Difference bt the amish and a mennonite (spelling)

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lindsay says (06/10/11 10:53:41)

 

 

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can someone help me out here? my bf moved to montana and encounters tons of mennonites (spelling). We are wondering about the difference between them and the amish, because some customs sound familiar.

Since I have no experience with either groups besides literature, I would like to know what the differences are

 

THanks guys!

 

Lindsay Says

 

ruralWI.mothersagainstp... (06/10/11 11:13:35)

 

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Since he is in MT, he could be encountering either Amish, Hutterites, or Mennonites.

They all have varying rules- it would be pages and pages a post to even go into just a basic premise of their beliefs.

GO to wikipedia and look up each branch. Hutterites are the only branch that are communal of the three. The rest are family-based.

 

Alecto (06/10/11 14:57:56)

 

 

 

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Also, each individual church in each individual group has different beliefs and cultural expectations.

 

xDreamerx (06/10/11 15:07:32)

 

 

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As far as I know, the Mennonites are a group that split off from the Amish. They have common beliefs but split over doctrinal issues. The Amish aren't a homogeneous group either. There are Old Order, New Order, Beachy Amish, and Swartzentruber Amish. There might even be other groups but those are the ones I know.

 

Doc Sharon4321 (06/10/11 15:14:09)

 

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The Mennonites were around first. The Amish were originally Mennonites who broke away because they felt the Mennonite church wasn't conservative enough.

 

There are wide variations between practices in both faiths. In general, Mennonites tend to dress less conservatively, although there are groups who wear Amish type garb including caps for the women. However, there are Mennonite sects where more modern dress is the norm, some even allow the women to wear pants. Most Mennonites are fine with modern conveniences like electricity, telephones and cars. Most Amish are not. The Amish tend to separate themselves from the rest of society while Mennonites don't necessarily do this.

 

For example, I live very near Holmes County, Ohio; the largest Amish community in the US. There are tons of 'Amish-style' restaurants out there where the servers are women who wear Amish-type dresses with aprons and caps. However, they're not Amish, they're Mennonites who dress conservatively (pretty common for Mennonites here). The Amish would never permit their daughters to be exposed to the large numbers of 'Yankees' who frequent the tourist restaurants.

 

As noted above, there are wide variations from community to community as to norms. You'll find old order Amish who practice shunning while others are less exclusionary. Mennonites are even more diverse.

 

An interesting read is 'Mennonite in a Little Black Dress' written by a woman whose father is a big time Mennonite leader. She was raised in California and I was surprised when reading it to discover that she went to regular schools, wore basically normal clothes (no jeans, no bare skin) and was encouraged to attend college (her dad taught at a Mennonite college). She left the faith as an adult as did her sister; a brother is still deeply involved. However, her parents have remained very close and loving to her and she with them. Although she jokes about the quirks of Mennonite life in the book, it is clear she deeply respects both of her parents, especially her mom, and admires their faith and commitment.

 

 

Divine Duchess of Giggles (06/10/11 15:23:36)

 

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Is Mennonite in a Black Dress the one where she gets a divorce and then breaks her leg so she has to go home so her folks can take care of her while she heals and her mom tries to get her to date her cousin or something funny like that? I think I read the book jacket on that one and almost bought it. It sounded cute.

 

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Wolfie (06/10/11 15:32:57)

As others have said- Mennonites vary from almost amish, all the way to pretty much mainstream.

Alecto (06/10/11 15:37:58)

Yes, that's it. It is a very good read.

Wolfie (06/10/11 15:38:22)

My mom read that and loved it. From the location of where her dad taught, I would assume that her family was Mennonite Brethren. One of the more mainstream groups. (and they've gotten a lot more mainstream even in the last 30 years- so the current 20 and 30 somethings aren't at all like the current 70 and 80 somethings.) MBs are pretty much into education, and they haven't dressed different for quite a while. (jeans are no problem now, and if you go to an MB college on a warm day, you'll see girls sunbathing in bikinis. At least you would in the late 90's.)

Lainey.digestioninform... (06/10/11 16:29:58)

My friend's a Mennonite by baptism, and you'd never know it except that her beliefs are kind of on the fundie-lite side. She dresses normally; I think the only time I've ever seen her wear a dress was at my wedding (she was my maid of honour). That said, she considers herself non-denominational.

