"Why I won't go to college or move out when I'm single"

[Aurora]

My folks weren't the patriarchal type either but they positively freaked when I made moves to leave home after college. Got a lot of lectures of how it was so much better for me to stay home, I wouldn't have bills to pay, and generally made me feel like the most selfish person in the world and that I was hurting them. I did leave but they got their wish with my two younger sisters, who did the SAHD thing until both left in their 30's when they got married. They both had jobs but they were expected to cook, clean, etc. It was not a happy life for either of them....my youngest sister fell into a serious depression because she felt so stuck and the other sister starting acting out in destructive ways. Both left by getting married, but I always wondered how they managed that because neither openly dated, had boyfriends. It was all of a sudden, they were engaged.

So when I read this young woman's blog, I really wonder what is going on in her head.

My parents were like that too. I had to up and say no, I want to leave and be independent. Earlier I had to rebel just to go to parties, see movies, etc.

I never got lectures about how other people would hate me, though! Maul, I'm SURE that is absolutely not the case!!!

[fluttershies]

I was homeless at 17 and vulnerably housed between 17 and 21 (in hostels etc). I was in full-time education and on welfare to support myself, and because of the welfare rules I couldn't work. As a result I have no work history and it makes life so much harder. Because of my depression-anxiety issues I find the prospect of getting on the career ladder, living alone etc very scary (currently living with my parents before university in September) and they do cause 3am panic attacks from time to time, but the difference is that I really WANT to be 'normal' and have a career and live independently before I marry and start a family. I can't imagine actively wanting to be an adult child like these SAHDs. Even if they marry (and we know that many Christians end up never marrying for whatever reason) then they are still under their husbands' commands, so they are rendered children still.

Even if I end up unmarried, I want to still have a fulfilling, independent adult life.

[moreorlessnu]

I know I'm guilty of it - I'm only in year 2/5 towards my undergraduate degree, but I know I'm going to be panicking in year 5 and applying to grad school and law school and hoping like mad to get in because I like school and as much as I hate the debt, I hate the idea of being on my own and failing miserably a whole lot more.

Yes, I know you didn't ask for my advice....

Don't worry about year 5 right now. Concentrate on the experience of being in your 2nd year. Next year, concentrate on the experience of being in your 3rd year. Your perspective may change by year 5, and the future may not seem so scary. The opportunities and job prospects available to you may also be better by then.

Being on your own, trying out a career, finding it's not right for you, switching careers, or deciding the right thing for you is to go to grad school or law school as a slightly older adult are all viable options, and none of them constitute "failing miserably". Sometimes, that is the path you take to end up where you are supposed to be.

I know quite a few people who took on massive debt to go to law school, and now can't find a job. at. all.

On the scale of "failing miserably" which is worse, to have taken on the massive debt, and not be able to find a job while still owing the debt, or to venture out on your career, and possibly fail (however you define your version of failure) while not taking on more debt?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Also remember - PLENTY of people are living happy and successful lives while not using their college degrees. People change, things happen.

That's NOT a suggestion to not go to college - heavens no. If you do it right, you learn a lot about how to learn, there, and of course that piece of paper will open doors. But don't ever feel guilty about changing your path in life.

Me? Seven years to get out of college (granted, I was working full time and taking less than a full load of classes, and that was as much as I could handle) and now I don't use any of it, turns out the work experience plus being bilingual is what helped. But I do not regret having a degree either, as a diploma (of any kind!) is required in all the jobs I've had. They just don't really care what it was in, anymore (they only look at my work experience, now I'm middle-aged).

Just... don't worry that you don't have it all figured out yet. I don't think anyone really does, and that's okay. :)

[Guest Anonymous]

surrogate head

That must be a new fundie phrase. :lol:

[Koala]

my mom is still harping about how the outside world is going to chew me up and spit me out. Every other lecture is about how people are going to hate me.

Now let's not get into the fear of men that was instilled in me either!

