Squeezing the kids in tiny houses

[fundiefan]

Does Kim show pictures of the library? Is it a proper room? Could it just actually be a fairly large bookcase that is called their "library"?? I've known people to call their "library" a pile of Reader's Digest condensed bound books their which consisted of the space against the wall under and beside a window with books just stacked and laying on their sides.

Has anyone considered that it might not be a proper room that is suitable as a bedroom, and something more of a breakfast nook?

The two bedrooms were described as being the same size when she was explaining sleeping arrangement pre-industrial shelving, when there were four kids to a room.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Does Kim show pictures of the library? Is it a proper room? Could it just actually be a fairly large bookcase that is called their "library"?? I've known people to call their "library" a pile of Reader's Digest condensed bound books their which consisted of the space against the wall under and beside a window with books just stacked and laying on their sides.

Has anyone considered that it might not be a proper room that is suitable as a bedroom, and something more of a breakfast nook?

You know, Kim is now taking questions over on her blog... I posted the link in the "Sleeping on Shelving" thread. I'd love to see the answer if you ask her!

[carolinabekah]

I can't imagine being forced to share a room with that siblings or live in such a small house with that many people!

My brother and I are 3 years apart and shared a room for a few years when we were really young....I ended up sleeping in there most of the time anyway so my parents decided to go ahead and put my bed in there and make my room a playroom.

When we moved at ages 4 and 7 we went back to having our own rooms.

I was greatful to have only had 1 sibling cause as I got older I did not share my space well!

[Brainsample]

In an audio of Mortimer's "Time Traveler's Guide to Medieval History" or something or other, they discuss sleeping quarters.

Families would often sleep on beds in a big loft, with multiple children in a bed, that is, until a girl became a little older. Even before puberty, a young woman would get her own bed or would share it with a "cousin" or sister. She would be taken out of the mixed gender arrangement she may have had at that time, but boys and men were required to share beds. In the event that you were an adult male and could have your own room, you had to share it with another man who may or may not be your relative. It was just good sport and proper to refrain from sleeping naked, just to be neighborly.

[Brainsample]

The two bedrooms were described as being the same size when she was explaining sleeping arrangement pre-industrial shelving, when there were four kids to a room.

Kim has a "floorplan" link, and it shows an equally-sized room, each with names listed, and their bedroom is the same size as the ones for the kids. This must be the one that has been converted into a library.

I wonder if, now that the girls have tried it all out, if they still love the idea of the racks, or did the novelty of it all wear off?

[BlondeAgent007]

Do they really need a whole LIBRARY? I mean, if you're going to live in a small space, invest in some ways to use it. Why not get the kids ebooks? The kids could have libraries saved in their own personal books. They could fit a whole library on half a shelf. Or, if they prefer hard copies, why not use swap.com or the like? They must need new material if they are homeschooling and the like. All it costs is to ship the item. They could get rid of the books they have read and replace them with new ones. For people trying to live in a small space, having a library instead of a bedroom for 12 people seems quite frivolous

[Cassandra]

Denying privacy can be a prelude to mental health issues. Everyone needs "alone" time. I think these families make such a huge deal out of "impure thoughts" that I wonder how their kids avoid having them? And, when do they get to just breathe?? Never, I guess. So sad.

I saw families in Africa living in one or two rooms. Whenever possible each child at least had a mat or blanket of their own. It's a myth that families in 3rd world all sleep together because it's so "natural." It's pure economics. When they can afford it they add a blanket--or a ROOM. It's not something they choose.

This! I'm one of those people who absolutely needs my alone time. When I was younger (7ish) and spent every afternoon with my babysitter and her two children the babysitter was under instruction to just let me be alone for 20 minutes if I started getting antsy or upset. 20 minutes alone by myself in a quiet place can completely recharge me, and keep me from freaking out.

As for kids in tiny houses, a few years ago I got to see the house my grandma and her 13 siblings grew up in. It was two stories with a kitchen, living area, and two bedrooms. It was definitely cramped, but what helped was the spacing between children. By the time my grandma was born a few of her siblings were already 18 and out of the house. There were never more than 7-8 kids in the house at a time because they were all born 3-4 years apart.

Now if you're having a kid every 12 months....

[Cassandra]

Do they really need a whole LIBRARY? I mean, if you're going to live in a small space, invest in some ways to use it. Why not get the kids ebooks? The kids could have libraries saved in their own personal books. They could fit a whole library on half a shelf. Or, if they prefer hard copies, why not use swap.com or the like? They must need new material if they are homeschooling and the like. All it costs is to ship the item. They could get rid of the books they have read and replace them with new ones. For people trying to live in a small space, having a library instead of a bedroom for 12 people seems quite frivolous

Why can't they just go to a library? It's free, and even the smallest communities have at least a small one. I see nothing wrong with buying a favorite book that you're going to read multiple times, but then again, you can also check out a book multiple times. When I was younger in the summer I would check out 5 young adult books a week from my library. If my mom had bought me all those books we wouldn't have been able to afford food!

[liltwinstar]

I'm guessing they don't use the public library much because it doesn't have the books they want. I'm sure you could get, say The Institutes of Biblical Law through Inter-Library Loan, but you can't (usually) just walk into your local library and grab it off the shelf. Also, a lot of fundie parents believe that you should screen your children's reading material, which would be hard to do if each of your 10 kids was checking out even 5 books on a regular basis. So, if you have a home library, you can purchase books that you agree with and make your kids choose from those. I don't think my library carries books from VF or from the other smaller/fringe groups that tend to publish reconstructionist theology. Plus, at a public library, your kids might be exposed to evil stuff like Harry Potter or Science.

