Squeezing the kids in tiny houses

[clibbyjo]

Why is it all these fundies squeeze their million kids in tiny houses? I can see buying a small house and adding on, but they never add on. The 8 girls on the shelves got me thinking about it.

I have a 3 bedroom, 1 bath farmhouse,but we have weird rooms we use for a "music room", a "sun room(now a hockey room) and a "nook" that could be turned into bedrooms if I REALLY had to make more room.

They cannot all use the excuse of "1 income". I am homeschooling and we have a cheap old house on 3 acres so its possible to find enough rooms for your family if you try.

My sister bought a 1 bedroom house with 2 bedrooms in the basement when she had 4 kids.They bought it cheap and for the land(11 acres of woods) They added on 3 more bedrooms right away and she had 2 more kids.(the boys bedroom and girls bedrooms are both very large,with gas fireplaces and very nice with 3 and 2 kids in each). The oldest girl has her own bedroom. Their basement rooms are now school room and exercise room, so they have extra rooms as well.

I just don't get how crammming all those kids in a tiny house makes anyone happy? :think:

[Ridiculous]

its possible to find enough rooms for your family if you try.

That is sooo dependent on where you live, though. In high cost of living areas, there's just no way you'd be able to afford a house that's "big enough" for the huge families unless there was some really decent money coming in.

ETA: That's not to say I agree with stacking kids like cordwood. I'm sure there's a better solution than what some of these families come up with.

[clibbyjo]

True, but if you know you want 12 kids and have 1 income, don't you decide somewhere like California or NYC would be out? I would love to live somewhere warm and sunny, but here I can live comfortable and homeschool which is more important to me right now. In 10 years when baby boy is grown, we are heading somewhere warm and sunny and small. :)

[Ridiculous]

Well, sometimes you have to follow work. I know my husband's best job prospects are in high cost of living areas, because that's where the big industry stuff is. It's all a trade off. Of course, most of these fundies families have dads that work manual jobs that are indispensable enough that they will find some sort of work almost anywhere. I mean, carpenters and plumbers and such are needed everywhere, right?

[GenerationCedarchip]

It might not just be high cost of living areas. There are some states out there with very loose zoning laws, but in some areas, adding on x number of bedrooms can violate zoning. And if you're in the suburbs, you've got the tyranny of the homeowners' associations.

[slickcat79]

ITA clibby. I just saw the one who built her kids bunks into a closet :( They live on a farm, or at least a place where they have enough room and freedom to raise and slaughter chickens on their property. Yet the most effective use of the kids' room is to put beds in the closet? How small is that room?

I'm pretty sure LiaS moved into their current house intending to add on...they knew at the time that the house was too small but they bought it anyway. Now instead of adding more room to the house, they've just added more kids to the existing space. On purpose. There's really no excuse for that.

[doggie]

I think for the most part is is to keep the kids together so they can't have alone time. because you know the devil is in the underwear of their children.

[DamnPrecious]

I think for the most part is is to keep the kids together so they can't have alone time. because you know the devil is in the underwear of their children.

This is what I was thinking. Also, don't these people believe too much space causes family to drift apart?

[Brainsample]

This is what I was thinking. Also, don't these people believe too much space causes family to drift apart?

I don't know if this works though. I have two families of friends who tried putting all the kids in the basement in one big bedroom, and there were problems with the teen boys, even in the big rooms. The one family was pretty much forced to move the boy out because he couldn't control himself, so they put him in the room upstairs with the baby.

[xDreamerx]

I know all areas are a different factors to consider when looking at real estate markets and that different states have different laws. I'm Canadian so our markets and laws are different but speaking very generally, it's all about the location. For example in Toronto, metro T.O. or any of the suburbs are quite expensive but in country, the surrounding counties, I would wager that you get twice the land for the price and the property taxes would be a good deal lower. I know some people who live Ottawa. They got a townhouse in the suburbs (3 bedrooms) for around 300, 000, but if you were to cross the river into Quebec you could purchase a fairly large (by comparison) stand alone home for that price.

