Fundies and Government Aid

[BelieveinScience]

I agree completely.

In the US, we do not do a good job of preventing social problems. In fact our system is set up to create them, and then our social welfare systems simply put out fires and keep people alive. When all of out people have any kind of chance at being successful, then maybe we can start judging them for not being so.

I think it is wrong to plan more kids when you have plenty already and cannot afford them. That said, these women are in an abusive religious system that demands they have baby after baby. Family planning is not an option. Working is not an option. They are told to trust in God and then He never comes through, so we have to. Quiverfull creates tragedy the same way a neighborhood riddled with crack addicts and drive-by shootings does. Abba, you are in a dangerous subculture that creates human tragedy. The food stamps are the least of your problems.

Isn't the current welfare system set up to keep people trapped and poor and forever needing the government for help? That's what I've heard I don't know if in a general sense if it's true though.

[formergothardite]

I think I said many times I wasn't going anywhere. I just took a leave of absence to recover from surgery.

In the last message you sent me you said you were thinking about leaving FJ because you didn't have the patience to deal with us, since we did things like support rapists. :roll:

[nomi]

Nomi, is there a food pantry near you? That could help out until or even after you get SNAP especially during the summer. And thanks for the summer reminder that I should give some extra since the kids will be home.

There are several run by the churches in this area, but I'm not sure how to go about contacting them. I need to look into it. There was Angel Food Ministries but that got shut down due to corruption which sucks. I do have a charity account with the local coop now so I get organic eggs, dairy, veggies, meat, etc...but it isn't enough to really fill in the gaps it just supplements, I get 150 points a month (milk is 7 pts/week, eggs are 6 pts/dozen, and everything else varies). The eggs and dairy are awesome though because they're from farm raised/pastured animals and local/organic and that right there would cost me $30-$50 a month if I were buying it in the store. I love the organization, when I called to cancel my account they asked why to make sure it wasn't anything they were doing wrong on their side. I just explained I was divorcing and was going to a very minimal income and he asked some questions and told me to that he would see about getting me approved and a few days later I got the email in my inbox. I wanted to cry.

[emmiedahl]

Isn't the current welfare system set up to keep people trapped and poor and forever needing the government for help? That's what I've heard I don't know if in a general sense if it's true though.

Since you can only receive cash aid for five years in your lifetime, I doubt that is contributing to it.

As for food stamps and medicaid, I have never known anyone to say, "I won't take this higher paying job with benefits because I already have medicaid" or whatever. I think the system itself does not trap people, but being poor with no resources certainly does. I am sure there is a correlation between generational poverty and utilizing welfare, but this is because upwardly mobile people don't need the assistance.

[Witsec7]

There are several run by the churches in this area, but I'm not sure how to go about contacting them. I need to look into it. There was Angel Food Ministries but that got shut down due to corruption which sucks. I do have a charity account with the local coop now so I get organic eggs, dairy, veggies, meat, etc...but it isn't enough to really fill in the gaps it just supplements, I get 150 points a month (milk is 7 pts/week, eggs are 6 pts/dozen, and everything else varies). The eggs and dairy are awesome though because they're from farm raised/pastured animals and local/organic and that right there would cost me $30-$50 a month if I were buying it in the store. I love the organization, when I called to cancel my account they asked why to make sure it wasn't anything they were doing wrong on their side. I just explained I was divorcing and was going to a very minimal income and he asked some questions and told me to that he would see about getting me approved and a few days later I got the email in my inbox. I wanted to cry.

Please check with your food pantries at churches, they were an enormous amount of help to me last year when I was on SNAP. During the summer months they also have an abundance of fresh veggies and fruit. Most Farmers Mkts here in the US will take SNAP as well. I do understand your tears of joy upon getting your email. I felt the same way last October.

[Coconut Flan]

At the food pantry where I make donations, all the person has to do is show up during the hours it is open. I'm not sure how much questioning or registering is done as I can't help with the running of it. It sounds very minimal and a family is allowed to get a box weekly from there. Each one has their own rules no doubt. That is wonderful that you can get such great items from Angel Foods.

[Witsec7]

Nomi, I forgot to add there are summer meal programs available to school age children as well. Your benefits office will have information on that.

