NYT on Christian Health Care Cost-Sharing Ministries

[JenniferJuniper]

14 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Certified midwife or Jill Duggar type midwife? Certified midwife would/should know how to determine due dates and shouldn't let anyone go too long. (I'm not a medical anything, just had 3 babies and was 10 days over with one of them and had have scheduled C for another because she was so big)

Not sure what kind of midwife as I don't think she's said much about her, but Shoshanna in some respects is one of the less stupid fundies out there.   Hopefully her midwife knows when it's time to suggest induction or a C section.  But over age 35 and over 44 weeks, I'd have sought out a doctor by now.   

[hoipolloi]

She claims to be seeing a "quarantined health professional."

There is also a decent chance that she is wrong about her dates and not that far along, though she still must be over 40 weeks at this point.

 

 

[JenniferJuniper]

How does a "quarantined health professional" do an exam on pregnant woman?   Does s/he have a robot?  Or 6 - 8 foot long tools?  I'm willing to be it was nothing more than a video chat. 

I think she thought she was due in February.  Yet she may give birth in April at this point.

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

How does a "quarantined health professional" do an exam on pregnant woman?   Does s/he have a robot?  Or 6 - 8 foot long tools?  I'm willing to be it was nothing more than a video chat. 

Further down in that post Shoshanna says it's the same midwife who delivered her other kids in home births. Pretty sure she posted some information about the midwife when the youngest was born several years ago.

ETA: Found the FB post on that child's birth. Her midwife was/is a then-75-year-old Amish midwife.

Edited March 30, 2020 by hoipolloi

[JMarie]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

Further down in that post Shoshanna says it's the same midwife who delivered her other kids in home births. Pretty sure she posted some information about the midwife when the youngest was born several years ago.

ETA: Found the FB post on that child's birth. Her midwife was/is a then-75-year-old Amish midwife.

Does the midwife's "quite unfussy nature" exclude wearing gloves?

[JenniferJuniper]

"Dr" Shoshanna is still pregnant and posting how she can tell if the placenta is breaking down.

These fucking people.  We want to lock you up - or -worse - if you abort in the first trimester, but we get to play God with our past full-term babies. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

These fucking people.  We want to lock you up - or -worse - if you abort in the first trimester, but we get to play God with our past full-term babies. 

And letʻs not forget that these same pro-lifers believe that neither the old nor those with intellectual disabilities should receive life-saving care if they come down with the coronavirus. 

Fucking monsters, every last one of them.

[HereComesTreble]

44 weeks!?!  Reckless AF.

The “post-term pregnancies are fine, because medical intervention is the worst” movement disgusts me.  Truly infuriates me.  They ignore the science that post term babies can & do die from very avoidable maladies.

It’s not limited to religious fundies, either.  These radical crunchy birthers come from a variety of backgrounds (but they do generally come from countries where modern medical care is available).

Their ivory tower outlook on medicine blows.  So many families in countries with limited/no access to maternity medical intervention would have done anything to have had their loved ones saved.  Yet, these nutbags are just “don’t listen to doctors—listen to your body!”

[JenniferJuniper]

6 minutes ago, HereComesTreble said:

44 weeks!?!  

And counting.  She announced she was 44 weeks two days ago.  She explains today why it's important not to "induce too soon":

Quote

It’s important not to induce too soon. With herbs or anything! Often it’s like a whiplash birth. Something that would’ve been relaxing and peaceful, ends up being traumatic and very hard. Inducing too soon can end up stressing the baby... and then ending up in a unwanted C-section.

Can you say "me, me, me"?   She wants a relaxing, non-traumatic birth.  Last thing she wants is a C-section.

Good luck, little one.  Here's hoping Mama Plexus is way off on her timing. 

[HereComesTreble]

50 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Can you say "me, me, me"?   She wants a relaxing, non-traumatic birth.  Last thing she wants is a C-section.

Good luck, little one.  Here's hoping Mama Plexus is way off on her timing. 

You summed up that whole crazy outlook perfectly.  Selfish.  These mothers would risk their overdue baby dying from inhaling poop (meconium) than have an induction, and possibly (gadzooks!) a c-section.

[JermajestyDuggar]

22 hours ago, HereComesTreble said:

You summed up that whole crazy outlook perfectly.  Selfish.  These mothers would risk their overdue baby dying from inhaling poop (meconium) than have an induction, and possibly (gadzooks!) a c-section.