The community I live in is very suburban in 1950s sense, small brick model homes. They probably would sell somewhere in the 200 thousand range even though they are small and many lack garages, because they are considered to be a better neighbourhood. I don't know personally, but I'm basing this on some people in the area I know who have sold recently. Now across town, in area not considered to be so nice, one could probably get a 4 bedroom fairly large home with a decent yard for the same money.

Here's the crux for me: A lot of the fundies seem to live in the rural midwest or rural south where I assume property and real estate is much cheaper than areas so why not add on if you insist on having more kids?

[clibbyjo]

I know all areas are a different factors to consider when looking at real estate markets and that different states have different laws. I'm Canadian so our markets and laws are different but speaking very generally, it's all about the location. For example in Toronto, metro T.O. or any of the suburbs are quite expensive but in country, the surrounding counties, I would wager that you get twice the land for the price and the property taxes would be a good deal lower. I know some people who live Ottawa. They got a townhouse in the suburbs (3 bedrooms) for around 300, 000, but if you were to cross the river into Quebec you could purchase a fairly large (by comparison) stand alone home for that price.

The community I live in is very suburban in 1950s sense, small brick model homes. They probably would sell somewhere in the 200 thousand range even though they are small and many lack garages, because they are considered to be a better neighbourhood. I don't know personally, but I'm basing this on some people in the area I know who have sold recently. Now across town, in area not considered to be so nice, one could probably get a 4 bedroom fairly large home with a decent yard for the same money.

Here's the crux for me: A lot of the fundies seem to live in the rural midwest or rural south where I assume property and real estate is much cheaper than areas so why not add on if you insist on having more kids?

I do think the rural south and midwest are cheaper in comparison to CA. or the Northwest/East. I don't think the fundies plan ahead. I knew at age 22 when I got married I wanted 4 kids and I wanted land and a farmhouse because I would be homeschooling. We set out to buy the cheapest farmhouse with at least an acre we could find. This house was in shambles when we bought it, but I saw the potential and knew we could afford it "as is" but not once it was fixed up. We have remodeled almost every room and could not afford to buy this house now.

I cannot imagine crowding us all in a tiny 2 bedroom house. We all like to spread out when not hanging out in my bedroom. The kids are in the woods most of the day or at least outside somewhere. The"music room" is used everyday and we have a drum set,electric guitar and piano which would drive me bonkers if I didn;t have it closed off from the rest of the house.

When I was in Quebec a few weeks ago, my friend said her house(2 bedroom row house) is worth $500K. You could get a huge house on acres for that here.I am just not a city person, I cannot have neighbors,I need land.

[Kaylee]

A lot of people probably can't afford to add on and, with the real estate market the way it's been for the last few years, some people who had planned to move up are stuck in their homes now (not an excuse if their kids are older than 3 or 4, though). Also, in rural areas with septic tanks, there is a limit to the number of bedrooms on the septic system, so you can't just tack on a 4th or 5th bedroom with a 3 bedroom septic (people do, but it can't be called a bedroom).

Seriously, though, if you plan on a large family, and/or know you're going to have a bunch more kids, then you should buy a house with the room for your family to grow. That's why the hubby & I bought a 3 bedroom starting out. We knew we wanted children, and that would mean we had space for a couple before having to move again. You can always use the extra rooms as a guest room, sewing/craft room or whatever in the mean time. Once the kids are born though, they are the priority. The families that piss me off are the one with craft/sewing and extra rooms taking up bedrooms, and then multiple kids crammed into one bedroom. If I had so many that my children were sleeping 4 high on shelves, I think the hubby and I would be sleeping in the living room on a sofa bed to free up the big bedroom for kids and at least knock it down from 8 to 4 to a room.

[xDreamerx]

A lot of people probably can't afford to add on and, with the real estate market the way it's been for the last few years, some people who had planned to move up are stuck in their homes now (not an excuse if their kids are older than 3 or 4, though). Also, in rural areas with septic tanks, there is a limit to the number of bedrooms on the septic system, so you can't just tack on a 4th or 5th bedroom with a 3 bedroom septic (people do, but it can't be called a bedroom).

