Dear LL, I still really really hate you...and think you suck

[haveapicniclife]

How exactly is Saoirse pronounced? I have some Irish and Scottish ancestry but know next to nothing about the languages. (unfortunately learning much about that side of my family is difficult...I only have my father and grandmother to ask...my father doesn't really know much and my grandmother is in the early stages of alzheimer's).

Saoirse = "Seer-sha".

The more popular pronunciation for Eoghan is "Owen".

[BoomerLynn]

Saoirse = "Seer-sha".

The more popular pronunciation for Eoghan is "Owen".

Thanks! :)

[SunnyAndrsn]

I hear that. We had a Stanislaw who named his kid Stanley. His son and grandson are also Stanley, but the go by Stush and Stosh. Stush is my age and little Stosh is only around 9. I think Stanislaw would have been better than Stanley these days.

One of my favorite co-workers is from Poland, his name is Krzysztof

He gave his children traditional Polish names, which of course I can't remember right now.

[Kate]

Personally, I couldn't care less of a non Irish family picks an Irish name. No one "owns" the right to the name and I think a family should be able to pick a name they like (aside from things like Adolf Hitler Jones or whatever)

But I do live in an area with a heavy number of Irish Americans (lots of whom got in touch with their heritage with traditional Irish names), and after working at my kid's sport meet in a job that required me to call our written names--the Irish names made it an absolute nightmare. Seans have always been popular here and I've grown up with Liams and a Maeve and a Siobahn, but these weren't names most people even from around here would recognize--its like parents thought your more recognizable Irish names weren't Irish enough for them any more.

I have to think if you need a secret decoder ring just to say the kid's name, there might be a problem there.

[PBrooke]

My husband is very sensitive about the appropriating the names of other cultures thing - he thinks names like "Dominic" sound too ethnically Italian and his grandfather grew up in Italy! At some point,though, names cross the cultural barrier and become part of the "American" options - I'd say Sean is a pretty good example. And then you get spikes of popularity due to one famous character or person, who then normalize the name for everyone else - think names like Nadia 30 years back. I'm pretty sure Liam began to grow more popular here around the same time star wars ep I came out, with Liam Neeson, and it's been growing ever since.

[oscar]

Personally, I couldn't care less of a non Irish family picks an Irish name. No one "owns" the right to the name and I think a family should be able to pick a name they like (aside from things like Adolf Hitler Jones or whatever)

But I do live in an area with a heavy number of Irish Americans (lots of whom got in touch with their heritage with traditional Irish names), and after working at my kid's sport meet in a job that required me to call our written names--the Irish names made it an absolute nightmare. Seans have always been popular here and I've grown up with Liams and a Maeve and a Siobahn, but these weren't names most people even from around here would recognize--its like parents thought your more recognizable Irish names weren't Irish enough for them any more.

I have to think if you need a secret decoder ring just to say the kid's name, there might be a problem there.

I have a lot of cousins on my mom's side with these very Irish names. At least in my family, it is explicitly an attempt to re-establish a connection to a part of our heritage that had been nearly severed by historical anti-Irish sentiment. These are family names from relatives that my grandmother's generation never knew they had, rediscovered through genealogical research carried out by my mom's generation.

Adults who should know better have said some pretty questionable things to and about my cousins who are biracial and given names that reflect the Irish part of their heritage. Luckily, the kids in question are little pistols who have no problem setting the record straight. It's kind of precious how so many of my little cousins feel like it's awesome to spell out their names to everyone - they think it makes them really important.

[onlyorganic]

I think some people just want so badly for their kids to have "cool, unique" names. The sad thing is though, these names will be with these kids their whole lives. If mom wasn't from Ireland, doesn't speak Old Irish and wants to name her daughter Caoilfhionn , legitimately thinking it's pronounced like "Kay-o-elf-hi-on", then I have a problem with that. To me, that person just looks like a moron because it's an actual Irish name pronounced "Kay-lin" and they 1) didn't bother to look up how to pronounce it 2) gave the poor kid the burden of such a name and 3) will probably get pissed when someone pronounces their speshul snowflake's name "wrong". To me though, it seems like everyone is trying so hard to be "outside the box" when it comes to baby names, everyone's kid is "Izzabela", "Caydin", "Aiydaan", or "Miah"... "You know, Mia but with an 'h'?" Can we just go back to people being named Sally, Mark, and Paul?

