Coronavirus 7: Ring in Delta Plus and then Omicron Takes Over

[Smash!]

Just found an article in Nature Medicine that describes the several post acute chronic syndromes Unexplained post-acute infection syndromes 

The full text is free, here’s the abstract:

Quote

SARS-CoV-2 is not unique in its ability to cause post-acute sequelae; certain acute infections have long been associated with an unexplained chronic disability in a minority of patients. These post-acute infection syndromes (PAISs) represent a substantial healthcare burden, but there is a lack of understanding of the underlying mechanisms, representing a significant blind spot in the field of medicine. The relatively similar symptom profiles of individual PAISs, irrespective of the infectious agent, as well as the overlap of clinical features with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), suggest the potential involvement of a common etiopathogenesis. In this Review, we summarize what is known about unexplained PAISs, provide context for post-acute sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC), and delineate the need for basic biomedical research into the underlying mechanisms behind this group of enigmatic chronic illnesses.

 

[Coconut Flan]

We really need to teach critical thinking skills.  We really, really need to.

This morning I read a survey over which is a greater danger in your life:  COVID or Monkeypox?  70% of people said monkeypox.  ::smh::  Let's see we have a virus transmitted by aerosols with a contagious level of around measles where 300 to 400 people are dying of it DAILY in our country or a virus transmitted mainly by prolonged skin to skin contact with a low R naught, less than five thousand cases in the country, and three people in the entire world outside Africa have died from it. in this latest incident.  Now which one are you likely to catch going about your normal life?  What are the chances of being hospitalized and dying from it?  

I'm not saying we don't need to stop the spread of monkeypox.  Not saying that at all.  But the ability of the average person to judge their risk level for various things is seriously deficient. 

My 70 something fully vaxxed and boosted neighbors both with heart trouble recently caught COVID.  My unvaxxed 70 something neighbors have not yet caught it.  The biggest difference?  The vaxxed neighbors listened to dimwits at their church who ridiculed them for still wearing masks.  The unvaxxed neighbors are paranoid health nuts who wouldn't think of going indoors without a mask and using hand sanitizer on their way out to eliminate other possibilities of illness. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by Coconut Flan
Updating numbers.

[Coconut Flan]

How we have gotten used to the horrifying.  The US COVID death rate has been steady for a couple of months at a level we would not have accepted 2.5 years ago as a steady state.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/08/03/covid-deaths-us-stuck-horrible-plateau-experts-say-heres-why/10202358002/

[CTRLZero]

31 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

How we have gotten used to the horrifying.  The US COVID death rate has been steady for a couple of months at a level we would not have accepted 2.5 years ago as a steady state.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2022/08/03/covid-deaths-us-stuck-horrible-plateau-experts-say-heres-why/10202358002/

From the article: 

COVID-19 is “like having to live in flu season year round, and that’s not what we do with the flu,” he said. “If we had to do that with the flu, we’d be instituting more measures than what we do.”

I like having a phrase to simplify how horrible Covid really is when trying to explain to someone who thinks it’s no big deal.  “Like having to live in flu season year round” is a good start.  Then go on to remind them flu season is typically three months, so multiply Covid deaths by four.  And this is what we’re becoming accustomed to.

 

[Coconut Flan]

Plus we're not even talking a regular flu season.  50,000 deaths a month is a bad flu season and many people are willing to accept that as normal now each and every day.  The mind boggles.  I guess as long as it's happening to someone else, they think it's OK.  

I am a bit surprised that the main difference right now between who lives and who dies is getting treatment in the first week.  So far I've known no one personally who this year has even seen a doctor with COVID.  I'm not saying that's good, but most of them are saying oh it's a bad cold as they run a fever and can't stop coughing.  Neither one of which is common for them with a cold. 

[Baxter]

I had what would be considered a mild case of Covid in April and it was not like a cold. I do regularly get a bad cough whenever I have a cold but I have never had that kind of fatigue when I had a cold, like I might just faint at any moment if I didn't lay down. I also had a burning feeling on the soles of my feet like I had hand foot and mouth. I also think that I have developed arthritis in my hands abd potentially some nerve damage in my feet from Covid. This is not a cold. 

My family had been very careful when we got it. My husband was unlucky when he caught it at work. He wears an N95 at his office where almost no one wears a mask. He caught it within a few weeks of having to go back to his office. I had done online kindergarten with my son last year to try and keep us all healthy and safe. Except for my parents and my sister's family who are very careful, we have led a very secluded existence. 