[freejoytoo]

Given that there is such a huge stigma attached to welfare in the US (even worse than here in the UK) I doubt many want to stay in the system. IMO, if people do stay in it, it's probably because they don't have many resources or outside help. I think it's outrageous that you have to pay for medical care.

[JesusFightClub]

There is a trap here, I know because I fell in it.

I was on benefits when I took a job on a zero hours contract (which loads of them are now). I had to declare it because it wasn't cash in hand, and I have strong feelings about that sort of thing anyway. Boom! There go your entitlements.

I was paid weekly and I had been stood down for two weeks, and I went to plead with the council for some cash because I was borrowing. DWP, our welfare guys, already said "no, you are in full time employment". Guess what the council said too.

[Arete]

Nomi,

What experiencedd and abigail said. Also most churches (at least in my area) will give food assistance whether you are a believer or not, so don't get hung up on that. I'm super happy you have access to organic eggs and milk for your kids. Not enough good things can be said for coops and community supported agriculture.

As for the OP of fundies and government aid, I don't think anybody has said fundie kids should suffer and go hungry because their parents are cranks. But I have a lot of reservation about the "no interference in their culture" rule when it comes to these people for the following reason: They breed and indoctrinate their children at an alarming rate and with alarming ideas. I don't see how a social security network can be maintained when half the future workers will not work because they are women, and the men will be mostly in low level jobs paying low levels of taxes due to their abysmal education. They will then use their numbers to destroy minority rights, abortion rights, and throw in that services should be accessed through religious institutions and not the government for good measure. In short, they will drag everybody else into their little worldview through a spin on one man, one vote, one time. Just to be clear, as much as I can't stand their reproducing like rabbits on the taxpayer dime, I do not endorse forced birth control, sterilization or any interference with the sanctity of an individual's body. Now, they want to homeschool, fine, there are going to be some standards, and not bullshit Arkansas standards. You will teach evolution, the scientific method, higher mathematics, and state approved history and social studies ciriculum. There will be approved reading lists just like in a public school. You can make a good argument that they may have the right to screw up their own families, but they do not have a right to expect society to roll over and play dead while they continue on the road to turning the US into a theocracy.

Sorry about the rant, I really meant to be brief. :oops:

[Feberin]

Everyone is complaining about helping people who have children for the sake of it, but surely their children shouldn't have to suffer for their parents' poor choices? It's not like removing the safety net would stop that from happening. I'd rather a fundie got government aid than let their child suffer out of pride.

I don't think anyone has said "let the kids starve" or "have a baby on welfare and you're cut off". We're saying that they are making very poor choices by continuing to have children when they can't afford them. Nobody wants to see children going hungry but that doesn't mean we have to approve of their parents' choices.

[Sola]

I know, and that's what's so sad. We seriously need to re-vamp the American child welfare system because it sucks, badly.

And revamping it will cost money, ie: taxes. Are you willing to pay more taxes?

[Austin]

Mods,

I'll leave this to you to decide. If you think I deliberately created a ghost account, then ban me. I'm sorry I didn't read the rules. If I were attempting to hide myself, I wouldn't have used my former username with just a few numbers on the end. I had a change of email address, and oops I forgot to change that here before closing my old email account. That's what I think screwed my login up. I tried to PM this to a mod rather than posting it here, but the system thinks I'm a new member & the PM feature isn't available yet.

I have deleted your "geniebelle" account (retaining your posts). I don't believe you were trying to hide your identity, but we do routinely ban for sockpuppets so please keep that in mind.

[Sola]

There are several run by the churches in this area, but I'm not sure how to go about contacting them. I need to look into it. There was Angel Food Ministries but that got shut down due to corruption which sucks. I do have a charity account with the local coop now so I get organic eggs, dairy, veggies, meat, etc...but it isn't enough to really fill in the gaps it just supplements, I get 150 points a month (milk is 7 pts/week, eggs are 6 pts/dozen, and everything else varies). The eggs and dairy are awesome though because they're from farm raised/pastured animals and local/organic and that right there would cost me $30-$50 a month if I were buying it in the store. I love the organization, when I called to cancel my account they asked why to make sure it wasn't anything they were doing wrong on their side. I just explained I was divorcing and was going to a very minimal income and he asked some questions and told me to that he would see about getting me approved and a few days later I got the email in my inbox. I wanted to cry.

And this is why I am bloody glad that the UK has a better welfare system than the US has. Nobody should have to live like that.

