Sound of Freedom, Angel Studios, & Tim Ballard

[Columbia]

6 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

He also used a psychic to claim that he and a woman were married in a previous life (Mormons don’t believe in reincarnation so I presume this means in the preexistence where spirits lived before being born and gaining bodies here on earth).

I didn't think Mormons would believe in psychics either. That part is so strange.

 

6 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

I’d like to learn more about the child rescue and orphanage/adoption aspect of this organization.  It seems so shady. 

I saw somewhere that the adoption "agency" was actually a for profit entity. Turns out God's children might actually be for sale to the highest bidder.

[Howl]

On 10/8/2023 at 2:15 PM, Columbia said:

A Spear Fund website requests donations but doesn’t say what the group plans to do beyond “education, action, redemption, spirituality, and peace.”

Deliberately vague nothing verbiage.  I'm sure the bucks are pouring in; Jesse Watters (a slime bag in his own right) has a major audience (certainly in the millions) and it's so important TO THINK OF THE CHILDREN. 

This youtube snip is Mormon Stories' John Dehlin discussing Tim Ballard's tattoos and we know about them because of a photo/video of Tim Ballard's tats; he's wearing only some skin tight, low cut briefs.  The "Joder" tat just above his pubic hair is the Spanish slang for penis or "f**k".  Other accounts claim these are fake tattoos and this video was sent to an (unspecified) woman.  They don't look fake, but what do I know? 

I'd guess by this point his wife and  marriage are hanging on by a thread, but considering the massive amount of cash that flowed into OUR, maybe she's willing to take the tradeoff. 

[Howl]

7 hours ago, BensAllergies said:

He also used a psychic to claim that he and a woman were married in a previous life (Mormons don’t believe in reincarnation so I presume this means in the preexistence where spirits lived before being born and gaining bodies here on earth).

I find this interesting because Lori Vallow Daybell/Chad Daybell believed they were married/torrid partners in previous lives.  I wonder if it's an offshoot Mormon thing of some sort. 

From the AP article  linked by @noseybutt, Lawsuit alleges famous child-trafficking opponent sexually abused women who posed as his wife, Holy Freaking Guacamole: 

"The ruse began with Ballard and women in the organization taking cross-country trips to “practice” their “sexual chemistry” with tantric yoga, couple’s massages with escorts and performing lap dances on Ballard, the lawsuit claims.   (THIS IS 100% CLASSIC GROOMING, Y'ALL!) 

While promotional materials portrayed the group’s overseas missions as “paramilitary drop-ins to arrest traffickers and rescue children,” they mostly involved “going to strip clubs and massage parlors across the world, after flying first class to get there, and staying at five-star hotels, on boats, and at VRBOs (vacation rentals by owner) across the globe,” the lawsuit alleges."

Edited October 11, 2023 by Howl

[BensAllergies]

17 hours ago, Columbia said:

I didn't think Mormons would believe in psychics either. That part is so strange.

It is definitely not the norm that someone would claim that the prophet Nephi is speaking to them. By Mormon beliefs, he lived several hundred years before the birth of Christ and wrote the first two books in the Book of Mormon. Normally they would just claim God spoke to them. 
 

Nephi did prophesy a lot about our time so unfortunately it’s not a stretch that some people swallowed his claims hook, line, and sinker. His writings are the reason why many Mormons revere Columbus. Ballard certainly wanted to be on that same level.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Sorry but I had to laugh at this part:

[CTRLZero]

I wonder who the scribe was, and where are the writings?  

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I wonder who the scribe was, and where are the writings?  

I would love to read those ramblings. I bet they are quite entertaining.

[noseybutt]

People. We are all prophets on ketamine. 

[noseybutt]

I have a question.

I follow LDS-world very loosely, and much of what I know about LDS church structure and doctrine is what I have learned through professional world and I am not very current on what is happening.

I assume Ballard has many followers within the mainstream LDS church.

I also assume that some devout LDS are deeply into Q or Q tinged conspiracy theories.

So what happens to the Ballard/Q type LDS members when Ballard is ex-communicated? Do they side with mainstream LDS leadership? Or do they question their own church? How is this going down?

 

[Fundyrunner]

Re: what happens to Ballard/Q type LDS members. 

My LDS family and friends have been silent on social media. Those who were loudly calling for donations in 2020 and telling people to go watch the movie have not said a peep. 