[Kitty]

I also really hate the name Isabella. It's like someone wasn't happy with plain old Isabel, so they had to add an extra syllable on the end to make it girlier and more cutesy. Blech. I'll happily name any daughter of mine Isabel, it's a badass name. Come on, it's a retired hurricane name! And I survived the hurricane!

I hate names that have long vowels then very short "uh" sounds. Aaee-dun. Jaaayyy-cub. Meeeeeee-uh. Noooooo-uh. I'm exaggerating, but I really, really hate those names. Especially because it's so easy to use krii8tyv spellings for them. Ayden/Aedan/Aidon/Aydin etc. Jaycob/Jaekob/Jakub/Jaykub. Mia/Mea/Meea/Miea/Miya etc. Noah's not so easy, but there's always Kayla/Kaela/Kaila/Kaylah etc. That's probably why they're so popular- a lot of people aren't creative or resourceful enough to find a unique name, so they pick names with sounds that can be spelled any number of ways.

I also think the trend of Irish names is silly. Why do Americans want to be Irish so badly? The real Irish don't seem to think it's that big a deal. Conventional Irish names aren't so bad, it's the ones nobody can spell that are ridiculous. Saoirse. Fucking really? How many Americans know how to pronounce that? I do, but only because I did a wiki-walk through Irish names one day (since my own name is Irish). I can understand wanting to reflect Irish heritage, but ffs.

[Kate]

I think some people just want so badly for their kids to have "cool, unique" names. The sad thing is though, these names will be with these kids their whole lives. If mom wasn't from Ireland, doesn't speak Old Irish and wants to name her daughter Caoilfhionn , legitimately thinking it's pronounced like "Kay-o-elf-hi-on", then I have a problem with that. To me, that person just looks like a moron because it's an actual Irish name pronounced "Kay-lin" and they 1) didn't bother to look up how to pronounce it 2) gave the poor kid the burden of such a name and 3) will probably get pissed when someone pronounces their speshul snowflake's name "wrong". To me though, it seems like everyone is trying so hard to be "outside the box" when it comes to baby names, everyone's kid is "Izzabela", "Caydin", "Aiydaan", or "Miah"... "You know, Mia but with an 'h'?" Can we just go back to people being named Sally, Mark, and Paul?

At least Izzabela, Caydin, Aiydaan, and Miah are phonetic--I may just be cranky, but I can't understand why someone living in America with every intention of remaining here would choose Caoilfhionn and not Kaylin (or Cailyn, or Kaelin, or Caylynne...). It seems more than a little narcissistic to pick a name that can only be pronounced properly by the select few people in the little "club" who happen to be familiar with the phonetic patterns of the Gaelic language.

Some names are familiar enough that people know them despite not being phonetic (Margot, Chloe, Sean, Sinead) but other than that it seems more than a little aggressive. And I'm glad Oscar's nieces enjoy feeling special, but I can assure you the 7 and older kids at the sport meet were well and truly over it.

[NurseNell]

I retired in 2007 but this school year I took a part time job with a large urban school district. The students I have contact with are in grade school, middle school, and junior high, so under the age of 14. These are some of the names of real kids I had contact with this week: Jamaran (boy), Cailah (girl), Feanan (boy), Javonte (boy), Cordez (boy), Nakya (girl), Sahwon (girl), Ja'eari (boy), Talajah (girl), Talea (girl), Djari (boy), Jaymani (boy), Everard (boy), Seven (boy), Vantaynek (boy), E (boy), A (boy), CJ (boy), Amerior (girl), lots of Jaden, Jadon, Jayden,Jaydon and various misc spellings (both sexes), Daalajah (boy), several boys named Prince, too many girls named Nevaeh, Wisdom (boy) Satayea (girl), Nuradin (girl), IAmKingAllah (boy), Tresean (boy), Nah'carrean (boy), Britneyunna (girl), and my #1 favorite, La - a (girl, pronounced Ladasha, I am not lying). I ask the student his/her name, then I have to ask how to spell it. :oops:

