FIsh With Trish Shaming Women Over Their Clothing Choices

[JesusFightClub]

sometimes showing your boobies helps others out

This shall be my new "life verse". :dance:

In sum, we have to dress the part, even if it's a very homely part, if we wanna be taken seriously.

MamaJuneBug, I sort of get what you're saying. I don't know what capris are, but I imagine them to be some type of butt-enhancing getup. And the clash of colours sounds, um, intriguing :mrgreen:

Like, on the very few occasions I've been to church as an adult for, say,christenings, weddings, funerals and the like I change my clothing style (which leans more towards Tank Girl than it does fundie) and put on a suit and all that crap. I feel daft but it would be rude not to do it. So this woman was being kind of rude.

Having said that, I think the discriminating men would just find another excuse. They don't want women to do these services so it would be they held the plate wrong or something. (Excuse my ignorance!) Basically what Bananacat said. A woman can't win, if a man dressed inappropriately it would just be that particular man, but a woman who dresses inappropriately is thought of as representing All Women.

[apple1]

"Uh-oh. Someone's totally going to get punched in the face at some point should they choose to continue witnessing in this fashion." It seems like they are mostly limited to picking on women in service jobs who don't have the leeway to actually say what they think of their obnoxious customers.

THAT. And, yes, people in those jobs can and will get fired for "talk back" to customers er "guests".

[debrand]

She didn't post my comment thanking her for convincing people to leave Christianity for atheism. :roll:

[apple1]

I blew it last week when wearing a stretchy lace tank under an open blouse. It appeared very modest and not only covered the girls but went almost up to my throat. So I was a little surprised when catching someone's run away toddler that baby girl had pulled the top on my tank down to my waist. :shock: Everyone at swimming lessons got to see the girls in their lacy bra covered in DDD glory. :o If anyone had come to tell me that my boobies were hanging out for all to see I might have just have thought F' it and took the damn top off and sat there in my bra. As it was 3 other larger chested ladies came to ask where I got such a cute bra, so sometimes showing your boobies helps others out.

A baby or a toddler hanging onto one's clothing can make even the most "modest" woman "immodest". I am not particularly well endowed, and I had about forgotten my own babies doing this on occasion. I am a Grandma for the first time recently, and find myself dealing with this again. :oops:

[apple1]

MamaJuneBug, I sort of get what you're saying. I don't know what capris are, but I imagine them to be some type of butt-enhancing getup...

Actually, Capris are just long pants with a few inches cut off the bottom, making them end at about calf length, i.e. about halfway between the knee and the ankle (some variability on length). Nothing any more immodest or butt-enhancing about capris than ordinary slacks. As with slacks, correct size and proper fit is everything.

I am curious-- where do you live that you don't know what capris are? (not intended to be a snarky question)

Around here, a lot of adult women choose capris as a less-baring-than-shorts but still cooler-than-full-length-slacks summer alternative. I have a few pairs myself.

[Koala]

sometimes showing your boobies helps others out.

This made my day :lol:

[thoughtful]

:character-beavisbutthead:

+ INFINITY!

Glad you liked it, notTHATkind.

If you listen very closely, Beavis is saying "Thoughtful said 'box,'" and Beavis is replying "Heheheheheh."

[Swamptribe]

I someone made a big deal about cleavage, I would be so sarcastic and make a huge deal out of it. "What? A boob?!?!?! I think that's the seventh sign of the Apocalypse! Everybody run for cover - a boob has been spotted in public! It's such a horrible tragedy, I bet it will make the national news. I can see the headlines now 'Human Breast Exposed in Public; Thousands Dead' What a tragedy."

Ugh, sometimes I just want to shake these people and tell them "Body parts exist; get over it already".

Ha, you could react ala Erin Brockavich "They're breasts" then shake them in her face. Maybe adding "God gave them to me, aren't they nice."

[Sunnichick31]

I am curious-- where do you live that you don't know what capris are? (not intended to be a snarky question)

Around here, a lot of adult women choose capris as a less-baring-than-shorts but still cooler-than-full-length-slacks summer alternative. I have a few pairs myself.