I keep thinking of the "Amish Paradise" song by Weird Al: "♪♫We're all crazy Mennonites, living in an Amish paradise...♪♫" Laugh

americanniqabi (06/11/11 05:31:57)

What part of MT is he in? Perhaps I can tell you which group he's seeing.

Onora (06/11/11 05:46:29)

I live in South Central PA, basically the motherlode for Amish, Mennonite, German Baptist, River Brethren and many other plain anabaptist groups. I can't add much to what's already been explained (Doc did a good job) except, there are various orders of these different sects. For example, there are Old Order and New Order Mennonites. New Order basically dress similar to anybody else, have modern conveniences, etc. while Old Order dress similiary to Amish.

Many times the garb and customs such as style of hat for men, etc. seems to be dictate by the local church community.

I had frequent interaction with people from all these groups at a previous job, and they own businesses too. Many times they are craftsmen or have bulk food markets. Depending on the group, both men and women may go to college. Mennonites are more progressive with that. I thnk Amish usually stop at 8th grade though. They do for each other if someone's in trouble. They are perfectly nice people and don't ignore "English" non plain people. They just have their own ways and go about them.

Doc Sharon4321 (06/11/11 07:11:19)

Yup, her husband actually leaves her for a guy named Bob he met on Gay.com. She manages to maintain a sense of humor about it, though.

roddma1 (06/11/11 18:33:37)

That song was hilarious. I think the Mennonites are modern than the Amish. From my understanding, some broke off and formed their own group because they felt the Mennonites weren't strict enough.

bethany818 (06/11/11 22:34:12)

From what Ive read from Beverly Lewis, and Wanda Brustletter (?), the main difference, as far as doctrine, is the Mennonite believe in salvation by grace, Amish believes in salvation by works. I may be way off here, since I dont know any personally.

LeftyMom (06/11/11 23:18:11)

My kid's paternal family lives up the road from a Mennonite university and at least in that area the Menonnites dress normally, if somewhat conservatively. I guess "modern modest" would be the fundie equivalent, though the closest parallel that comes to mind to me, because I'm from out west, is the way Mormons typically dress: a tick or two more conservative than average in a bland, GAP shopper kinda way. I certainly haven't seen anybody in that area wearing a bonnet and cape or anything. I'm told there used to be rules about what cars were sufficiently modest (dark sedans, pickups were okay if you needed one for work or a farm) but that these days minivans and SUVs are fine too as long as they're not too flashy or plush.

But those are the people who went away to college, or work at the university, or live in/near a college town, so it's probably not the most conservative example.

Wolfie (06/12/11 00:07:40)

I guess I'll repeat it again- there is a HUGE range of "Mennonites" everything from almost Amish to liberal Christian. You can't really classify them into one group.

http://www.thirdway.com/menno/

http://info.mennolink.org/conferences.html

Last Edited By: Wolfie 06/12/11 00:11:51. Edited 1 times.

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avalondaughter (06/12/11 06:05:21)

I went to college in Lancaster County PA where Amish and Mennnonites thrive. There was definitely a spectrum of Menonnite dress and behaviors. There were students at my school who were Mennonite. You might not guess at first glance, but some of them had super-long hair and slightly frumpy (even in pants) dress. There was also a Mennonite school in the area. I went to a fundraising pig roast there once and was surprised to see that it was quite a modern school, welcoming to all faiths, and did not have kids walking around in dresses and capes and hair coverings. One time when I was performing in a campus production of "A Midsummer Night's Dream" some of the Mennonite classes came to see it. We were a little surprised considering the bawdy material. Obviously it cleared the teachers' and administrators' censors. We were chatting with the audience after the performance though and one girl said her mother wouldfaint at some of hte material in the play.

rhetorica (06/12/11 07:06:51)

To me--born and raised Amish Mennonite (but no longer identify with the tradition)--most of what's been said in this thread is quite accurate and I don't have much to add, except to say that Beverly Lewis books are a load of crock. Apparently she lives in Lancaster County, but that makes her about as much of an insider as going into McDonalds makes you a hamburger. I haven't read Wanda Brunstetter, but my sense is that that whole genre can tell you more about the people reading the books (mostly non-Amish) than the tradition they claim to be writing about.