We do have many refugeees in our schools. We have Karen studets who are refugees from Cambodia, they had an unwritten language so they use English letters to represent the way they say the names. The names are very long, few vowels, and remind me a little of Welsh names. I did not work with any Karen kids this week. The Hmong, a nomadic group from SEA who supported the Americans in Viet Nam, have been arriving since the end of Viet Nam. The children whose parents and grandparents have been in this country that long tend to use American names like Michael, David, Kevin, Mary, Susan, Elizabeth, etc. The newer Hmong families still use Hmong names, which I'm so used to I don't think of them as unusual and I know how to spell and say them. We have Somali refugees also, their names are normal Muslim names, which I'm used to and can both spell and pronounce.

I'm seeing many boys named Henry, which surprised me. Lots of kids named Liam, Hannah, Emma, Isabella, Clara,Grace, Gavin, Jack and Jackson, Sam.

[jenny_islander]

I think there are three general considerations for every parent:

If you and your child will have to spell and/or pronounce it all the time for your immediate social circle, it's not the right name. If you want to name your son LeVonder, don't spell it Lavender. If you want to name your daughter Michelle, don't expect people to realize that you decided to spell it Maeisheall.

If you are not absolutely certain that a name foreign to your culture is being interpreted, spelled, and pronounced correctly even if it passes the above hurdle, it's not the right name. Ideally, ask a native speaker.

If it's a name most often seen on stage personas or pets, for the love of your child, don't use it! Lethel, Sweetiebelle, Tawnee, and RavynChilde will thank you.

[NurseNell]

I also really hate the name Isabella. It's like someone wasn't happy with plain old Isabel, so they had to add an extra syllable on the end to make it girlier and more cutesy. Blech. I'll happily name any daughter of mine Isabel, it's a badass name. Come on, it's a retired hurricane name! And I survived the hurricane!

You probably aren't Hispanic. Isabella is Spanish, and I prefer it to Isabel myself.

[Angri-la]

I hate, hate, hate adopters like her. I could not agree with you more. IMO, children who are older aka not infants when they are adopted need to be in a smaller family, and IMO, ideally the youngest. Unless, of course, adopted with siblings to maintain the sibling group.

Dear Mira, you would have been my baby, the only child in my house...your beautiful face makes me want to adopt again. I would have loved to be your forever mommy.

In addition, adoption across cultural and racial lines has unique issues and I've never seen this family address those concerns. Mira deserves better.

Ladybug would love a little sister, and Mira is just darling. I did not change my daughter's name, she was 3, and that would be ridiculous, but I did change the Trendee spelling of it to the classic spelling. She didn't know how to spell her name, it had so many extraneous vowels. She can spell it now!

The challenge of interracial and an older than infant child is not lost on me, and I don't think LL knew what she was getting into. I knew what I was getting into, and I love it, but it is not always easy. It has been challenging, but rewarding. Ladybug has heard my reply to the question of "Oh, she is soooo cute, where is she from, Africa?" Ladybug now puts her hands on her hips and says "No, from Oregon!"

[NurseNell]

Why do Americans want to be Irish so badly? The real Irish don't seem to think it's that big a deal. Conventional Irish names aren't so bad, it's the ones nobody can spell that are ridiculous. Saoirse. Fucking really? How many Americans know how to pronounce that? I do, but only because I did a wiki-walk through Irish names one day (since my own name is Irish). I can understand wanting to reflect Irish heritage, but ffs.

Well, many Americans are of Irish heritage. I'm a McBride, and I have as much right to use Irish first names as anyone in Ireland. The U.S. is a country of immigrants. Those of Italian descent still use Italian names, the Germans use German names, etc. If we could only use American names I guess that would be Native American names since they are the true bona fide Americans.

[acheronbeach]

You have the right to name your kid whatever you want.

But the rest of us have the equal right to view you as a selfish, culturally insensitive jerk.

[onlyorganic]

You have the right to name your kid whatever you want.

But the rest of us have the equal right to view you as a selfish, culturally insensitive jerk.