She could just call them something different. My grandmother calls them pedal-pushers whereas I say capris. I'm sure she's heard of the style, even if she isn't familiar with the terminology.

[MamaJunebug]

Hey, bananacat. :) You and I have been around here together for a long time, so please know that what I'm about to say is said with gentle irony and a bit of sadness.

You wrote,

To me, this come across as saying that women only deserve equality if they conform to what men want from them. In reality, the men (and other women) who judge this woman unqualified based on her clothing are in the wrong here. It is not this woman's job to personally make sure that others don't act bigoted towards her. Yes, they will act like asses toward her because of the clothing, but they are wrong to do it and you are supporting their wrongness by blaming the woman instead.

Do you have any idea how many times superficial things like this have been used to deny equality? "Oh, we can't hire those people because they don't speak properly (and properly is defined as whatever the powerful people use)" Or during the 80s when women had to wear manly clothes to have any chance of success because feminine clothing was considered and indicator of inferiority. Yes, people do judge by superficial qualities and it may seem inevitable, but it is still wrong to blame the person who doesn't conform.

To answer your second-paragraph questions first. Do I have any idea about being denied equality? Ohhhhh, yes. I turned 60 last year, dove. I was in college studying my field when the ratio was still 3 men to 1 woman. I was the second woman to begin work as a supervisor, who was not an engineer (engineers automatically are not union-represented by some vow in the engineering code), when I was hired in at the large corporation where I worked for most of my career.

Come to think of it, when I was hired in, there were exactly two female engineers among the 500 or so engineers the company employed.

I won't go into the specifics of the b.s. I endured as a woman in management, both from men and women. Some of the women had worked their way into supervisory positions, some were denied that promotion. Believe me, I know what it's like to have one's wardrobe, deportment, ability to hold her liquor, number and types of alcoholic drinks she ordered, and too-much-to-include-here scrutinized and belittled.

If I teetotaled during a lunch, I was a ligthweight. If I had red wine, I must have been frustrated from the night before.

That's just one of the many examples i could give. I don't wanna lose my audience. ;)

Getting passed over for promos because "honey, we know you're gonna get married and pregnant and quit"? Been there.

Oh, lard, I just thought about at least 2 of my black female colleagues who were .... no, you don't wanna know. Trust me, I don't know exactly how many were denied equality for superficial things, but I have a danged good idea.

But this is not about me or them, this is about the nice lady in the colorful cazh outfit passing the plate at Saint Stodgy Lutheran yesterday. :D

She does not aspire to be a pastor. AFAIK we women have voting rights at the congregation (iif I find out we don't, I will resign my membership) so she's not working for that.

Have you ever heard the advice to ambitious people in the workplace: "Don't dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want"? That's what dismayed me about my friend's delightful attire.

A person who wants to be taken seriously by the powers that be still, in 2011 in the mostly free USA, needs to dress in such a way that indicates, "I want to be taken seriously. I might even want to be where you are, on a similar level."

I don't know this for sure, but I imagine it was a little dicey when the folks at this congreagtion first said, "Shall we include women as plate-passers?" (they're not ushers, in that nobody seats anybody else) Questions were probably very sincerely asked, "Is this ok, given the official position of the LCMS on women in positions of leadership?" Because usher teams are expected to be there to help the pastor keep things swimming if, say, there's an emergency or a disruption amongst the congregation.

In some congregations, being an usher and being a communion assistant are the same. Very big deal, being a communion assistant. The offical pos, AFAIK, in the LCMS is that women shouldn't be behind the communion rail.

So I'm rambling. My point is not to condemn the lady. My point is to say, "I wish she'd worn a dress, or jeans and a jacket.

"Because by appearing up there, very informal in a very formal setting, she just looked out of place.

"And all these years, TPTB have said, 'Women are out of place if they are in a leadership position in church.'

"So to appear so very casual just gave the appearance of confirming that.

"Here's another way of putting it: If you want to be considered equals by folks who have the power to declare you equal, you need to appear to be their equals. And looks matter. Clothing does say a lot about the wearer."