But I'm really starting to be torn about what to do with my kids. I want them to start having some more normal childhood experiences but I don't want them constantly catching covid. Almost everyone else we know seems not to care anymore. My son will be attending grade one in person. He will wear a mask. But of course lunchtime is a problem so I'm going to have to get hom from his classroom and have him eat lunch in my car every day with my three year old in tow although my mom might be able to help out as well. The logistics of all of this make me want to cry. I'm really torn about what to do because Covid is not benign but I can't keep up the level of caution we have been exercising.

[Jackie3]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:19 AM, Coconut Flan said:

Plus we're not even talking a regular flu season.  50,000 deaths a month is a bad flu season and many people are willing to accept that as normal now each and every day.  The mind boggles.  I guess as long as it's happening to someone else, they think it's OK.  

 

Who is "they"? The rest of the world thinks this way? And only you know better?

The people who are dying are largely unvaccinated. They have made their choice. They put others at risk by acting recklessly.  They can't get out of their own way. They have chosen to put themselves at risk. It is quite reasonable (and in fact important) for the vaccinated to go on with their lives. It's a good thing that life has returned to normal. The next problem is dealing with the huge number of anxious young people who were traumatized by this.

On 8/3/2022 at 8:46 AM, Baxter said:

But of course lunchtime is a problem so I'm going to have to get hom from his classroom and have him eat lunch in my car every day with my three year old in tow although my mom might be able to help out as well. The logistics of all of this make me want to cry. I'm really torn about what to do because Covid is not benign but I can't keep up the level of caution we have been exercising.

If you are vaccinated, the mental health costs of forcing your 6 year old to eat in his car will far exceed any Covid risk. You are conditioning him to be terrified of an invisible virus that is VERY unlikely to kill him.  He is going to be alone among his classmates, and will start to resent you. It does not sound like a sustainable plan, since Covid is not going away. If he gets Covid, unless he has health issues or is unvaccinated, he will be over it in a few days. Actually, unvaccinated healthy kids usually do fine, too. 

My kids, at 6, would be puzzled, angry and scared if I pulled them away from their friends at lunch. It would make them feel vulnerable and different--why can the other kids eat n the lunchroom? What's wrong with me? They are eating there and not getting Covid. He'll resent you, eventually. Even worse, he'll become afraid, and that fear will spread to other aspects of life.

Do you suffer from anxiety? Because -- unless you have health conditions in your family -- this level of caution is irrational and unnecessary. 

My good friend, a doctor who works with Covid patients, calls this behavior "covid theatre." It is unnecessary and doesn't make sense any longer. It provides a false sense of security. The emotional damage that it creates is far worse than any threat. 

I live in a state where people have been very, very cautious. Nowadays, life is back to normal and that is great. I just hope they don't start scapegoating the schools again. It is always the schools (as opposed to bars or Costco) that is suddenly viewed as "high risk" during spikes. That's because children do not have a voice, while Costco customers do.

On 7/30/2022 at 11:01 AM, Coconut Flan said:

The biggest difference?  The vaxxed neighbors listened to dimwits at their church who ridiculed them for still wearing masks. 

Hon, masks protect other people, not you. Little cloth masks do next to nothing.

On 7/30/2022 at 11:01 AM, Coconut Flan said:

My 70 something fully vaxxed and boosted neighbors both with heart trouble recently caught COVID.  My unvaxxed 70 something neighbors have not yet caught it.  The biggest difference?

The biggest difference is luck and chance. Cloth masks do very little. Though they do make the sanctimoneous feel pretty smug!

On 8/3/2022 at 7:26 AM, Coconut Flan said:

How we have gotten used to the horrifying. 

You could say that about a lot of things--the war in Ukraine, car accidents, breast cancer, the war on drugs. 

[Coconut Flan]

People like this are why people are still dying.  

You make a lot of assumptions, don't you?

We're not talking cloth masks and if you'd ever read a scientific study you'd know that masks protect the wearers as well as other people.  

May you enjoy the future health problems you're inviting into your life by pretending that COVID is nothing.  Have fun with long COVID.

[FiveAcres]

Ableist asshole trolls are gonna troll by mom-shaming and asking inappropriate questions about other people's mental health.