For example, your generalizations here, bethany818, are more or less true. HOWEVER, the way those differences get communicated in these Amish romance books are so out of touch it's laughable. I read in an article that Beverly Lewis offers consultations to outsiders since she's seen as something of an expert. That makes me really angry in a way I can't quite explain. I imagine she's a perfectly nice person, but she's a pathetic writer and "Amish expert." For example, Lewis published this book of "Amish Prayers" but it's basically bad poetry with Amish slapped on it. The cover shows a woman and a child kneeling by a bed in prayer. Just that one simple picture has several cultural inaccuracies--first, the presumed mother is wearing a Pennsylvania-style headcovering and her child is wearing an Ohio-style headcovering (very odd that they would be different). Secondly, prayers are typically held downstairs in the living room with the whole family present, not in the individualistic "Now I lay me down to sleep" kind of way with mother tucking a child into bed. (Not saying individual prayers like this never happen, it's just not the way family prayer generally happens in Amish homes where there are typically oodles of children.) To outsiders, of course, these inaccuracies are probably mere minutia, which makes my larger point--these books are about mainstream Americans, not real Amish people.

That's not to say that outsiders shouldn't write about the culture at all, but others have done it far, far better. For example, Jodi Picoult's Plain Truth blew me away with her sensitivity to the social and cultural nuances--and she only lived with an Amish family for two weeks. She named some of the social norms I had never been aware of yet had been doing all my life. She's so good!

Thank you all for letting me get that out of my system.

Oh, wait. I thought of something else to add. One way to think of the differences and similarities of the Amish and Mennonite groups is to compare them with regional differences in the U.S. On one hand, regional differences cut very deeply into American daily life, politics, religion, etc (North/South, East Coast/West Coast/Midwest, working class/upper middle class). On the other hand, there are some things--like, say, apple pie and individualism--that show up virtually wherever you find Americans. The Amish and Mennonite groups also have important commonalities and definite differences, but identifying which is which can be very difficult for outsiders since the cultural norms are handed down orally/informally. They originally were central European peasants who fled to the hills for survival--no time for fancy organizational structure or academics for them!

[jjmennonite]

Delurking - been reading Free Jinger for months now - love you all (almost - not the crap on the rug types).

I am Mennonite born and partly raised. Rhetorica is right on, as far as I can tell. I am totally Mennonite, by culture, despite having left the religion at the age of 5, 12, and 17.* Mennonite in a Little Black Dress is hilarious, especially to me. There is so much I can relate to. Also 'A Complicated Kindness' by Miriam Toews almost describes my small town upbringing.

Mennonites vary widely in belief, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

*Until the age of 5, my parents belonged to the Holdemans, who dress like fundies - black headcoverings, homemade modest dresses for women, and men have to wear beards. They can be seen in Alberta, BC, Manitoba, Kansas, Georgia, Montana and likely some other states - I am Canadian, and those are just the states where I can think of my relatives living. They were all required to be farmers, but now are allowed to be tradesmen as well. Women are definitely submissive and are allowed to be school teachers in their own schools or workers in old-age homes, and not much else. In Alberta, they were the first to win the right to take your children out of school, and thus paved the way for home-schooling. They have their own schools, only to grade 9 and are technically home-schools, as their teachers are not qualified by the ebils of higher education. My parents were expelled for going to other churches (Pentecostal) and they were shunned. The Holdeman shunning consisted of: no eating at the same table (relatives would welcome us to their homes and seat my parents at a separate table), no kissing or hand-shaking (men great each other with a 'holy kiss' - on the lips - eeek), and if you are married to an expelled person you are not supposed to have sex - unless they threaten divorce, (have seen children born of such relationships). They have a lot of rules about dress, and avoiding being worldly. Worldly is one of their favourite words. They sing beautifully in 4 part harmony a Capella since musical instruments are too worldly (missed all the bits in the bible with the trumpets and so on). They have the standard anti-gay, anti-abortion stuff, and technically are not to use birth control, but don't get into trouble for it. They supposedly use the courtship model - God shows the man who he should marry and he asks his minister to ask her father to ask her. Then God shows her whether or not she should say yes. So she gets a choice, and many times the young man and woman have already agreed with each other, to marry, before going through the formalities. One of their big tenets of faith is their exclusivity - they are 'The Only True Church' and heaven will be a very sparsely populated place.