And this brings me to my final guess about my nice sister-in-Christ yesterday: She probably doesn't share my dissatisfaction with the attitude toward women, in LCMS officialese. So for her to appear in a bright, very casual outfit that bunched up around her slim butt (another reason for me to turn green with envy, LOL!) was no big thing for her.

For me, it was. That's all I'm saying, I bet I've lost everybody but the most diligent readers and ... I'm out. Said my piece. Peace be with you. :)

NB: I don't have a problem with her "color blocked" outfit. Indeed, I thought it was delightful, I am a color fiend. Not sure why I was so detailed in my initial explanation.

NB2: I guess they weren't capris, if capris come halfway down the shin. They ended right at the middle of her knee. Now, if I were looking for a reason to dislike the lady, that right there would be it. They ended at the middle of her knee and her knees still looked good! :mrgreen: <--me, green with envy! :)

[snarkykitty]

And then point to the immodest area and with a horrified look, say "Uh -Oh"

Is she four years old? Isn't pointing considered rude? Is she using sign language? If not, why can't she open her big trap to say what she's really thinking instead of playing games? Use. Your. Words. (Not that she has any place to say about what someone else is wearing). I just can't imagine some random adult woman pointed at my boobs "with a horrified look" and said, "uh-oh."

The fast-food place she went to is KNOWN for having skating waitresses. Her "horror" is not genuine. She knew that they wore skates and skirts/shorts. Sure, put a skating WAITRESS in a long-assed black tarp and see what happens.

And if I never read the phrase "stumbling block" again, it will be too soon.

[Koala]

And then point to the immodest area and with a horrified look, say "Uh -Oh"

Is she four years old? Isn't pointing considered rude? Is she using sign language? If not, why can't she open her big trap to say what she's really thinking instead of playing games? Use. Your. Words. (Not that she has any place to say about what someone else is wearing). I just can't imagine some random adult woman pointed at my boobs "with a horrified look" and said, "uh-oh."

The fast-food place she went to is KNOWN for having skating waitresses. Her "horror" is not genuine. She knew that they wore skates and skirts/shorts. Sure, put a skating WAITRESS in a long-assed black tarp and see what happens.

And if I never read the phrase "stumbling block" again, it will be too soon.

I can't stand the whole "little girl" act these fundie women put on. They make themselves look like complete idiots.

I can just see Trish pointing and staring at the poor waitress with a fake "wide eyed wonder". :o Makes me sick.

[Austin]

Having certain. . . sensibilities. . . is not the same thing as discriminating against people. There are a lot of people that I see and I think to myself, "What the heck was he/she thinking?" regarding their appearance of clothing choices. I don't attempt to "correct" them because it is truly not my business, and reasonable people know this and abide by this.

And who knows? I'm sure I've had days where people wondered what I was thinking when I was getting dressed or doing my hair :D

For instance, and this will not be popular, but I do not like tatoos. Sorry, I just don't care for them and have never seen one that I thought was pretty enough or interesting enough to consider doing that to my body for life. That's just my opinion for myself, so obviously, the solution is for me to never get a tatoo.

But since people, of all ages and genders, routinely have tatoos and I see them often out in public, and I admit, I sometimes think to myself that I find it regrettable that person made that choice. But clearly, it was their choice, and that's that. I have friends with tatoos and I do not think less of them (or think about their tatoo at all, actually). My sensibilities are my sensibilities, as are everyone else's, and we are all entitled to them.

I just took MJB's story in that light. If people say they never look at another person, for whatever reason, and wonder what the heck that outfit or look is about, I just wouldn't believe them.

[MamaJunebug]

Hey, Austin, thanks. Yeah - it was something like that, when I saw the outfit yesterday.

All this said, I'd've avoided this topic if I'd gone to fish with trish website first.

Honest to gosh, what a .... le sigh. I just wish I'd gone to her website first. I'd've never read another word, and certainly would've expressed my dismay with my s-i-C in some other venue.

(So much for having said my piece, but Trish, honestly? Phew....)

