a way of ensuring christians vote for the desired political party? Someone better at history or smarter at these things might know. 

The abortion "issue" isn't just about saving babies - though that is a part of it.  The abortion issue is largely about patriarchal men controlling the bodies and lives of women.  It is ALL ABOUT power over women and their sexuality/sexual activity.  And more importantly, the pro-life movement is about punishing women, and their babies by extension, for what these controlling men see as sexual transgressions on the part of women.  Anti-abortion (and anti-contraception) is absolutely about men controlling women, their bodies and sex lives, and reproduction all under the guise of Christian values.

Interestingly.  As mentioned above I am prepping a lecture on personhood (which includes the topic of abortion) for a class I teach.  I was organizing a lecture about key ethicists that weigh in on the topic and they were ALL middle aged, white men.  I have deliberately re-written the lecture to include at least one woman.  

[nelliebelle1197]

Well, a nice couple is appalled by Anna Marie. I am sure they will not make it past moderation.

Quote

Carolina and Jake Jackson says:

January 19, 2018 at 9:34 am

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I have to be honest. I think these children are too young to have such responsibility. It is a parent’s job to shelter a child. A child so young should not be thus burden. We have never commented before but this was so appalling we had to break our silence. These children are not old enough to know such things. You might as well let them watch horror movies at five. Your family should be ashamed.

Reply

 

20 hours ago, SolomonFundy said:

This is the post: https://blog.titus2.com/2009/08/09/sweetbitter/

It's in the comments. @usmcmom remembered correctly. Steve was on a diet, and got out the animal crackers and doled out two per person so that they had a proper Singing of the Birthday Boy ceremony for him despite the lack of a proper dessert.

I've always been charmed by his rigid insistence on specifying the number of animal crackers. The had TWO EACH, not just "some" animal crackers as a family. Animal cracker hedonism was avoided another day.

 

And then there is the Taco Bell Incident in which Joseph and John were denied food over a fight about dogs and cats with Reversal Anna.

[Eternalbluepearl]

16 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

And then there is the Taco Bell Incident in which Joseph and John were denied food over a fight about dogs and cats with Reversal Anna.

Okay this sounds made up but I've read it and I know it happened. I hope the worst thing my kids do someday is argue about cats and dogs. 

Thanks for the explanation, @daisyjane1234. Was I not supposed to say "abortion issue?" I'm just wondering, not snarking. I get intimidated to discuss certain topics because I will say it wrong. 

[Foudeb]

37 minutes ago, daisyjane1234 said:

Anti-abortion (and anti-contraception) is absolutely about men controlling women, their bodies and sex lives, and reproduction all under the guise of Christian values.

So much this. The case for pro-life is an easy one to make, and one that the women who are actually pregnant are in fact making. Reasoning in their place is just saying that they are not capable of reason themselves.

Otherwise people would be hunting down women who have had an abortion rather than the medical professionals who performed it. That would at least recognise that women have the cognitive skills and agency to make their own decisions. Going after the doctor just says "that poor woman is like a toddler who played with knives, unable to understand that knives are bad. Let's blame the person who put the knife within their reach!"

If, on the other hand, you understand that women are people who do what they want, being pro-life turns into making sure they have access to sexual education, contraception, free health care for themselves and their (potential) children, access to child benefits to help them raise a child potentially on their own, and access to medical help and respite care in case their child is disabled. And that rapists are systematically prosecuted and punished. And that all rape victims are listened to, believed, and supported (because how else can we make sure that the rapists are being identified in the first place).

And of course that abortion is easily available, and safe, so that no one feels pressured and so that all children know they were wanted, and that women who do seek an abortion at any point in their lives stay safe and sufficiently healthy, bodily and mentally, that they may go one to have a baby at a later point in life if they so wish. Because if we're going to fight for life here we might as well start with the woman's own life, the one that a backstreet abortion would put in jeopardy.

It's a bit more complex than standing in front of a building with a herd of small kids and placards, so those morons may not be capable of it though.

 

On another topic sounds like Steve listened to our less-than-impressed commentary on last year's birthday post. This post sounds like he tried to put the words "love" and "appreciate" in every other sentence.

Not that the sentences are properly constructed. "even though it costs what you want to do, you are always investing in solving issues others are happy not to deal with". WTF, Steve, WTF. Put the hallucinogenic mushrooms away please. I think you're trying to say "you will solve any problem, even one other people didn't think themselves capable of tackling, no matter the cost to you".

Edit coming in 3...2...1...

[mydoggoskeeper]

Sarah's birthday post was just sad.  It was equal parts pity and fundie marriage ad.

She may be old, but she is in shape!  Works out every day.

She will be a great mom - already reads to kids-sisters.  

Hard worker.  Plenty of years left of labor!

Also, too bad she isn't a mom, but she blesses them anyway.  We acknowledge your sacrifice of spinsterhood so that others may spawn.  

[Odd1Out]

Please tell me she’s not just reading the Moody books to Anna and Mary!!! 

[mango_fandango]

3 minutes ago, Odd1Out said:

Please tell me she’s not just reading the Moody books to Anna and Mary!!! 

It’ll probably be the Bible. Or it may be the Moody books. I like writing stories (for fun) and sometimes read them aloud to myself. I don’t read them to anyone though. I guess it’s useful to have feedback.

[nelliebelle1197]

5 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

It’ll probably be the Bible. Or it may be the Moody books. I like writing stories (for fun) and sometimes read them aloud to myself. I don’t read them to anyone though. I guess it’s useful to have feedback.

No, no. It is Sweet Sister Bible Time, you heathen.

[mango_fandango]

Oops. I stand corrected. *goes to prayer closet* 

[refugee]

3 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

I'm pro choice because unwanted pregnancies are part of life here on Earth and there needs to be a safe way of addressing that.

There must be some reason other than loving babies that fundies have latched so hard onto the abortion issue but I'm not sure what it is. Maybe as a way of ensuring more christians are born for god's army? Maybe as a way of ensuring christians vote for the desired political party? Someone better at history or smarter at these things might know. 

Your comment brought to mind a recent conversation, either here on FJ or IRL (or both) where someone brought up the idea that it is another way for men to exert control over women’s bodies. It makes sense to me that such a thing could be an underlying motivation that the women in the movement aren’t aware of.

*oh geez, reading further in the comments I see this has been more than adequately addressed by others. I should have known it would be.

[kpmom]

Steve writes;

"In order to help develop her writing skills, Sarah often reads out loud to Anna and Mary before they go to sleep."

That sounds so sweet, a big sister reading to her little sisters before they go to sleep.

Until you realize the little sisters are, what?  20 and 25?  Something like that.

Also, how old is Sarah this birthday?

[catlady]

pretty sure Sara is either 36 or 37 this year.

[church_of_dog]

1 minute ago, kpmom said:

Steve writes;

"In order to help develop her writing skills, Sarah often reads out loud to Anna and Mary before they go to sleep."

That sounds so sweet, a big sister reading to her little sisters before they go to sleep.

Until you realize the little sisters are, what?  20 and 25?  Something like that.

Also, how old is Sarah this birthday?

My take on this phrasing was that Sarah reads some of her own writing out loud, which could in theory help improve her skills both by gettng feedback from others and from hearing her words in context.  Of course, unless this is a brand new habit, I'd have to say "it's not working"...