Honey they are mentally abusing you to keep you at home. I am a mother, and as much as I'd love to have my babies right here under my roof forever, I could never do it. I WANT them to go and have their own lives and families when they grow up...it's the natural way of things. As much as it will break my heart when they go, I plan to put a big smile on my face and cheer them on as they embrace all the happiness that life has to offer them. And honestly? It would break my heart even more if they didn't go. I don't want them to miss a thing.

I was out the door the minute I was legal, and it has been a hell of a ride but I don't regret a minute of it. I made my own way and my own choices, and that's so damn fulfilling.

Go. Don't let them hold you back. The world isn't nearly as scary as they are making it out to be...

[Maul the Koala]

Honey they are mentally abusing you to keep you at home. I am a mother, and as much as I'd love to have my babies right here under my roof forever, I could never do it. I WANT them to go and have their own lives and families when they grow up...it's the natural way of things. As much as it will break my heart when they go, I plan to put a big smile on my face and cheer them on as they embrace all the happiness that life has to offer them. And honestly? It would break my heart even more if they didn't go. I don't want them to miss a thing.

I was out the door the minute I was legal, and it has been a hell of a ride but I don't regret a minute of it. I made my own way and my own choices, and that's so damn fulfilling.

Go. Don't let them hold you back. The world isn't nearly as scary as they are making it out to be...

I'm leaving soon. And it was a long time in the making. The ironic thing was I've lived away from home temporarily (in less than ideal countries no less) and my parents in one of our screaming matches yelled at me that I came back confident from my last trip and what happened? They are completely oblivious. By the time I could get my stuff together to leave with the temporary bounces of confidence, I was beaten down again. I'm moving away for a great opportunity now and I know they're upset but that's how it goes. I'm not sticking around to live my life for them. I could write novels on the emotional abuse but I'm trying to not relive the past.

I can definitely sympathize with some of these girls (except this one, she's so unbelievably smug) because I know what it's like to be scared of the outside world. And I know what it's like to be terrified of men especially. I never understand why parents want that for their children. Isn't the whole point of raising a child to raise a productive member of society who is independent on their own?

[27randomscribbles]

Honey they are mentally abusing you to keep you at home. I am a mother, and as much as I'd love to have my babies right here under my roof forever, I could never do it. I WANT them to go and have their own lives and families when they grow up...it's the natural way of things. As much as it will break my heart when they go, I plan to put a big smile on my face and cheer them on as they embrace all the happiness that life has to offer them. And honestly? It would break my heart even more if they didn't go. I don't want them to miss a thing.

I was out the door the minute I was legal, and it has been a hell of a ride but I don't regret a minute of it. I made my own way and my own choices, and that's so damn fulfilling.

Go. Don't let them hold you back. The world isn't nearly as scary as they are making it out to be...

I know this wasn't directed at me (lurking) but your words really meant something to me. Thanks for saying this.

[mockingbird]

I know a few women who aren't fundy (to my knowledge) yet seem content to stay at home, not work or have a menial job (and not go to school), and basically be a SAHD waiting for life to happen to them. I think the speculations that SAHDs are scared of change and being independent are right on the money. That is certainly what I have observed with these women. I remember last year someone on a message board I am on went on a trip to Chicago with her mom. She was asking for help because her mom seemed to have some type of anxiety and didn't want to go yet seemed unable to take this trip without her mother or accept suggestions for how they could get a taxi or take the L. I thought it was really sad that she was turning 30 and couldn't even go on a day trip without a parent. I don't think she had anxiety issues either, just seemed really socially stunted (and from her other posts seems otherwise to be going nowhere in life, basically seems like a secular SAHD). I can get the anxiety but, although things like that can be scary, they are exciting too and can lead to great experiences and I think teens/young adults who might be a little more anxious should be encouraged to branch out a step at a time, rather than encouraged to never grow up. I do feel sorry for these girls in a way because I agree they haven't been raised with the tools a non-fundy girl might have that would help her break away if she needed to - I feel like they probably think this is their only option in life and honestly, like others have said, lack skills they would need to survive in the "real world". I don't feel sorry for them when they are being smug but perhaps that is a defense mechanism because they don't see any other options for themselves.