Yet they constantly call abortion selfish. If they weren’t so closed minded, they would understand that it’s selfish to bring an unwanted baby into the world that couldn’t be cared for properly. 

[JenniferJuniper]

Shoshanna is still pregnant.  45 weeks this weekend.

"This baby likes my belly!"

?

[hoipolloi]

Shoshanna claims that she went to a "wonderful little women's center" and had a baby stress [sic] test done. Everything is fine!

[JenniferJuniper]

The little center that could?

I don't believe the wonderful little women's center she "just found" that has been shut down rushed to re-open for her.  I think she's only talking to people who are telling her what she wants to hear.  Don't worry.  All in God's good time.  Take your vitamins.  Drink your Plexus.  Big babies are healthy babies.

She's over 35 and claims she's 45 weeks in two days.  I truly hope things turn out well, but this reckless behavior. 

[hoipolloi]

44 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

She's over 35 and claims she's 45 weeks in two days.  I truly hope things turn out well, but this reckless behavior. 

ITA. The selfish arrogance of Shoshanna Pearl Easling is stunning. I hope that neither she nor her baby pay for it.

[Giraffe]

I have a hard time believing she’s 45 weeks. What are the chances she still had a period when she was already pregnant and she’s only 41 weeks at this point? Either way her arrogance is stunning. . 

[JenniferJuniper]

37 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

I have a hard time believing she’s 45 weeks. What are the chances she still had a period when she was already pregnant and she’s only 41 weeks at this point? Either way her arrogance is stunning. . 

I'd say it's very possible.  It's not like she sees a doctor.  Why see medical professionals when you already know everything?

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

The little center that could?

I don't believe the wonderful little women's center she "just found" that has been shut down rushed to re-open for her.  I think she's only talking to people who are telling her what she wants to hear.  Don't worry.  All in God's good time.  Take your vitamins.  Drink your Plexus.  Big babies are healthy babies.

She's over 35 and claims she's 45 weeks in two days.  I truly hope things turn out well, but this reckless behavior. 

I bet she went to an anti-choice friend who knows how to work an ultrasound machine.

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I have a hard time believing she’s 45 weeks.

There's a decent chance that she's wrong about her dates. I hope so.

25 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I bet she went to an anti-choice friend who knows how to work an ultrasound machine.

This was my thought exactly -- she went to one of those fake-ass, fundie forced-birth centers where they do the 3-d ultrasounds.

FWIK, a bona fide non-stress test for a late-term pregnancy & fetus would only be done in a clinic or hospital setting, possibly a doctor's office if they have the equipment & tech personnel available.

ETA: Looks like a non-stress test is a routine office procedure. Still doesn't sound like that's what Shoshanna actually did.

Edited April 3, 2020 by hoipolloi

[Foudeb]

On 3/31/2020 at 7:49 PM, HereComesTreble said:

44 weeks!?!  Reckless AF.

The “post-term pregnancies are fine, because medical intervention is the worst” movement disgusts me.  Truly infuriates me.  They ignore the science that post term babies can & do die from very avoidable maladies.

It’s not limited to religious fundies, either.  These radical crunchy birthers come from a variety of backgrounds (but they do generally come from countries where modern medical care is available).

Their ivory tower outlook on medicine blows.  So many families in countries with limited/no access to maternity medical intervention would have done anything to have had their loved ones saved.  Yet, these nutbags are just “don’t listen to doctors—listen to your body!”

Eh. I am one of those radical crunchy birthers. 

The risk of stillbirth at 42 weeks is lower than it is at 37 weeks. You don't get pressured into induction at 37 weeks. 

Induction itself is not risk free. It can cause hypercontractions (this happened to me. It is not pleasant.) which can in turn cause a uterine rupture. That carries a risk of death fir both mother and foetus. Call me selfish for wanting to live, you may be right but I will not apologise for it. 

Inductions also carry an increased risk of emergency csection (again, happened to me. Was not pleasant. Would not recommend. One out of five stars) which carries all the risks of any major abdominal surgery for the mother. But you don't care about those selfish mothers, so let's focus on the risks for the foetus (increased likelihood of jaundice, of infection and obesity later in life due to lack of exposure to the mother's vaginal flora). And risks to any subsequent foetus (uterine rupture again). 