[mrs]

Nomi, I'm sorry you are going through this.

If you are working, you can have your tax withholding adjusted temporarily. That way you will have access to more money in your paycheck.

Also, it might be a good idea to ask to have credit limit increased now, if you have low/no balance. Once it get close to the limit credit companies are less likely to approve an increase in credit limit.

Check your previous years tax returns to see if you missed any deductions/credits. You could possibly have missed something and re-file the amended tax return and receive a refund. In my state families making under a certain amount have access to free tax accountants, it may be something to look into.

You can talk to your children's schools guidance counselor too. They area good reference for getting help.

[mrs]

Also, if you have a car payment/mortgage, you are allowed to change the payment date once a year by 20 days. Effectively pushing back that payment 20 days, it does not hurt your credit. That may help free up some money until you can get the help you need.

[geniebelle6901]

I don't remember using the word evil when referring to any FJ member on that particular thread, and yes I was considering leaving FJ. But here's why. Yes, I was feeling frustrated, but I was also dealing with medical issues. My doctor told me I needed a more invasive surgery on my L-ear to control my Meniere's Disease. I won't know how successful the surgery will be for a few more weeks. But I am feeling better. I'm not using that as an excuse, I'm just telling you what was going on.

But, let me make this perfectly clear, my medical condition had nothing to do with any posts I made here, even the ones where I jokingly referred to being "under the influence". I have always been fully aware of what I posted and stand by everything I've said. All of them I know are not popular to say the least. I do not apologize for anything I have posted unless I stated so in a post.

As far as acting Christ-like. I don't think any person is Christ-like 100% of the time. I let my emotions take over when I should STFU, but that particular gene seems to be missing in me. If I act in what some call an un-Christ-like manner after claiming to be a Christian, then yes, I am a hypocrite, but then again so is every Christian I know. I apologize for calling you a former cult member, that was uncalled for on my part.

Sorry to everyone for the TMI...this post was related to a PM between me and formergothardite before I left, and since I can't PM yet, I had to post it here.

[geniebelle6901]

I have deleted your "geniebelle" account (retaining your posts). I don't believe you were trying to hide your identity, but we do routinely ban for sockpuppets so please keep that in mind.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[geniebelle6901]

I want to stress that unless you approach your own or a mega church, I wouldn't expect much in the way of help from smaller churches. The economy has hit everyone hard, and in turn affects what's put in the collection plate. It's not that churches don't want to help. Many have chosen to give a little to many than give everything to a single person.

Nomi, have you looked into work at home jobs. I know they don't pay much, but maybe it could help a little.

[dawbs]

Nomi, you also may want to see if there are 'backpack programs' for the kids in your area.

My folks used to stuff backpacks...

http://backpacksforkids.org/

I don't know where you are but if you google 'backpack food program *STATE*', you may find them.

[Witsec7]

I want to stress that unless you approach your own or a mega church, I wouldn't expect much in the way of help from smaller churches. The economy has hit everyone hard, and in turn affects what's put in the collection plate. It's not that churches don't want to help. Many have chosen to give a little to many than give everything to a single person.

Nomi, have you looked into work at home jobs. I know they don't pay much, but maybe it could help a little.

I live in a town with a population of 50K, the local mega church (The Nazdome) does not participate in our food pantry program, nor does the mega in a neighboring town, nor do 5 megas I know of in the PDX metro area. Many of our local small churches cooperate with one larger church (RCC) which has refrigeration and storage. These 14 smaller churches are all part of our county food bank system and part of the Second Harvest network. Eight miles west of me 14 small churches participate in our local county food bank as well the Second Harvest network. They cooperate with a small rural school and a Grange for food storage. Two other churches with expansive kitchens, provide food prep facilities for 4 feeding programs we have in town. ALL of our local organic farmers (10 mile radius) also provide food to our food banks and pantries, as well as meal programs. The majority of the nonchain restaurants in my town also contribute to our pantries and feeding programs.

Each area is different on how their pantries and distribution networks operate and how they are affiliated with networks such as Second Harvest. I worked as a volunteer stocking at our food bank ware house and some of our provisions from Second Harvest was shipped to Oregon from Idaho and Missouri and Arkansas.

