Jewish Fundie Question

[Peas n carrots]

My neighborhood fundies are Orthodox Jews. Generally they keep to themselves, but there is one odd thing I've noticed over the years we have lived here. Every sabbath, there is a group of Bar Mitzvah aged boys (all early teens and adorably awkward) who ride my train and will go around asking various riders if they are Jewish. This has happened to me once, and this happens to my husband on a regular basis. One time I overheard them asking is question to someone who answered "yes, they are Jewish" and they boys started asking him if he was going to services at night, if he had a bar mitzvah, and basically chasing after the guy as he departed the train and followed him to his car.

 

My husband has heard that basically if you answer the kids that you are Jewish, you are supposed to give them money, but we aren't sure if that is true or not.

 

So, my question to the Jewish FJ'ers on here is...have you ever heard of this kind of thing happening with young teenage kids? If so, what is the purpose behind it?

[ilovetchotchkes]

My neighborhood fundies are Orthodox Jews. Generally they keep to themselves, but there is one odd thing I've noticed over the years we have lived here. Every sabbath, there is a group of Bar Mitzvah aged boys (all early teens and adorably awkward) who ride my train and will go around asking various riders if they are Jewish. This has happened to me once, and this happens to my husband on a regular basis. One time I overheard them asking is question to someone who answered "yes, they are Jewish" and they boys started asking him if he was going to services at night, if he had a bar mitzvah, and basically chasing after the guy as he departed the train and followed him to his car.

My husband has heard that basically if you answer the kids that you are Jewish, you are supposed to give them money, but we aren't sure if that is true or not.

So, my question to the Jewish FJ'ers on here is...have you ever heard of this kind of thing happening with young teenage kids? If so, what is the purpose behind it?

I've never heard of this. I know that Chabad will sometimes drive around on the street in a "mitzvah" mobile getting folks to lay tefflin or join in a minyan, but this doesn't sound like it as its teenage boys.

Maybe they were just being idiotic teenage boys, i mean G-d knows, teenage boys acting like idiots is no new thing. :)

[Beeks]

I've never heard of this. I know that Chabad will sometimes drive around on the street in a "mitzvah" mobile getting folks to lay tefflin or join in a minyan, but this doesn't sound like it as its teenage boys.

Maybe they were just being idiotic teenage boys, i mean G-d knows, teenage boys acting like idiots is no new thing. :)

Yeah to me it sounds like a chabad thing - trying to get fellow Jews to do a mitzvah. I have seen children/teens doing it before, though usually they are joined by one or more adults. I've never heard of the asking for money thing.

[Kelya]

Yeah, I got stopped once near a big Jewish university and was asked if I was Jewish. I'm most assuredly not (straight out of Catholic Ireland, thanks), but they asked me if I'd done research, was I really sure, etc. I said yes and left. I was surprised they approached women, since they all looked very Orthodox. It was around Succos so I'm sure I'd have gotten an invitation to their shelter or some branches or something if I'd said yes. I didn't give them money and they didn't ask for any.

[pomology]

My neighborhood fundies are Orthodox Jews. Generally they keep to themselves, but there is one odd thing I've noticed over the years we have lived here. Every sabbath, there is a group of Bar Mitzvah aged boys (all early teens and adorably awkward) who ride my train and will go around asking various riders if they are Jewish. This has happened to me once, and this happens to my husband on a regular basis. One time I overheard them asking is question to someone who answered "yes, they are Jewish" and they boys started asking him if he was going to services at night, if he had a bar mitzvah, and basically chasing after the guy as he departed the train and followed him to his car.

My husband has heard that basically if you answer the kids that you are Jewish, you are supposed to give them money, but we aren't sure if that is true or not.

So, my question to the Jewish FJ'ers on here is...have you ever heard of this kind of thing happening with young teenage kids? If so, what is the purpose behind it?

Yeah, never heard of this. It strikes me as really, really weird for multiple reasons that I'm too lazy to go into.

I, for one, would certainly not give such people money.

[Buzzard]

They likely will ask you/him to lay Tfillin or come to shabbos dinner. Unlikely money beg.