I do know a few SAHDs online. One in particular always seemed really well-spoken and I thought she could really do something "big". At least she is going to community college. It made me kind-of sad though that she doesn't really have any aspirations for herself. She sometimes seems a bit defensive and stubborn yet a bit of a people-pleaser - tightly-wound at times - so maybe she isn't as happy as she presents herself... who knows.

Edit: I also know/knew people who lived at home after college. However this was either to save money during grad school, or they had a real job, and they had social lives/did things by themselves. My neighbor moved back home after nursing school and lived with her parents until she got married. Yet she would go out with friends and never seemed socially stunted or anything - it seemed like she had a lot of freedom, she just wanted to save money. She and her husband were able to buy a two-story house when they got married because she lived at home. So, I do think it can be done in a healthy environment/without problems, if you need to or if that's what you want to do.

[Koala]

I know this wasn't directed at me (lurking) but your words really meant something to me. Thanks for saying this.

I'm glad. ;)

Good luck to you and the other Koala.

[Maul the Koala]

Good luck to you and the other Koala.

Thank you. Your support does mean a lot and I'm finally going to get out there and figure out this 'life' stuff. It's scary but at the same time so freeing. I know that now and I'm excited.

[Whydoyouask]

I have a dumb question about this persons blog. What is a 94% GPA?? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the GPA based on a 4.0 scale, its not a percent of anything?

Also having 7, yes SEVEN piano clients, seems a bit.. ummm, unprofitable to me. I doubt she is a $50/lesson teacher. Even if she was and each client came weekly that's $350/week for her 'studio' as she calls it.

Then we head back to the post on 1/9/12 where she sets a goal to post weekly. Massive failure at that- shes probably too busy washing the family underwear and socks.

Is anyone else confused about the blog vs real life?

[Pudicitia]

Yes, I know you didn't ask for my advice....

Don't worry about year 5 right now. Concentrate on the experience of being in your 2nd year. Next year, concentrate on the experience of being in your 3rd year. Your perspective may change by year 5, and the future may not seem so scary. The opportunities and job prospects available to you may also be better by then.

Being on your own, trying out a career, finding it's not right for you, switching careers, or deciding the right thing for you is to go to grad school or law school as a slightly older adult are all viable options, and none of them constitute "failing miserably". Sometimes, that is the path you take to end up where you are supposed to be.

I know quite a few people who took on massive debt to go to law school, and now can't find a job. at. all.

On the scale of "failing miserably" which is worse, to have taken on the massive debt, and not be able to find a job while still owing the debt, or to venture out on your career, and possibly fail (however you define your version of failure) while not taking on more debt?

I'd definitely second that! I did a four year undergrad and year two was definitely the worst. I didn't see how I could ever possibly be any use in the 'real world'. Fast forward a year after graduation and I'm working in a job I had never even considered but that turns out to fit my skills and interests really well, I'm living in a city that I spent year 2 swearing I would never live in (turns out it's awesome!), and I'm planning on starting a grad degree, having had some time in the 'real world' to realise that I can do it, I'm not just hiding from it, and that actually, I'm doing that degree and taking on that financial pressure because I know what I want to do with it and how it fits into my future plans. Of course, that's no guarantee that everything will go well in the future, but as moreorlessnu said, unless you're sure that it's what you want, you don't necessarily want to be taking on that debt. Sometimes really interesting paths in life can appear when you least expect them.

[Jezebel]

I have a dumb question about this persons blog. What is a 94% GPA?? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the GPA based on a 4.0 scale, its not a percent of anything?

I did a little bit of googlestalking. The medical transcription program she graduated from uses a percentage as the GPA, rather than the 4.0 scale regular colleges use.

Then we head back to the post on 1/9/12 where she sets a goal to post weekly. Massive failure at that- shes probably too busy washing the family underwear and socks.

Is anyone else confused about the blog vs real life?

She probably doesn't post weekly because she doesn't have anything to post about. She lives in a rural area, and spends most of her time doing routine chores, attending martial arts classes, teaching piano, working on whatever non-blog writing project she's got, and waiting for God to send her a husband. Mostly waiting for God to send her a husband.