Seriously, though, if you plan on a large family, and/or know you're going to have a bunch more kids, then you should buy a house with the room for your family to grow. That's why the hubby & I bought a 3 bedroom starting out. We knew we wanted children, and that would mean we had space for a couple before having to move again. You can always use the extra rooms as a guest room, sewing/craft room or whatever in the mean time. Once the kids are born though, they are the priority. The families that piss me off are the one with craft/sewing and extra rooms taking up bedrooms, and then multiple kids crammed into one bedroom. If I had so many that my children were sleeping 4 high on shelves, I think the hubby and I would be sleeping in the living room on a sofa bed to free up the big bedroom for kids and at least knock it down from 8 to 4 to a room.

Exactly. I mean do you really need a library or a music room? I have a ton of books and they're just kind of everywhere because if we designated a room for books, we would have either a) less living space or b) one less bedroom and while I would like it if we had an extra room to make into a library, we don't. You just have to make do with what you have sometimes. Why they don't try to make it more comfortable for the children they love so dearly is beyond me.

[Brainsample]

If I had so many that my children were sleeping 4 high on shelves, I think the hubby and I would be sleeping in the living room on a sofa bed to free up the big bedroom for kids and at least knock it down from 8 to 4 to a room.

Raine, you're right about many families lacking the funds to expand their homes, even when they live in the country. They have extra travel expenses for living away from work which is part of the plan -- live 50 miles away from the big cities if you can, so you can be safe when society revolts. Extra money is spent on these survival preparedness "needs." One family at Doug's BCA, at one point anyway, had no potable water in their home, and the kids haul water from neighbors' property every day because the family can't afford to drill a well. Doug praised them like warrior martyrs in the culture war for family. (Wonder if anyone ever gave them money to drill a well?)

...

Concerning sleeping in the living room, I saw this done on the cable show, Clean House. Netflix has a single season of the show from some time ago, one of the instant viewing options and in the second half of the season somewhere.

A family had a four year old daughter who slept on the floor in the tiny, single bedroom with the parents in a tiny, one bedroom house. The team found a very nice convertible couch/bed thing that I think worked like a trundle which they placed in the living room for the parents. There was room enough for a chest in the living room where the pillows and bedding could be stowed during the day. They made over the bedroom for the little girl and consolidated the toys down so that they fit in the bedroom instead of all over the living room. It was beautiful, and this couple was able to do it for their little girl in their very tiny house, financing it with the money they raised selling their surplus of stuff.

[darareaksmey]

But don't you think even if they had more room they'd still be stacking the kids like cordwood? It's all about keeping order and subjugating the will of the individual. Besides if they are all together in one room the angelic ones can rat out the others.

[aelar]

I sort of understand the concept behind cramming kids into a small space for sleeping to free up more room in the house elsewhere. When you've got so many kids that you are running out of space, splitting the kids among several rooms could just mean that everywhere is crowded with beds and furniture, rather than just one room where all they do is sleep.

It's not like four kids rather than eight in a 10x10 room are going to have any privacy or room to play in anyway (though they might have real beds at least). Condensing the sleeping space means the kids have more room to use the rest of the house for daytime activities, so I could see where the kids really do like having a library, where they can retreat to read or just be away from the crowd in the bedroom.

Of course, I don't understand getting into a situation where you have to choose between giving your kids comfortable beds and giving your kids room to play and stretch out and have occasional privacy. Having a very snug, but safe and comfortable sleeping arrangement -- if your kids are ok with the bargain of shared bedroom space to get a dedicated play space -- is one thing. Shelves and two feet of foam is entirely different.

My husband and I have the smallest bedroom because we don't need the room for anything but a place to hold clothes and a comfortable bed. I'm only having one child, and she has the largest room in our house because I wanted her to have lots of room to play. In fact, her crib and later her bed is technically in the room's closet, though we widened the closet into a sheltered nook, that will be big enough to fit a twin bed when she's old enough for one. Using the closet this way increases the floorspace for playing, and creates a cozy space in her high-ceiling room. But there's nothing hanging above her except a lightweight mobile and unframed art! I'm a Californian, and anything more above a bed freaks me out.