LOL. I actually also hate when someone names their child a name that is clearly a girl's or boy's name and the child is the opposite sex. Parents get all butthurt when I'm surprised little Noah is actually a girl. Then there are the Camerons, Parkers, and Rileys of the world... /sigh. I think I'm just naming my daughter Mary and my son Bob. And I'll spell Bob as Boba... and when the Star Wars fans of the world mispronounce Boba's name wrong, I'll let them know in a huffy voice that the second b and the a are silent...

[Bella99]

I liked Aiden, until it was joined by Hayden, Caiden(sp?), Jayden and Braiden... Current worst name ever was a business associate who named their beautiful baby girl "McGee" and they call her "Gee".

[Patsy]

LOL. I actually also hate when someone names their child a name that is clearly a girl's or boy's name and the child is the opposite sex. Parents get all butthurt when I'm surprised little Noah is actually a girl. Then there are the Camerons, Parkers, and Rileys of the world... /sigh. I think I'm just naming my daughter Mary and my son Bob. And I'll spell Bob as Boba... and when the Star Wars fans of the world mispronounce Boba's name wrong, I'll let them know in a huffy voice that the second b and the a are silent...

*record scratch* It's not pronounced 'bobberfet'?!

[Kitchen Princess]

I don't know what the big complaint about Irish names is. All my 100% Irish cousins are all named Timothy, Patrick, John, or Michael. :P

[Austin]

I don't know what the big complaint about Irish names is. All my 100% Irish cousins are all named Timothy, Patrick, John, or Michael. :P

We have an Irish surname, have Irish ancestors (my grandfather and two of my husband's grandparents were first generation) and we named our kids accordingly. I have never heard of people having a problem with that. Not that I care, but it's just a little. . . strange.

[Vex]

I hate that these crazy people who 'secretly' loathe their adopted children qualify to... well... adopt children. I would give anything to be able to adopt, but I am a nonperson and not fit to be a parent, according to my government. My state will not allow single parents (LGBT or straight) or LGBT couples to adopt. There is also an age limit for adoption for couples.

But these people are able to adopt, even with scads of natural children. It blows my mind.

[Rosa]

The baby name book "Beyond Jennifer & Jason" has a nifty name-popularity generational chart that would explain the little Henrys running around right now.

I was surprised to learn recently that a Jewish friend thinks of Micah as a Jewish name; I always thought of it as a pretty fundy Christian name, and when we travel in Iowa & rural Wisconsin people assume we're some sort of fundie and sometimes comment on it. But we picked our son's name by generating a list of nature/myth/noun names that sounded like "real" names - we're not the only ones, either, I have recently met kids named Linden & Gryphon, both names we had on our list.

[Boogalou]

You probably aren't Hispanic. Isabella is Spanish, and I prefer it to Isabel myself.

I like Isabella better as well because it was Queen Isabella of Castile's name, who was pretty badass herself (Spanish Inquisition aside).

[Aristeia]

You have the right to name your kid whatever you want.

But the rest of us have the equal right to view you as a selfish, culturally insensitive jerk.

This, 100%.

FTR I'm not arguing only people of Celtic background are "allowed" to use those names. I apologize if I came off otherwise. This is a topic that's near and dear to me. Anyone can use those names, no matter what their background is. It's just upsetting when people choose the non-Anglicized versions and then clearly can't pronounce them.

Creaky Steel wrote:

I don't know what the big complaint about Irish names is. All my 100% Irish cousins are all named Timothy, Patrick, John, or Michael. :P

We have an Irish surname, have Irish ancestors (my grandfather and two of my husband's grandparents were first generation) and we named our kids accordingly. I have never heard of people having a problem with that. Not that I care, but it's just a little. . . strange.

No problems here! I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash for names like Sean or Mary. It just stings a bit when someone names their son, say, "Amhlaoibh" but pronounces it "Am-lao-iv" when it's pronounced more like "Olav."

[onlyorganic]

No problems here! I don't think anyone would bat an eyelash for names like Sean or Mary. It just stings a bit when someone names their son, say, "Amhlaoibh" but pronounces it "Am-lao-iv" when it's pronounced more like "Olav."

+1!