She doesn't have a thought in her head that wasn't put there by her parents and their religion. She's not figuring out her own identity or questioning anything about her upbringing. She doesn't think too hard or too deeply about anything; if she has any inner conflicts or unmet longings, she reconciles them according to what she's been taught. She doesn't ask questions--about the world, about her beliefs, about who she is. She's never had to face any of the questioning, difficulties, and temptations Christian girls and young women face while growing up in secular society.

What, then, does she have to blog about, that hasn't already been done to death by other SAHDs?

[helloemi]

7 piano students is big money when you don't have any bills.

[gilora]

From the Facebook page

"Thanks for posting this Brooke. Headship is an interesting topic for discussion. I think it would be hard for a girl to be effectively under the headship of her father living in another town several hundred miles away. I don't know if I could say it's wrong, but I think it would be less than ideal for a girl move out if her father was providing sound headship. If the girl could move in with another family where the father could stand in as a "surrogate head" that might be a lot better"

"Surrogate head" --- heh, heh, heh. Can I get some of that?

Stay-at-home-daughterhood is a parenting fail. The world is a big scary place and while it's normal to have some trepidation on leaving home, these women should have been prepared for independence.

[SisiL78]

I know I mentioned this on another string but a SAHD can have advanced education too.

I know two sisters, one who is 33 (Let's call her "D") and "E" who is 37.

"D" has a masters in Accounting and a CPA. She got her undergrad living in a dorm a few hours from home. But went home directly after that, got her Masters locally and has stayed home every since. She has ZERO coping skills and her father treats her like a very very dumb child. She's been through quite a few different jobs in accounting most likely because she never learned to interact with her peers very well and can't cope with new situations or adjusting. I assume that she's fine at classroom learning, but the real world is a mystery to her. Daddy only started letting her drive herself to places other than work when she was 30. He bought a new car and she got his old Cadillac. She is still unable to go to a gas station and fill up the tank, and sometimes he still drops her off someplace and waits like some creepy chauffeur in the parking lot. E has a LIS masters but is so socially stunted that she will never find employment, D might have issues but she's in a better situation.

Here's the thing, all the money they earn is 'invested' by Daddy. They are on restrictive allowances. I've known both for nearly 8 years and in that time haven't seen their clothing change, I could literally list every item they both own with less trouble than listing my own clothing. Even when D dared to buy some stuff at Filene's on clearance it was immediately returned. Its nuts. She's been convinced that she's "saving". I'm not sure for what, but when you're in your 30s and are wearing the jeans and shorts from your high school years there's something wrong (and it's obvious she was about 3 inches shorter in high school than she is now).

Its heartbreaking. Most of her former friends have given up on her. Basically just one other woman and I even contact her and try to drag her out of the house. Its so hard. Usually she's 'busy' which means watching reruns of the Bachelorette with her Mom or cleaning her room. And when we do get her and E out its tough because they don't have money for a meal or for coffee (and won't let us pay for them).

The really sad part of it all is that they used to both think that some prince would come and marry them and their lives would become perfect. I'm not sure which is sadder, the time when they had that fantasy or the obvious realizations they are coming to right now that they will never meet anyone. The tragic part is that D could support both of them with the job she's in. It doesn't require much growth on her part and she's probably making 35 to 40k. But, she has nothing saved up because her father takes all her earnings. I really really really hope he is investing the money and its in her name, but I have my doubts.

Its so very frustrating to see human lives wasted like this. Watching reruns of reality shows with their parents instead of pursuing a social life, never leaving the house or doing anything very exciting or having real friends. In a way the fundie SAHD are in a better place, a lot of them seem to at least have creative hobbies like music or crafts, or blog writing. Not that they are in a good place either.

Argh, I wish there was something like "Adult protective services" where you could report adults who have been emotionally imprisoned by their families.

[dairyfreelife]

"Surrogate head" --- heh, heh, heh. Can I get some of that?

Stay-at-home-daughterhood is a parenting fail. The world is a big scary place and while it's normal to have some trepidation on leaving home, these women should have been prepared for independence.