[Rosa]

You know, I do worry about keeping "the girls" covered (and DUDE swimming with little kids is the worst. My son used to grab my throat with a deathgrip and then stick his little feet down into the top of my suit and push, when he was a toddler) and I appreciate a quiet "i see yr bra, girl" when things are getting out of hand.

But if someone pointed at my chest and said "uh-oh" my first thought would be that I had dropped something red on my natural food-catching shelf, there, or that something had just completely given way (like the time I was playing volleyball in a front-clasp bra, back when I was a size they made those for.)

[CelticGoddess]

Let's see how brave she is when confronting a woman lawyer, stockbroker or anyone else whose livelihoods aren't contingent on putting up with little bluenoses like her. Punching her in the face, while satisfying to the puncher, wouldn't do much good. It would merely reinforce her belief that any dissent is persecution. My reaction would be to accept the tract then march to the nearest wastebasket while making sure that I was in plain sight of her the whole time. If I was pissed off enough, I would rip it in half while I was at it.

Even better, if you were chewing gum at the time, you could say "thank you, I was needing some paper" and spit your gum out into the tract. I can just imagine the look of horror on "Uh-Oh's" face!

[Pearl]

If it weren't so awful, I'd find these blogger girls situation funny. They walk around informing other women that they are being immodest. Perhaps we should stick them in a country where they would be seen as the whores of Babylon.

It is very kind of that girl to inform the skating waitress that her butt was hanging out, I'm sure skating waitress thought - oh crap - I had no idea, I'm going to run home now and correct the problem.

Interestingly enough, I very rarely notice if people are dressing inappropriately or not. I usually only pay attention when the person in question is doing something to draw attention to themselves.

Maybe we should go up to fundies and tell them that their being immodest or something.

[Koala]

Even better, if you were chewing gum at the time, you could say "thank you, I was needing some paper" and spit your gum out into the tract. I can just imagine the look of horror on "Uh-Oh's" face!

Love it! She took one picture of a bunch of tracts people had tossed in a trash can. Said she thought about digging them out. :roll: She likes to give out the ones that look like $$$. I bet you anything she leaves them as tips.

[ladypuglover]

Miss uh-oh would have died of shock of the uh-oh from today's swimming lesson. I am wearing a high necked sleave-less that is cut very full and doesn't even show my ankles. Well some little man about 3 came up behind me and threw my skirts way up high showing everyone I was wearing my sunday pair(very holey) and proceeded to hide under my falling skirts. All I felt was a whoosh on my backside then little hands wrapping around my knees. I was horrified again at the pool in less than 6 days. Thankfully on about 7-8 people saw that show but I think tomorrow I will be wearing a suit of armor tot he pool. :shock:

[Witsec6]

Hey, Austin, thanks. Yeah - it was something like that, when I saw the outfit yesterday.

All this said, I'd've avoided this topic if I'd gone to fish with trish website first.

Honest to gosh, what a .... le sigh. I just wish I'd gone to her website first. I'd've never read another word, and certainly would've expressed my dismay with my s-i-C in some other venue.

(So much for having said my piece, but Trish, honestly? Phew....)

I figured it was something like that. You took this as a place to vent without realizing who we were snarking! I disagree with your reasoning, but I understand your reaction ("Girl, what were you thinking!?" as Austin put it).

Reading further into Trish's blog, I came across a video of her paying for the person behind her in line at the Drive-Thru and handing a tract to the cashier. I was horrified by so many aspects of this video I can barely start, but... here goes!

fishwithtrish.blogspot.com/2011/05/encouraging-email.html

1) She was getting her son a BUCKET OF 8 PIECES OF FRIED CHICKEN FOR LUNCH

2) She answered her phone while talking to the cashier and paying for her meal AND DIDN'T EVEN APOLOGIZE

3) She sounded so smug at the end of the video, but of course she was only doing it to "teach others" how to hand a tract to a cashier. Totally not self-glorifying at all, girls! It's just a teaching video. Because the idea is so complex that we need a video.

4) She filmed the encounter at all.