[ladyamylynn]

I remember this from when I lived in NYC. I worked at a wine store in Manhattan and quite a few of my co-workers were Jewish. Sometimes these kids would come into the store and ask if anyone was Jewish. My co-worker Bert, and elderly Jewish gentleman, shooed them out and said that yes, they were asking for donations. It only happened a couple of times and if I recall correctly, near the holy days. It might just be a regional phenomenon?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I remember this from when I lived in NYC. I worked at a wine store in Manhattan and quite a few of my co-workers were Jewish. Sometimes these kids would come into the store and ask if anyone was Jewish. My co-worker Bert, and elderly Jewish gentleman, shooed them out and said that yes, they were asking for donations. It only happened a couple of times and if I recall correctly, near the holy days. It might just be a regional phenomenon?

People go door to door in residential areas asking for donations for local Jewish charities, in NYC and Israel, but I've only heard of it happening in neighborhoods where pretty much the vast majority of people are known to be Jewish and members of the community. People comment on it and how some of the people are pretty pushy when they come door to door, is mainly where I've heard about it at all (that vast internet lurking addiction I have!), but it seemed to be different from any situation that would be out on the street and they'd need to ask people if they were Jewish.

That, as others already posted, usually seems to be the "Are you Jewish? If so, we'll help you do a mitzvah right here and now" crowd from Chabad. Those guys are purposely looking for people who they think are secular Jews, so they would look for those who don't already seem to be members of the Orthodox community, out in Central Park or wherever lots of people might be.

...which is to say yeah, I can imagine you getting asked in that shop in Manhattan.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Sounds like Chabad. It's pretty common in my area.

The Chabad schools have dedicated times each week for the teens to go out and try to get non-observant Jews to do mitzvahs (commandments). Men are often asked to put on tefillin (little black boxes attached to leather straps, which are put on the head and left arm while a prayer is said), while women are given Sabbath candles. Most of the time, they won't bother with anyone who says that they aren't Jewish, but there is a growing trend to tell non-Jews about the 7 Noachide Laws, which they consider to be rules for all of humankind (don't murder, don't steal, don't eat flesh that comes from a still-living animal, don't commit idolatry, don't commit blasphemy, don't commit adultery or incest, establish courts of law). They don't request or expect donations.

While putting on tefillin and lighting Sabbath candles are basic parts of traditional Judaism, approaching strangers to focus on these things is specifically a Chabad thing. It's part of a mystical teaching in Kabbalah that the world is "broken" and that sparks of holiness got scattered all over the world, and that it is their duty to go around the world to collect all of these sparks, so that the world can be fixed and allow the Messiah to come. When someone observes a commandment, a spark of holiness is collected. [This is the simplest explanation that I can give, because the long version is far more complicated.] As well, many of these Chabad teens will go on to run their own outreach centers or programs, so this gives them training.

[pomology]

Okay, can somebody with better knowledge of what is allowed/forbidden on shabbos than I tell me why these boys are on the train on shabbos?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Oops. I completely overlooked the part where it's Shabbos. Yeah, I don't see how they'd be on a train either.

[Ralar]

Sounds like Chabad. It's pretty common in my area.

The Chabad schools have dedicated times each week for the teens to go out and try to get non-observant Jews to do mitzvahs (commandments). Men are often asked to put on tefillin (little black boxes attached to leather straps, which are put on the head and left arm while a prayer is said), while women are given Sabbath candles. Most of the time, they won't bother with anyone who says that they aren't Jewish, but there is a growing trend to tell non-Jews about the 7 Noachide Laws, which they consider to be rules for all of humankind (don't murder, don't steal, don't eat flesh that comes from a still-living animal, don't commit idolatry, don't commit blasphemy, don't commit adultery or incest, establish courts of law). They don't request or expect donations.

While putting on tefillin and lighting Sabbath candles are basic parts of traditional Judaism, approaching strangers to focus on these things is specifically a Chabad thing. It's part of a mystical teaching in Kabbalah that the world is "broken" and that sparks of holiness got scattered all over the world, and that it is their duty to go around the world to collect all of these sparks, so that the world can be fixed and allow the Messiah to come. When someone observes a commandment, a spark of holiness is collected. [This is the simplest explanation that I can give, because the long version is far more complicated.] As well, many of these Chabad teens will go on to run their own outreach centers or programs, so this gives them training.

I went to a university with a large Jewish population. A friend and I were walking across campus, to the Hillel House (Jewish Student Center). As we passed the Student Union, I realized I was alone. My friend was nowhere to be found. A minute or two later, heram to catch up with me. I asked where he disappeared to. He responded, "you're never going to believe this. One minute, I'm talking to you and then suddenly a guy comes up to me and says, Psst! Are ou Jewish. I said yes. The next thing I knew, I was in a sukkah shaking a lulov and sniffing an etrog!"