One should never rule out a resource when it comes to feeding ones family. My experience with megas is mostly negative for my geographic area. It may be different in other areas. An individual needs to make some calls and find out how their system operates and where the physical location of distribution points are located. My town has both emergency pantries and regular pantries.

[Austin]

I live in a town with a population of 50K, the local mega church (The Nazdome) does not participate in our food pantry program, nor does the mega in a neighboring town, nor do 5 megas I know of in the PDX metro area. Many of our local small churches cooperate with one larger church (RCC) which has refrigeration and storage. These 14 smaller churches are all part of our county food bank system and part of the Second Harvest network. Eight miles west of me 14 small churches participate in our local county food bank as well the Second Harvest network. They cooperate with a small rural school and a Grange for food storage. Two other churches with expansive kitchens, provide food prep facilities for 4 feeding programs we have in town. ALL of our local organic farmers (10 mile radius) also provide food to our food banks and pantries, as well as meal programs. The majority of the nonchain restaurants in my town also contribute to our pantries and feeding programs.

Each area is different on how their pantries and distribution networks operate and how they are affiliated with networks such as Second Harvest. I worked as a volunteer stocking at our food bank ware house and some of our provisions from Second Harvest was shipped to Oregon from Idaho and Missouri and Arkansas.

One should never rule out a resource when it comes to feeding ones family. My experience with megas is mostly negative for my geographic area. It may be different in other areas. An individual needs to make some calls and find out how their system operates and where the physical location of distribution points are located. My town has both emergency pantries and regular pantries.

Oh, do you have a Nazarene megachurch to grace your town, as well? We call ours "the compound". Besides being a mammoth eyesore, it also has a K-12 school, a cafe, a bookstore, a hair salon, and a Chuck-E-Cheese-style playland for the kiddies. Because that's what church and faith are all about, dontcha know. :D

[kaetrin]

I live in a town with a population of 50K, the local mega church (The Nazdome) does not participate in our food pantry program, nor does the mega in a neighboring town, nor do 5 megas I know of in the PDX metro area. Many of our local small churches cooperate with one larger church (RCC) which has refrigeration and storage. These 14 smaller churches are all part of our county food bank system and part of the Second Harvest network. Eight miles west of me 14 small churches participate in our local county food bank as well the Second Harvest network. They cooperate with a small rural school and a Grange for food storage. Two other churches with expansive kitchens, provide food prep facilities for 4 feeding programs we have in town. ALL of our local organic farmers (10 mile radius) also provide food to our food banks and pantries, as well as meal programs. The majority of the nonchain restaurants in my town also contribute to our pantries and feeding programs.

Each area is different on how their pantries and distribution networks operate and how they are affiliated with networks such as Second Harvest. I worked as a volunteer stocking at our food bank ware house and some of our provisions from Second Harvest was shipped to Oregon from Idaho and Missouri and Arkansas.

One should never rule out a resource when it comes to feeding ones family. My experience with megas is mostly negative for my geographic area. It may be different in other areas. An individual needs to make some calls and find out how their system operates and where the physical location of distribution points are located. My town has both emergency pantries and regular pantries.

Oh the NAZDOME! I suspected you lived in my home town, and now I know. :-)

[Witsec7]

Oh, do you have a Nazarene megachurch to grace your town, as well? We call ours "the compound". Besides being a mammoth eyesore, it also has a K-12 school, a cafe, a bookstore, a hair salon, and a Chuck-E-Cheese-style playland for the kiddies. Because that's what church and faith are all about, dontcha know. :D

Our Nazdome is relatively small, about 6k in membership. They illegally paved over a wetland to build an addition to their parking lot. They do not participate in our food bank system. The Mormon Stake does, and the Stake also provides transport for seniors who need to go to the food bank. Because our Nazdome is so small by some standards they only have a Starbucks. :lol:

[formergothardite]

I've thought a lot about this thread and how some people, even if both parents work, will still need government help, and I think I have been judgmental and coming from a place of privilage when thinking about this. All people deserve to have health care, it doesn't matter if they are a surfer dude that lives next to abba or if they are fundie mom who would never dream of working. No children should go hungry just because of their parents religious beliefs and it shouldn't be that only rich people should have kids. So this thread has changed my mind on those things made me look at it from a different perspective.

I still think abba is being hypocritical to whine about the surfer who doesn't want to work while she has said that even if she got a job she wouldn't take it because she doesn't want to work.