Edited August 6, 2022 by FiveAcres
typo

[Baxter]

I didn't go into a lot of details in my previous post because it would have been far to long. My son is vaccinated but my daughter was only able to get her first shot yesterday because we live in Canada and our province was ridiculously slow rolling out vaccines for the under 5. Because Canada recommends 8 weeks between doses, she won't be fully vaccinated when her brother starts school.

Both of my parents have health issues. My mother has compromised lung function, she suspects from when she was sick with a very bad flu as a teenager. My father has several serious health issues and I definitely immunocompromised. My son is very close with his grandparents. I imagine it would be very distressing to him if he got them sick and his grandfather died as a result of it. Likewise as he is very close with them he would find it very distressing not to be able to see them any longer because the risk would be too great for them.  

As for our current lunchtime solution, I don't know how long we will do that for. I want to see what the cases are like when school starts. I also want his sister to be fully vaccinated. 

Unfortunately, I am somewhat resigned to the fact that we will probably catch covid again at some point. But I would like to forestall that as long as possible. I would really rather that my kids didn't get diabetes or other health complications from this. I also don't want to get more severe long covid so that I don't have the energy to be a good mother to my kids. 

My son hasn't spent the last two and a half years locked in his room. But our life is certainly much smaller than it was before covid. This makes me sad. I certainly hope we can work our way back to something more normal without killing the grandparents or ending up with debilitating health conditions. 

[Ali]

@Baxter This person is a troll who got bored with trolling other treads. You do not need to defend yourself. Everyone else understands how hard it is to be a parent right now. No judgement from me. I have had to make many difficult decisions over the past two years for my own children.

[Baxter]

@Ali thank you. I know she's a troll. I usually just ignore her. But for some reason I didn't this time. When I wrote my original post I was in a different head space. But I'm now really at peace with our current decisions for the fall. Whenever I get overwhelmed with all of this stuff, I try to think about how lucky I am to have choices because so many people do not have those choices. 

[Coconut Flan]

Someone with more reliable information than the trolly troll:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/covid-children-death-vaccine-17354819.php

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, Baxter said:

I want to see what the cases are like when school starts. I also want his sister to be fully vaccinated

From what happened here they will likely spike at the start of the school year. We also have a lot of non-covid (or rat-negative at least) respiratory viruses circulating - the Royal Children's Hospital had a 9 hour wait for emergency last week after over 100 patients more than would be usual for a winter night turned up. My child made it to day 3 of term 1 before testing positive and being home sick for a week, we're now in week 5 of term 3 and onto the second week for this term of being home sick with a rat-neg virus (pretty sure the first round was influenza - get the vaccine). It's very disruptive to schools, and to activities in general. I keep hoping it will slow down but so far not really - there's a push at the school to look at more mitigation measures, particularly structural ones.

[Baxter]

16 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

From what happened here they will likely spike at the start of the school year. We also have a lot of non-covid (or rat-negative at least) respiratory viruses circulating - the Royal Children's Hospital had a 9 hour wait for emergency last week after over 100 patients more than would be usual for a winter night turned up. My child made it to day 3 of term 1 before testing positive and being home sick for a week, we're now in week 5 of term 3 and onto the second week for this term of being home sick with a rat-neg virus (pretty sure the first round was influenza - get the vaccine). It's very disruptive to schools, and to activities in general. I keep hoping it will slow down but so far not really - there's a push at the school to look at more mitigation measures, particularly structural ones.

Yes, I expect there will be a spike. Cases, hospitalizations and ICU numbers are already going up where I live. From an academic perspective, my son's school is a good fit for him. But I have been less happy with some other aspects. For one, they have been less than forthcoming about any additional measures for air filtration, etc. But really that should be an obviously good choice to invest in because it would help with all sorts of seasonal respiratory illnesses. Just as proper sanitation drastically improved public health, proper air filtration would do the same. 

[Ozlsn]

Here we started with air filters in classrooms  and daily rat testing in term 1 - this did at least mean we knew he was sick on day 3 (the symptoms would also have been a clue for that given he went from nothing to waking up with nose streaming and coughing.) The masking was harder due to the nature of the school, but they are still persisting. Given there are renovations happening more permanent air filtration is being discussed, which should help I hope.

[Coconut Flan]

When California dropped masking in schools, the case load went from two at the grandkids' school to 50 almost overnight.  It's so simple and most of the kids didn't object, but it certainly made a difference.