Not inducing after 41+5 days of pregnancy carries an increased risk of stillbirth. But not a huge one. 

Tl;dr: induction carries risks to mother, foetus and subsequent pregnancies. Choosing whether to induce should be an informed choice from the mother and the mother only based on her specific circumstances and medical advice from respectful medical professionals who are familiar with her medical file. And everyone else should shut the fuck up. Pregnant women, believe it or not, are fully capable of making their own medical decisions. 

Even us radical crunchy birthers. 

[Jasmar]

Shoshanna is not fully capable of making sound, informed decisions, because she is always right, knows everything, and is blessed by God. It’s not about you.

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Jasmar said:

Shoshanna is not fully capable of making sound, informed decisions, because she is always right, knows everything, drinks Plexus, and is blessed by God.

Made a minor edit there because, of course, we all know what a miracle substance Plexus swill is.

Edited April 4, 2020 by hoipolloi

[JMarie]

TTUAC is just about all I know of the Pearls, and that's enough.  Until this thread. So I have a few questions about darling Shoshanna.

1. How many fricking maternity photo shoots does she get?

2. Why is this only her fourth pregnancy, if she got married in 2004?  She should have a LOT more kids by now.

3. Do they get birth certificates for their kids? I know they don't get marriage licenses.

4. Her sons are allowed to run around naked.  Is her daughter allowed to as well?

[hoipolloi]

23 minutes ago, JMarie said:

TTUAC is just about all I know of the Pearls, and that's enough.  Until this thread. So I have a few questions about darling Shoshanna.

1. How many fricking maternity photo shoots does she get?

2. Why is this only her fourth pregnancy, if she got married in 2004?  She should have a LOT more kids by now.

3. Do they get birth certificates for their kids? I know they don't get marriage licenses.

4. Her sons are allowed to run around naked.  Is her daughter allowed to as well?

1. Haven't paid much attention to them but at least 2 or 3 for this pregnancy, in addition to the various couple & family photo shoots.

2. Think she's had a miscarriage or two. She has said that B.P. (before Plexus) she was in such poor health that it was hard for her to conceive and carry a healthy baby to term.

3. Good questions. She actually did get married legally a couple of years ago after her lawyer & accountant had heart attacks when they found out the Easlings were *not* legally married. Going to guess that the kids have birth certificates, possibly for the same reason.

4. Not that she's shown on FB, AFAIR.

[Lady Grass Lake]

This scares the @$#%@$ out of me.  I lost my first child to Meconium aspiration.  This was back in 1980 and my periods  were irregular, so it was hard to determine when I got pregnant.   I was well over a week overdue.   After 2 nightmare days of labor and no progression my water was broken and suddenly things got hectic.  I was sent to the operating room for an emergency c-section.   

One of the things that triggers a newborn's first cry is the shock of cold air on their skin.  They were hoping I could push her out, because that clears a lot of the amniotic fluid out of the lungs, but with a c-section, if the baby in turned wrong, like mine was face up back of head against tailbone and deep into my womb, they sometimes gasp and pull in a lot of fluid.  My fluid it turns out was full of meconium, the first dark tarry stool a newborn passes.  Overdue babies run the risk of having their first bowl movement while still in the womb and it puts them in a toxic environment.   My daughter's birth apgar was 0, the 5 minute was 2.  She was taken to a NICU in another city, where she passed the next day.  Her lungs were damaged due to the toxic soup combined with the lack of oxygen to her brain, was the cause of her death.    

 

This was 40 years ago, and things in the OB world have changed so much, ultrasounds can accurately pinpoint fetal age, inductions are done earlier in the game, but unfortunately not all babies make it home.  When I hear of situations like this, I just want to go shake some sense into these women.  I had so many people tell me I should sue everyone who treated me, but I couldn't.    I don't feel there was any negligence, no one could have predicted this happening.   My poor GP, he immediately stopped doing OBGYN in his private practice, and the OB doctor changed things in his practice.  He successfully delivered my son 20 months later and cried with me when he was born.  So, some good things came out of this.  My only regret, I asked about organ donations and was told that they didn't do infants and babies.  Today, they could have used her heart, kidneys, and liver.    

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Lady Grass Lake
Edited for readability.