NB - please excuse me if I am hijacking this thread - don't mean to.

When I was 9 we moved away from our Pentecostal church, and I attended a Mennonite Brethren church - we dressed normally but drinking and dancing were cardinal sins. Left that town and that church when I was 13.

When I was 15 I moved in with my Uncle and Aunt who were Holdemans and attended church with them.

I recently re-embraced my Mennonite roots (culturally, not in beliefs) and did a volunteer week with Mennonite Disaster Service (MDS) - building houses in the Gulf Coast area of Mississippi. I worked alongside and shared accommodations with some Old Order Mennonites - they use horse-and-buggies, and dress a lot like Holdemans, but they accept others as Christians. Holdemans can't participate in MDS because we sang and prayed together at MDS - that kind of means we accept each other as Christians. They assumed I was a Christian, because I have a Mennonite name and background and I did not state otherwise.

Our branch of Mennonites came from Germany, via Russia, and the Old Order Mennonites and maybe the Amish came from Switzerland. We speak different (unwritten) dialects of Low German - I don't actually speak it, but apparently they can understand each other, mostly.

Again, sorry for the thread hijack and the long winded post, but I have accumulated quite a large body of knowledge about Mennonites over the years. Other than the anti-gay, you are going to hell if you don't believe my way, submission of women, and anything else hateful, I am very happy to call myself Mennonite. IE I have a lot of fond memories of experiences with my relatives, and my MDS experience really warmed my heart.

[Wolfie]

Again, sorry for the thread hijack and the long winded post, but I have accumulated quite a large body of knowledge about Mennonites over the years. Other than the anti-gay, you are going to hell if you don't believe my way, submission of women, and anything else hateful, I am very happy to call myself Mennonite. IE I have a lot of fond memories of experiences with my relatives, and my MDS experience really warmed my heart.

Welcome!

Some people are trying to change things-

http://www.bmclgbt.org/index.shtml

http://gaymennonite.com/default.aspx

(not blocking the links, because I don't think that they will mind)

And I'll pull a zwieback out of the freezer for you- or would you prefer a bierrock? ;)

[jjmennonite]

Thanks Wolfie - my best girlfriend EVAH (he doesn't mind being called a girl) is a gay Mennonite man who attended Goshen College. I'd love a zwieback but our bierrocks must have had a different name.

[Wolfie]

They are basically ground beef and cabbage stuffed rolls. I have to admit that there aren't any currently in my freezer, but I plan to get some made and frozen for quick meals before school starts back up in the fall. (I do have zwieback in there)

I also haven't seen a lot of women must submit in the more liberal Mennonite denominations- in fact some churches have women pastors now. Lots of change.

[Rhetorica]

Woohoo, jjm! Always good to run into another ex-Menno. There was a Holdeman community in central Pennsylvania where I was raised, and our cousins had Holdeman relatives, so I'm familiar with them and their quite rigid ideology. (Although I've long said that the difference between the Holdemans and other plain Menno groups is that they are honest about their exclusivity. The other groups believe the same thing, but don't admit it.) After our family moved to Oklahoma, my younger sister attended a Holdeman grade school for a while so I had the pleasure of sitting through several school programs (end-of-year events). My Dad (who was an Amish Menno minister for most of my life) has always had a soft spot for them, so we attended their revival meetings occasionally over the years.

I may have mentioned this in another thread, but when my husband and I were new in town (Missouri), I wanted to find a nice liberal Mennonite church with a lesbian minister :P , so I called up the only Mennonite church in the phone book. The man who answered the phone had a nice Anglo name--so far, so good! I could already see the peace posters on the wall! Just before I hung up, I asked about their denominational affiliation--Church of God in Christ Mennonite, he said. Needless to say, we made other plans for the day.

I forgot to say earlier how much I loved "Mennonite in a Little Black Dress." Beyond awesome! "A Complicated Kindness" was good too, although coming from the Swiss German/East Coast-ish bloodlines, I couldn't identify with it quite as much as I'd hoped. Instead of zwieback, we have half-moon pies and bean soup, ya know?

[jjmennonite]

Nice to meet you too, Rhe. I only learned this year that the Amish were a branch of Mennonites.