[amie]

..........

[Brainsample]

I was so inspired by this episode and the family was SO nice, I looked it up. I was wrong! It was not in the second half of the single season online at Netflix.

I hope that people who are cramped in their homes and have lots of children can take a look at this episode and can get inspired. Maybe it's better to give up a bedroom so that their kids can have more space and they don't have to be stacked like cordwood.

It is Clean House, Season 7, Episode 13: The Gonzales Family.

It was so nice to watch, inspiring, and it was amazing what they did.

[Brainsample]

But don't you think even if they had more room they'd still be stacking the kids like cordwood? It's all about keeping order and subjugating the will of the individual. Besides if they are all together in one room the angelic ones can rat out the others.

Rat out the others

-- Is that a Kim in a Shoe Freudian slip? :mrgreen:

[emmiedahl]

You can fit a lot of children in a small home while still providing for individuality and privacy. It might be difficult, but it is your duty as a parent. Honestly? I would sleep on the cement on my back porch before I saw my children eight to a tiny bedroom on shelves.

All of the parent we read have the space to make things a little nicer for the kids but they won't. Remember Emily--she gets a proper bedroom and bed while her babies sleep on the floor in a closet under the goddamn crib, with sharp metal objects hanging above them. The mom in LiaS has a bedroom of her own as a well as a library while her kids sleep stacked like canned goods. THe woman in that other blog listed here shows off her big, impccably decorated (by her standards) bedroom while her daughters are squished into pop up beds in a closet.

Every one of these women could do better for their children without spending a dime if they were willing to actually practice a little of the self-sacrifice they harp about.

[Markie]

The woman with the 8 stacked kids initally had the kids in 2 rooms on real bunk beds - double on the bottom and single on the top. The parents could move to the smallest bedroom with the baby and spread the kids between the two larger bedrooms on the real beds they had. They could even modify the shelf bed, with space to sit up if they needed to for the extra kids. They could also STOP HAVING KIDS they can't afford to care for properly!

[lilwriter85]

They are probably different reasons to why people squeezing kids into tiny houses. I think it mostly issues with money for these families and like others mentioned if money wasn't issue zoning laws could prevent it too.

[clibbyjo]

A lot of people probably can't afford to add on and, with the real estate market the way it's been for the last few years, some people who had planned to move up are stuck in their homes now (not an excuse if their kids are older than 3 or 4, though). Also, in rural areas with septic tanks, there is a limit to the number of bedrooms on the septic system, so you can't just tack on a 4th or 5th bedroom with a 3 bedroom septic (people do, but it can't be called a bedroom).

Seriously, though, if you plan on a large family, and/or know you're going to have a bunch more kids, then you should buy a house with the room for your family to grow. That's why the hubby & I bought a 3 bedroom starting out. We knew we wanted children, and that would mean we had space for a couple before having to move again. You can always use the extra rooms as a guest room, sewing/craft room or whatever in the mean time. Once the kids are born though, they are the priority. The families that piss me off are the one with craft/sewing and extra rooms taking up bedrooms, and then multiple kids crammed into one bedroom. If I had so many that my children were sleeping 4 high on shelves, I think the hubby and I would be sleeping in the living room on a sofa bed to free up the big bedroom for kids and at least knock it down from 8 to 4 to a room.

I have a septic system and I have never heard I cannot add on bedrooms.(I don't plan to,my 2 boys share and will continue to do so ) We do plan to add another bathroom ,but it would be tapped into the same system and no problem. I want a screened in porch too,but that is way down the road.

It just pisses me off the kids in these cramped houses are the ones who suffer. As others have said, the parents have real beds and space while the kids are like sardines. Most of those families homeschool as well, so the kids are always togther and cramped in those houses. I homeschool and I cannot imagine homeschooling all those kids and being unable to find any space alone.

[doggie]

I can't imagine the stink in that room in the middle of the summer. since it was decided they don't need air conditioners.

[apple1]

Clibbyjo's statements about ratio of bedrooms per septic tank is correct (at least around here- I think these are local zoning regs).