[Baxter]

@Ozlsn I wish our school would do this stuff. As I said, they are kind of cagey about the air quality and what they are doing for filtration. When I inquired about having a unit in the classroom, I was told they was no space. There are no testing requirements and masking is optional. My son attended in person for the last five weeks of school last year. About two thirds of kids were still masking then. I expect it will be less now but I hope at least some kids will be. 

[Ozlsn]

32 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

When California dropped masking in schools, the case load went from two at the grandkids' school to 50 almost overnight.  It's so simple and most of the kids didn't object, but it certainly made a difference.

We keep getting the disinformation being promoted here that "masking makes no difference in schools". I'm saying dis- rather than misinformation because it's being spread by people who should know better given their field of alleged expertise. The study in Canada certainly showed it made a difference, and it is a fairly minor intervention. The argument that we shouldn't ask kids to do it if we're not asking adults to wear masks in offices I have more sympathy for, I agree. 

Mind you the tweet that made me roll my eyes the hardest last week was along the lines of "the worst thing about this pandemic has been children being labelled as disease vectors". I mean 1. that predates covid by quite a lot and 2. tell me you don't have children without telling me you don't have children...

[adidas]

I think masks should be mandatory in schools again, but our premier won’t do a thing about it. 

[ADoyle90815]

Despite being fully vaccinated and having one booster, I started noticing symptoms after I got home from work, so I tested and it's positive. Fortunately, a lot of rest today has seemed to work, as is constantly drinking water. I'm on sick leave from work until I test negative at this point, since the first thing I did this morning was to call out sick. I sometimes felt I was one of the few wearing masks indoors and around crowds, especially as LA County and several cities refused to reinstate the indoor mask mandate. I'm sure I got it from people not wearing masks while shopping as masks have always been required at my job.

Edited August 10, 2022 by ADoyle90815

[Coconut Flan]

I've been in LA for a week and it's still better on masking than Orange County where I need to stop on my way home today.  I'm almost always the only person in a mask when I stop there.  I hope you're better very soon.

12 hours ago, ADoyle90815 said:

Despite being fully vaccinated and having one booster, I started noticing symptoms after I got home from work, so I tested and it's positive.

 

[CTRLZero]

The majority here used to be so good at masking.  It’s getting pretty rare to see people in masks here, but we’re grateful to see the handful that do when we enter a store.  The exception to that was the grocery store.  More folks wear masks there than anywhere else we enter.

A lot of our acquaintances are coming down with Covid for the first time, but seem to be rebounding quickly.  My sister knows someone who’s had it three times!  We are amazed we haven’t gotten it yet, despite air travel.

[Coconut Flan]

For the masks don't work club - just go shut up!

Quote

Lifting school mask mandates linked to jump in COVID infections

Schools that removed mask protocols earlier this year immediately saw increase in COVID-19 cases in both students and staff, according to a preprint study of 79 districts in the greater Boston area posted online Wednesday. Over a 15-week period, the schools that dropped the mask requirements had an estimated 45 additional cases per 1,000 people above what was seen in schools that kept masking protocols, according to the research, which has not been peer reviewed. If all the students who tested positive followed Massachusetts state guidelines to isolate for a minimum of days, those cases meant 20,000 extra missed school days, said Dr. Ellie Murray, professor of epidemiology at Boston University, who conducted the observational study in partnership with researchers from Harvard and the Boston Public Health Commission. “Masking is a relatively low-cost but effective intervention that can protect students and staff from substantial illness and loss of in-person days in school,” the authors concluded.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/COVID-in-California-Anxiety-depression-among-17365817.php

[adidas]

A quick question, can anyone please share info if they know the answers?

Mum tested positive 2 weeks ago (after being sick for a few days and I finally insisted that she MUST do a test, the second line showed up at the same time as the first it was so strong). She took antivirals and because she was given a whole box of rapid tests, did one every morning. She was still testing positive after 6 days but tested negative on day 7 and had no symptoms. She was able to leave isolation, wore a mask, did everything right. Spring is around the corner here and she gets terrible hayfever - got a runny nose a few days ago, did another test and was negative, so assumed it was seasonal allergies. I spent time with her yesterday, she woke up with a runny nose again this morning and tested positive. She will call the dr but asked for my advice and I don’t know the answers. It’s early morning here so she can’t speak to a Dr for a while. 

Does she go into iso? Have I been exposed? 

We know that rebound isn’t uncommon after antivirals but we’re not sure of the details around it.

Edited August 19, 2022 by adidas