I suspect that many are feeling duped. They will side with LDS leadership. If some disagree, they have the potential of being excommunicated as well. I don't think many will go that direction. The majority will side with LDS leadership. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Fundyrunner
typo

[BensAllergies]

Ballard has been sued by a married couple, in addition to the 5 women. The suit was filed yesterday on Wednesday.

Spoiler

https://www.abc4.com/news/local-news/second-lawsuit-filed-against-tim-ballard-by-married-couple/amp/

The article is pretty sparse but it notes claims of marriages being broken up. There is a link to the legal filing at the bottom of the article, but I haven’t read it

Re: the Q-Anon LDS

The people who have posted on my feed about Sound of Freedom and OUR are not Q, but they are conservative and devout LDS. I would not call them on the fringe so I would expect them to quietly stop posting about Ballard ever again, because they would believe the Church probably made the right call.

I have muted all of the rabid Trumpers on my feed, and they probably posted support for the movie too. While I could see some distancing from the Church over Ballard, I think that they would only do so over Trump. And I think that SLC leadership knows that which is why they will never make a negative statement about the former guy. They can’t afford to lose so many Trump cultists, but Ballard is a small disease that can be cut away without too much impact to the coffers.

[Columbia]

On 10/12/2023 at 6:44 AM, BensAllergies said:

It is definitely not the norm that someone would claim that the prophet Nephi is speaking to them. By Mormon beliefs, he lived several hundred years before the birth of Christ and wrote the first two books in the Book of Mormon. Normally they would just claim God spoke to them. 

Would there be any kind of discipline in the LDS church for using psychics? In most generic evangelical churches there would probably be *something* and the super reformed Calvinist churches would probably kick you out for doing that; they'd all probably lump it under witchcraft. I'm assuming it's different because this is a guy with money and connections, but how would this play out with a typical ward member?

[BensAllergies]

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

Would there be any kind of discipline in the LDS church for using psychics? In most generic evangelical churches there would probably be *something* and the super reformed Calvinist churches would probably kick you out for doing that; they'd all probably lump it under witchcraft. I'm assuming it's different because this is a guy with money and connections, but how would this play out with a typical ward member?

I think it would fall under false prophecy. It’s not a problem to have strange or different beliefs but if you are leading others astray it would become a problem and lead to excommunication if they don’t repent and fall back in line. That’s what I saw happen to those who wanted women to have the priesthood.

I think the rumor was that the Ballard excommunication was based on sexual immorality, but if he hadn’t been transgressing in that area then he certainly would have been in trouble for telling people he was going to be the prophet that will usher in the Second Coming, especially if he gathered a following around that idea (not sure if he ever did).

For a typical ward member the discipline would start at the bishop and would depend on the nature of it. Member with mental illness who gets up every Fast Sunday and bears outlandish testimony? Bishop would tap them on shoulder and ask them to allow others to speak. Member leading seances in their home and asking others in the ward to come? That would lead to bishop getting involved and then the stake if the behavior continued.

ETA: if an individual was seeing a psychic I don’t see how the bishop would get involved or even know about it unless something else throws a red flag.

Edited October 13, 2023 by BensAllergies

[CTRLZero]

Here’s an op-ed video by journalist Lynn Packer, who has been investigating and reporting on Tim Ballard/OUR for several years.  He has a YouTube channel with other related videos.  This one is fairly short, gives a good overview of questionable claims and activities, and has a bit of snark for good measure. 

Link:  Lynn Kenneth Packer reports on OUR - YouTube op-ed

[clueliss]

Jordan and McKay go thru the lawsuit filed against Ballard.  2.5 hours long.
 

Spoiler

 

 

[BensAllergies]

If you thought the LDS Church had fully renounced OUR, then think again. This kind of stuff makes me so mad. The optimistic view is that local leaders do whatever they want and the central SLC office doesn’t know about it until it’s too late, but still.

Spoiler

 

 

[CTRLZero]

On 10/12/2023 at 11:57 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I would love to read those ramblings. I bet they are quite entertaining.

Mormon Stories podcast just put up a long episode called “Visions of Glory & Thom Harrison.”  At about minute 44, there is a slide showing what the scribe wrote.  Definitely ramblings.  It’s an interesting panel discussion explaining the influence of this book “Visions of Glory” on a variety of people in the news lately.  (Lori Vallow was reading it by the poolside when she was served paperwork.)

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any weirder.  Back to finish the podcast…. 