That's the thing though-they aren't because their parents have instilled the fear in them that because they lack a penis, they can't be anything more than baby breeders and house cleaners. They are taught to be under the authority of a man at all times because they are taught they are incapable of decision making, yet are also made to believe this was all their idea to be a SAHD and under male headship and all that nonsense when it's not their idea at all. The world is scary to anyone and living on your own is too, but after a short bit, it's actually great. Yes, it's tiring and hard, but life's hard. I still would prefer to live on my own. Plenty of young women and men live at home while going to school and working and there is not a thing wrong with that. It saves many college aged children lots of money to do that and makes college cheaper.

I personally love the girl saying she doesn't sit around and do nothing. She cooks meals and does laundry and cleans the house. Yeah, me too while working two jobs and being a full time college student. My house isn't perfect and neat when I have classes because I'm so busy, but it's not filthy either. I would be bored out of my mind without a job or college and taking care of my parents' home.

[nokidsmom]

I never understand why parents want that for their children. Isn't the whole point of raising a child to raise a productive member of society who is independent on their own?

I know. My folks really reversed themselves once it became apparent that their little girl was aiming to leave the nest. Up till then, they had no problems with the idea of that someday I may leave and have to take care of myself. They talked about that and encouraged me to do things like work a job, or go somewhere on my own, because you know, they weren't expecting me to hang around forever. They expected me to work my way through college not just because it was necessary (it was) but also I was an adult and should learn what it takes to support my education as a taste of what it would take to eventually support myself. I think they were OK with teaching the lessons, but were not prepared for the reality, when that far off "someday" finally came. Now all of a sudden, they realize that their little girl is not going to live under their own roof, under their control, where they can see and know all that she's doing, but out there being an adult, doing adult things, and OMG, those adult things might just involve men, which I think was their real fear.

Sorry to rant, but apparently this thread really strikes a chord with me. This SAHD thing really makes me see how my life could have turned out and it's not a pretty picture. My SAHD sisters were miserable and the emotional hold that my parents had on them still continues even though both are out of the house and married now. My folks are waaaay tooo involved in their lives and it's affected both their marriages. It's really an unhealthy thing.

[Third]

Don't a lot of typical parents stunt their children by not letting them get out in the world. People in their 20s, 30s etc still living at home, not paying many if any bills, no long term goals to get out of the house, still supported by mom and dad...puttering around really not doing anything...

[SisiL78]

Don't a lot of typical parents stunt their children by not letting them get out in the world. People in their 20s, 30s etc still living at home, not paying many if any bills, no long term goals to get out of the house, still supported by mom and dad...puttering around really not doing anything...

Definitely!!! Its not just the domain of the Christian Fundies. Parents who indulge their children are, in some ways, even worse because they build up the expectation that great things will happen and life will be perfect while creating a human being incapable of even basic household chores. At least those fundy SAHD could probably find service oriented jobs and take care of their cooking/cleaning if they were really forced to (and they certainly know how to stretch a buck, so poverty wouldn't exactly crush them). Even the parents who teach their children that they can't take just any job but must take the best job, well.... they aren't qualified and never get it. So they rely on handouts from Mom and Dad and still live like kids. I just don't understand how anyone can do this to their children, its abuse plain and simple.

"D" who I mentioned above has been made to fear the world as scary and lonely. She's especially terrified of the loneliness of not having Mom and Dad right there next to her at all times making her every decision. She truly does not understand how we can all cope with living on our own and making our own lives work. I sometimes wish I could live inside her head for a few days and understand her better.