Also, there are those who say that the public library is an ungodly institution that should not be patronized by Good Christians. Those types don't bother with it at all.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Why can't they just go to a library?

Many places do not have public libraries. I'm a librarian and I know how hard it is to get funding thanks to state budget cuts, etc. Even those libraries that are available are making due with shorter hours, less staff, less money. That could be the reason. Let alone, how hard it would be to find "suitable" books at one for this family.

[Austin]

Reading all of these blogs with a bunch of children crammed into a bedroom, I just feel so thankful that I never had to deal with anything like that. I think it probably would have been damaging to my psyche if I had to grow up that way, as I just need some breathing room. I actually need a fair amount of alone time to feel in balance, and I'm guessing alone time would be at a premium or impossible in some of these situations.

Having said that, I do realize that Americans have different ideas culturally about how much space people need. When our boys were in soccer day camp, we volunteered to house a coach that had come over from the UK for the week. I remember mentioning to him when he arrived that we didn't have a real big house, but that he should just make himself at home. He looked at me and said something to the effect of how much bigger our 1600 SF house would be considered quite large where he was from in the UK.

[Brainsample]

Many places do not have public libraries. I'm a librarian and I know how hard it is to get funding thanks to state budget cuts, etc. Even those libraries that are available are making due with shorter hours, less staff, less money. That could be the reason. Let alone, how hard it would be to find "suitable" books at one for this family.

Granted, my parents both worked when I was a kid, but they occasionally took me to the local branch of the library, but they didn't want me to borrow. I was notorious for not returning things on time.

In Bandera, in the Texas Hill Country, the public library did serve a great purpose there for people who could not buy their own books -- or didn't have anywhere to store them. We also had a fairly large community of elderly folks there, and they relied on the library as well. It was a true community work there, not just a forgotten place, and we had lots of people (Christian and not) in the area that homeschooled their kids and used the services there.

There is the utility of keeping a particular set of books to be used, over and over, when homeschooling many children. And if you want your children to be readers, they need to have books available and need to see mom and dad reading, too. But I would think that so close to Vision Forum central, a person could do a great deal of loaning and borrowing books as they needed them. I wonder if VF has or would consider starting a lending library for the glut of likeminded homeschoolers there in the area. This could be infinitely helpful concerning consolidating and space, too. Because I'm sure that the local public library in most communities would not want to stock a collection of VF books and such. If you wanted to read them, you'd have to buy them or borrow them from friends.

I can also attest to the book related fear mongering that goes on. There was once a day when I feared that the government would one day come to claim my Christian books, and before then, they would make the sale of them illegal. Part of the organizing and clutter containment guides state that you should keep an infrequently used book (on something other than DIY home repair and such) based on whether it was too difficult to repurchase if you needed it again. With google books and digital books and online used book sales today, this is less and less of a problem. But there was a day when I seriously doubted that I'd be able to buy such and such a book because it was controversial. I can buy copies of many of these books for a dime plus $4 shipping these days on Amazon or Powells. If they're that important to have, I can buy a new one.

[Rosa]

Isn't the library for homeschooling? A school for as many kids as she has should take up at least one entire room.

[helloemi]

I work at the main library of a decent sized U.S. city. We get several home school families that come in every day to do "Virtual School" offered in our state. Yes, this consists of parking them at the computer with the moms look at magazines or gossip.

There are the home schooled kids that come in to get books, but I just feel so sorry for this one 16 year old daughter who can only check out Christian fiction. We are talking Christian romance with women in bonnets on the front....Shudder. Poor thing having to play second mom to 4-5 little ones and not even getting to read a Twilight book. lol!

[Feberin]

Having said that, I do realize that Americans have different ideas culturally about how much space people need. When our boys were in soccer day camp, we volunteered to house a coach that had come over from the UK for the week. I remember mentioning to him when he arrived that we didn't have a real big house, but that he should just make himself at home. He looked at me and said something to the effect of how much bigger our 1600 SF house would be considered quite large where he was from in the UK.

I like to watch HGTV and on House Hunters international and it's always interesting to see families adapt to the size of houses in Europe compared to their American standards. However it also seems to me that those houses utilize the space much better. And people aren't having 19 kids.

[emmiedahl]

Europeans are experts at fitting into smaller spaces because in general they have much smaller homes. European home shows and IKEA are my friends. Even if I can't afford to buy new furniture there, I get a lot of good ideas and can make similar items or repurpose them.

It also helps (for me at least) to remind yourself that in most of the world, 1200 sq ft or whatever you have is not 'small'.

otoh there is no home big enough for 19 kids. Humans were not meant to have litters.

[cjsmom]

It also helps (for me at least) to remind yourself that in most of the world, 1200 sq ft or whatever you have is not 'small'.

I have 1100 square feet for 3 now that my stepson has moved out. Sometimes it feels too big - the kitchen and living room are huge. Bedrooms are modest - one bathroom. We have plenty of space but some would consider our home far too small.

[clibbyjo]

I work at the main library of a decent sized U.S. city. We get several home school families that come in every day to do "Virtual School" offered in our state. Yes, this consists of parking them at the computer with the moms look at magazines or gossip.

There are the home schooled kids that come in to get books, but I just feel so sorry for this one 16 year old daughter who can only check out Christian fiction. We are talking Christian romance with women in bonnets on the front....Shudder. Poor thing having to play second mom to 4-5 little ones and not even getting to read a Twilight book. lol!

Don't they get free computers if they cyberschool? They should, unless the mom doesn't want the kids having their own computers at home.All the cybers I know of give free computers and they pay the internet bill. That is why many poor homeschoolers do it in the first place.