[Howl]

On 10/17/2023 at 7:21 PM, CTRLZero said:

Mormon Stories podcast just put up a long episode called “Visions of Glory & Thom Harrison.” ...It’s an interesting panel discussion explaining the influence of this book “Visions of Glory” on a variety of people in the news lately.  (Lori Vallow was reading it by the poolside when she was served paperwork.)

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any weirder.  Back to finish the podcast…. 

Thanks for this, @CTRLZero! 

As with my limited experience with other Mormon Stories podcasts, this episode is absolutely fantastic.  John Delin gathers excellent co-podcasters for this episode. 

Yes, it does tie in directly with Lori Vallow, Chad having end of life vision experiences and so on, translated beings.   The entire way of thinking in that book (Visions of Glory) may have led Lori and Chad down a terrible path.  Alternately, people they interacted with it had read it and influenced them before they read it for themselves. 

Holy guacamole and Nephi riding a little red bike,  Thom Harrison's visions, and there are a lot of them.  Also, horrifying that Thom Harrison is an officially sanctioned LDS psychotherapist and Jodi Hildebrandt is a Thom Harrison alcolyte.  

 

[CTRLZero]

Radio Free Mormon podcast reads a statement from the latest lawsuit filed against Tim Ballard/OUR.  This is a married couple that claims Tim Ballard [allegedly] broke up or at least strained the marriage.  The most interesting parts of the wife’s statement (the husband’s statement will be read in another episode), were the ops training, the manipulation of the employee/wife who accompanied him on ops, the secrecy, and the fact she wasn’t paid and also lost her job.  She has apparently regained her common sense, and is revealing things in great detail.

Here’s the link to the one-hour podcast reading of her statement:  Radio Free Mormon YouTube - lawsuit statement of wife on couple’s ruse and more

[clueliss]

Found this on reddit.  A diagram of the Mormon cult multiverse.  
 

https://www.reddit.com/r/8passengersnark/s/Wt1E9VTJ5v

Edited October 22, 2023 by clueliss

[CTRLZero]

1 hour ago, clueliss said:

A diagram of the Mormon cult multiverse

This is great.  Thank you.   This should help me to better navigate the rabbit hole.  🐇 

[clueliss]

Jordan and McKay have a 2+ hour video discussing Visions of Glory.  They mention at the beginning that Mormon Stories also has a video going through it.  I have yet to find/watch that one yet.  
 

and yes, they have a slide tying out Tim Ballard, Jody Hildebrandt and Ruby Frankie, & Chad and Lori Daybill.  

I’ll cross post links in 8 passengers and go find the daybill thread to do the same. (And by cross,post, I mean link back here so I don’t have to type a lot).

Spoiler

 

 

[clueliss]

I’ve made it through the 5+ hour Mormon stories/Hidden True Stories podcast/ YouTube delving into Visions of Glory (the read it so you don’t have to), and am into part 2 (only 2.5 hours).

 

Ballard did a ketamine session with Thom Harrison.  Victim states in the lawsuit against him bring this up and he apparently believes in ‘eternal polygamy.’  Saying things like he was married to these women (his victims) in a past life and his present wife picked them out.  Similarly, Lori Vallow in a court statement that they had played at one point during one of the two videos said she and Tammy Daybell were ‘friends.’ (This was. Strange rambling bit involving references to her dead children seen in visions and they told her they were well and busy etc etc) which is being taken as another indication of the belief in eternal polygamy.  John Dehlin (Mormon stories) then points out that technically polygamy is still in the LDS Doctrines & Covenants.  And that the current two top LDS leaders appear to believe in some form of eternal polygamy.

[CTRLZero]

An amended complaint has been filed by the five plaintiffs.  It adds some information, especially implicating Utah Attorney General Reyes.  John Dehlin reads through the bulk of the allegations in just under an hour, but there is also a link in the show notes to the entire complaint if you prefer to read it.  Here’s the link to the Mormon Stories podcast:  First Amended Complaint - five plaintiffs versus Tim Ballard et al.

[Howl]

On 10/29/2023 at 7:45 AM, clueliss said:

Ballard did a ketamine session with Thom Harrison.  Victim states in the lawsuit against him bring this up and he apparently believes in ‘eternal polygamy.’  Saying things like he was married to these women (his victims) in a past life and his present wife picked them out.

Hoo boy, hope someone follows through on this claim.