Anyways, if you're taught from an early age about all the things wrong with the "outside world" then you'll fear it. There are A LOT of things that could be improved in my life and the lives of anyone on this blog. I'm sure we've had anxieties, panics, loneliness, insecurities etc.... And if someone was to only hear about the bad things in independent life (and even if those descriptions were 100 percent truthful) then anyone would be terrified. The thing is that there are good things. The loneliness is countered with chats over coffee with you BFF. Bumping into an acquaintance who happens to have an extra ticket to a fancy fundraiser and would you like to go with her. Its the pride in accomplishing something yourself. Even finding on craigslist that piece of Ikea furniture that I wanted but couldn't afford and managing to take it apart, transport it, and putting it back together in my apartment by myself created a certain sense of accomplishment and joy. I know this is corny, but what they are missing is the simple joy of living a life where you have your things and your accomplishments as well as your own problems to solve. I really pity anyone who doesn't have this in their lives. Having a life where you wear the colors daddy/hubby likes and not the ones you prefer or not doing anything new because its not ladylike is just plain depressing. And its tragic because its chosen and avoidable. It's one thing when bad things happen to you, its another when you choose to have those bad things in your life and eschew any possibility of having it any other way.

[fundifugee]

I did a little bit of googlestalking. The medical transcription program she graduated from uses a percentage as the GPA, rather than the 4.0 scale regular colleges use.

She probably doesn't post weekly because she doesn't have anything to post about. She lives in a rural area, and spends most of her time doing routine chores, attending martial arts classes, teaching piano, working on whatever non-blog writing project she's got, and waiting for God to send her a husband. Mostly waiting for God to send her a husband.

She doesn't have a thought in her head that wasn't put there by her parents and their religion. She's not figuring out her own identity or questioning anything about her upbringing. She doesn't think too hard or too deeply about anything; if she has any inner conflicts or unmet longings, she reconciles them according to what she's been taught. She doesn't ask questions--about the world, about her beliefs, about who she is. She's never had to face any of the questioning, difficulties, and temptations Christian girls and young women face while growing up in secular society.

What, then, does she have to blog about, that hasn't already been done to death by other SAHDs?

This. Might as well change the title of the blog to "Why I've decided to be mindless and boring with nothing to think and talk about except for housekeeping and baby stuff; and if I have more than two neurons to rub together and get bored with that, I will write nasty, hateful posts about politics and other women, like Zsu and Leah".

[fundifugee]

BTW - not crapping on SAHMs, I am one part -time but boy am I glad to have stuff to think about, discuss and read beyond the Bible and household chores.

[Defrauding Errday]

I know. My folks really reversed themselves once it became apparent that their little girl was aiming to leave the nest. Up till then, they had no problems with the idea of that someday I may leave and have to take care of myself. They talked about that and encouraged me to do things like work a job, or go somewhere on my own, because you know, they weren't expecting me to hang around forever. They expected me to work my way through college not just because it was necessary (it was) but also I was an adult and should learn what it takes to support my education as a taste of what it would take to eventually support myself. I think they were OK with teaching the lessons, but were not prepared for the reality, when that far off "someday" finally came. Now all of a sudden, they realize that their little girl is not going to live under their own roof, under their control, where they can see and know all that she's doing, but out there being an adult, doing adult things, and OMG, those adult things might just involve men, which I think was their real fear.

Sorry to rant, but apparently this thread really strikes a chord with me. This SAHD thing really makes me see how my life could have turned out and it's not a pretty picture. My SAHD sisters were miserable and the emotional hold that my parents had on them still continues even though both are out of the house and married now. My folks are waaaay tooo involved in their lives and it's affected both their marriages. It's really an unhealthy thing.

The thread strikes a chord with me too. I'm graduating in a couple months and I'm going to have to move home since I don't have a job lined up like the majority of my friends. My parents seem really thrilled that they'll have one of their kids back home to help around the house (my sister is also in college and my teen brothers still live at home). I have to keep reminding them that I don't plan on living at home for very long and that I want to move out as soon as possible. They were never all that happy that my sister and I went to school hundreds of miles away instead of going to the local city schools. I worry sometimes that I'll become like these SAHDs. :?

[DCmilly]

"I worry sometimes that I'll become like these SAHDs. :?"

I don't think you will. I just got a job in my parents' hometown and am moving in with them for a few months while figuring out a new long term living arrangement. I think that as long as you have open communication with your parents and talk to them about how you are an adult and cannot be treated like a teen while living at home it will be ok. I had a talk with my family and we both set some ground rules for how it would be while I was living at home. Maybe such a conversation would help?