5) She was handing out TRACTS

6) The cashier violated the privacy of the person behind her by telling her how much his order was.

Even if you are OK with handing out tracts and "saving" people, you should probably try to be a bit more modest about it. This was supposed to be some covert nice thing, but by filming it she made it like those "random acts of kindness" people organize. They're NOT RANDOM if you PLAN them, people!

[thoughtful]

Reading further into Trish's blog, I came across a video of her paying for the person behind her in line at the Drive-Thru and handing a tract to the cashier. I was horrified by so many aspects of this video I can barely start, but... here goes!

fishwithtrish.blogspot.com/2011/05/encouraging-email.html

1) She was getting her son a BUCKET OF 8 PIECES OF FRIED CHICKEN FOR LUNCH

2) She answered her phone while talking to the cashier and paying for her meal AND DIDN'T EVEN APOLOGIZE

3) She sounded so smug at the end of the video, but of course she was only doing it to "teach others" how to hand a tract to a cashier. Totally not self-glorifying at all, girls! It's just a teaching video. Because the idea is so complex that we need a video.

4) She filmed the encounter at all.

5) She was handing out TRACTS

6) The cashier violated the privacy of the person behind her by telling her how much his order was.

You forgot to mention:

7. She clapped her hands with glee while her car was moving. Great driving technique there.

Not sure I should have watched that -- now I can picture the face and hear the voice that goes with the UH OH! That somehow makes it even more annoying to me.

[ladypuglover]

I figured it was something like that. You took this as a place to vent without realizing who we were snarking! I disagree with your reasoning, but I understand your reaction ("Girl, what were you thinking!?" as Austin put it).

Reading further into Trish's blog, I came across a video of her paying for the person behind her in line at the Drive-Thru and handing a tract to the cashier. I was horrified by so many aspects of this video I can barely start, but... here goes!

fishwithtrish.blogspot.com/2011/05/encouraging-email.html

1) She was getting her son a BUCKET OF 8 PIECES OF FRIED CHICKEN FOR LUNCH

2) She answered her phone while talking to the cashier and paying for her meal AND DIDN'T EVEN APOLOGIZE

3) She sounded so smug at the end of the video, but of course she was only doing it to "teach others" how to hand a tract to a cashier. Totally not self-glorifying at all, girls! It's just a teaching video. Because the idea is so complex that we need a video.

4) She filmed the encounter at all.

5) She was handing out TRACTS

6) The cashier violated the privacy of the person behind her by telling her how much his order was.

Even if you are OK with handing out tracts and "saving" people, you should probably try to be a bit more modest about it. This was supposed to be some covert nice thing, but by filming it she made it like those "random acts of kindness" people organize. They're NOT RANDOM if you PLAN them, people!

What a cowardly way to give a person a tract. If that had been me I would have chased her down and threw the money at her feet along with the tracts and said no thanks, my God doesn't approve of your unChristian teachings. What a bad and nasty piece of work this is.

[JesusFightClub]

Thanks for the explanation, apple1! I had imagined them as a sort of shorts which really outlined the butt zone.

Sunnichick is right, what you describe I know as pedalpushers. I'm from the UK but for all I know this has nothing to do with it...I am hopelessly ignorant on all matters fashionable :oops:

[thoughtful]

The video with the dog carrying tracts in a vest is obnoxious on so many levels.

[dcmhejbl62]

MamaJunebug, your original story actually made me happy. I LOVE it when someone defies unwritten dress codes, or has tattoos, or piercings, or wild hair and makeup, and serves as an usher or sings in the choir or in any other way holds a position of "responsibility" in church. Absolutely love it whenever someone can smash those stereotypes.

You know the saying that dogs start to look like their owners (or vice verse, lol)? Well, give us a few years of membership, and church-goers all start to look like each other, even in loving and accepting churches not normally concerned with official dress and behavior codes. We NEED people different than us to walk in and shock everybody sometimes. People with different backgrounds, tastes, styles, sensibilities, ideologies, all supporting one another in our spiritual journey... that's what church is SUPPOSED to look like. ; )