Of course, it was the Chabad guys!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Whoops, missed the Shabbos part. Even though there are some technical exceptions, Chabad wouldn't let its students ride the train from Friday at sundown to Saturday after dark. I also haven't heard of them actually chasing anyone - generally, if you clearly say you aren't interested, they leave you alone.

[Peas n carrots]

Thanks for e answers!

I short, I live in the Chicago North Shore area, but my particular enclave has a large Orthodox population. I am not sure if it's a local thing or not.

I wouldn't say the kids followed the man off the train, as a lot of OJ's get off at my stop so it might have just worked out that way. I'd seen plenty of men get asked, but I was surprised when I was asked if I was Jewish. They don't really bother anyone or try to convert anyone who says they aren't so I can't say the annoy me in the same way fundie Christians do, but I was curious about what the purpose was.

[FaustianSlip]

Sounds like Chabad, as the others have said. They're really common in Manhattan, where they'll ask people if they're Jewish- if you're a guy, they'll try and get you to put on tefillin, and if you're female, they'll try to get you to commit to lighting Shabbos candles. They're pretty equal opportunity in the sense that they're happy to get people of either gender to do a mitzvah, but they focus on a traditionally "female" mitzvah for the women and a traditionally "male" mitzvah for the guys. I've gone to Chabad houses and been stopped by Chabadniks in Manhattan before, and they've never asked me for money. As an organization, I think Chabad tends to be pretty well-funded, as there are a lot of secular folks who, while not remotely religious in practice, donate to Chabad because they like the idea that Chabad is preserving traditional Judaism (whether that understanding of Chabad's mission is accurate, I'll leave for another thread).

The weird part is that these kids are riding the train on Shabbat. They shouldn't be doing that in the first place, according to Jewish law, and even if someone wanted to give them money, they couldn't take it, since you're also forbidden from handling money on Shabbat. I've never seen that happen before, and that doesn't sound like Chabad at all. In fact, that makes me wonder if it's some kind of a ploy by a Messianic group to suck people into unknowingly going to some kind of Jesus-y stuff at a Messianic "temple."

[Dena]

"Every Sabbath" - Do you mean like Friday afternoon?? Shabbat doesn't start till sundown Fri night. It sounds like it is the afternoon since the kids ask the person if they are going to service that night. That does sound very Chabad and they are most likely trying to get some Jews to perform mitzvahs. I have never heard of them asking for money.

[Peas n carrots]

"Every Sabbath" - Do you mean like Friday afternoon?? Shabbat doesn't start till sundown Fri night. It sounds like it is the afternoon since the kids ask the person if they are going to service that night. That does sound very Chabad and they are most likely trying to get some Jews to perform mitzvahs. I have never heard of them asking for money.

Yeah, it's def before sundown...

I've never heard them ask for money, it's something my husband had heard. He was once told that they asked if someone was Jewish and would expect a donation towards their Bar Mitzvah, but that person could have been uninformed themselves...so I wouldn't consider the person who told my husband that to be an authority on the subject.

[Kishiria]

I'm partly of mediterranean descent and look Jewish as all heck. One time as my husband and I were driving through mid-state New York, an Orthodox Jewish man (black fedora, topcoat, peyes, etc) came up and asked me if I was Jewish. He was pretty nervous talking to a woman; maybe he was afraid that I would try to touch him?

I don't remember the conversation, but he went away. My husband, who's a blond Viking, asked me what had just gone on and I said, "I think he was trying to recover a lost Rose of Sharon or something."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yeah, it's def before sundown...

I've never heard them ask for money, it's something my husband had heard. He was once told that they asked if someone was Jewish and would expect a donation towards their Bar Mitzvah, but that person could have been uninformed themselves...so I wouldn't consider the person who told my husband that to be an authority on the subject.

Ok, it's definitely Chabad then. Friday afternoons prior to sundown is when the school let out early to allow the teens to do this.

Chabad doesn't hit up random people for money. There are other Orthodox Jews who will sometimes go door to door to Jewish homes and ask for money for a school or cause or dental surgery or daughter's wedding. Chabad's style is to do the street outreach and to offer many of their services free or at minimal cost, and then raise money from donors who support the work that they do and from people who may have initially been attracted by the free services and now want to give something back. [For example, we'll give donations if we visit a Chabad house in another city and get fed, and we also support a non-Chabad synagogue that welcomed us back when we were starving students and fed us without asking for money.]