Trump 43: King of Chaos

[Howl]

Quote

Ms. Hevrin Khalef was reportedly dragged from a vehicle and shot to death.

Other reports say she was raped before being stoned to death.  That her death was brutal is undisputed; there is video of her body.  Of all that is going on, this simply tore my heart in two. 

I do fear that as impeachment looms, Trump will declare a national emergency and suspend the Constitution.  

If betraying the Kurds and greenlighting  Kurdish genocide doesn't turn at least some MAGAs against Trump, nothing, absolutely nothing will.  I hope that at least some veterans who served in the Middle East theater and fought ISIS will come to their senses and realize the extent to which they have also been betrayed, while Trump didn't miss his golf game. 

Shep Smith gone from Fox and Chris Wallace in the cross hairs, Fox is soon to be a full on propaganda machine.  The "news" section (once Shep Smith and Chris Wallace giving at least a semblance of "fair and balanced") will be gone and it will be Glorious Chairman Trump 24-7. 

 

 

 

 

[SassyPants]

13 hours ago, GreyhoundFan said:

An interesting op-ed: "It’s clear. Trump doesn’t want to be president anymore."

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Nancy Gibbs, a former managing editor of Time, is the director of the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government.

With each passing day, President Trump flaunts his great and unmatched wisdom and so invites us to play armchair, arm’s-length therapists. So let me float an untested theory about what is unfolding before our eyes. And then let’s test it.

What if the president wants out? There’s much about the job he never liked, which is one reason he spends so much time watching TV rather than actually doing it. Under normal circumstances, it involves any number of things he once avoided; shaking hands with germy people, being talked at by experts who know more than he, sitting still for extended periods, being criticized no matter what he does, empathizing — all important parts of the job. He has gone to considerable lengths to reshape the role, fired the experts, cleared his schedule, kept up his golf game … but still. The campaigning was fun, but the best evidence of how little he likes presiding is how seldom he’s actually done it.

I got a glimpse of this before he even reported for duty. It was a few weeks after the 2016 election, and I interviewed him in his Trump Tower aerie. He was jovial, gracious, answered all the questions, was reveling in his impending power. As we were finishing, I asked if I could come back later and see him in the White House, to see how it was going. “Yes, of course,” he said. But then he paused and asked, “But … what if I don’t like it? What if I don’t want to do it anymore?” Sometimes half-joking questions are the most serious.

He has claimed so often to love being president that it’s easy to think he protests too much. And he’d hardly be the first to be restless: Harry S. Truman called the White House the “great white jail.” Bill Clinton dubbed it “the crown jewel of the federal penal system.” Most presidents endure the serial stresses of hard decisions, the weight of making life-and-death choices, all the teetering values and visions that leadership entails. They live with the fallout, find solace where they can, including in commiseration with their predecessors.

Trump escapes the frustration of failing to accomplish his agenda by not having ever had one, beyond his continued exaltation. He could count this moment as a high point: record-low unemployment, still soaring stock markets, judicial transformation. It’s easy to imagine it’s all downhill — and fast — from here. His confidence in his supreme wisdom leads him to make even reckless decisions, such as his abandonment of America’s trust with its Kurdish partners, with no evidence of regret or remorse other than disliking the criticism for doing it. But ever since the Ukraine scandal erupted, his rage-tweeting and Wagnerian self-pity suggest that the incoming fire for his misconduct, occasionally even from his defenders and enablers, has made these days even less fun than usual.

All of which raises the question: the release of the Ukraine information, the double-dare-you defiance of congressional oversight, the sellout in Syria, even the rising profanity of his Twitter stream each seem expertly suited to inflaming one constituency or another, and not just the people who have loathed him from Day One. The polls are moving for a reason: Republicans and independents, even those serving in Congress, may not agree where the line is, but they know there’s one somewhere, and it does not involve a shooting on Fifth Avenue.

Consciously or not, might he conclude that impeachment and removal is his least bad option for escaping the “great white jail”? Resigning is out; that’s for quitters. Defeat in 2020 is worse; losing is for losers. But being impeached and removed from office is the one outcome that preserves at least some ability to denounce the deep state and the quislings in the Senate who stabbed him in the back, maintain his bond with his tribe, depart the capital and launch a media business to compete with the ever more flaccid Fox News. (This all presumes that President Pence pardons him, for which there’s some precedent.) Impeachment lets him go down fighting, and he will call it rigged and unfair and illegitimate and a coup, all of which would be harder if the verdict was rendered next November by millions of voters.

So what would count as a sign of his escape velocity? Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump decamping for Manhattan. Trump issuing an executive order renaming Reagan National Airport after himself. He fires Elaine Chao and starts campaigning against Mitch McConnell in Kentucky. He kicks a puppy on the South Lawn, in front of the cameras.

When you think about it, with a choice of bad options, impeachment doesn’t look so bad, and gets you home to your gilded tower sooner. Assuming, that is, that you don’t think you can just burn the Constitution to the ground and be the last one standing.

 

I always believed that he’d deliberately get out of fulfilling this job, and if he can do so AND save face while having something to bitch about on Twitter for the rest of his life, all the better, at least in his mind. 

[formergothardite]

18 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I always believed that he’d deliberately get out of fulfilling this job, and if he can do so AND save face while having something to bitch about on Twitter for the rest of his life, all the better, at least in his mind. 

He would much rather be impeached than actually lose the election. Loosing it would be humiliating. Being impeached means he can claim the deep state liberals took out an innocent man. 

 He isn't going to get impeached, though. Nothing that is revealed will convince the republicans to impeach him. And he also won't give up if he loses the next election. He will declare himself a winner, say the election is invalid and we will be in for an wild ride as the new president tries to kick him out of the White House. 

Short of him dying(which will bring the out all sorts of crazy conspiracy people), there is no way that getting him out of the presidency will go easily. Trump knows that without the position of being president, the republicans won't protect him. He has to keep his at this job he actually hates. Things are going to get even more dirty as the election grows near. 

[fraurosena]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Other reports say she was raped before being stoned to death.  That her death was brutal is undisputed; there is video of her body. 

I've seen the video on social media. It was so horrific I chose not to post it here, because I can't imagine anyone actually wanting to see that. I've also been reading that the Turks are beheading any Kurds they find. Although I know that people can do the most appalling things to their fellow humans, it's always so confronting and nauseating to hear/read such things. It makes me sad and angry and frustrated and helpless all at the same time. Especially so in this case because it was entirely preventable.

I blame the Repugliklans for this, with Mitch McConnell as the worst of them. They are the ones that put Trump where he is, and even when they saw how horrible he his, still chose and choose to keep him in a place of power where he can do these things to innocent human beings. This is their doing. This is their legacy. They are on par with the German nazi's, and history will not treat their vileness kindly. 

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

He isn't going to get impeached, though. Nothing that is revealed will convince the republicans to impeach him.

He will get impeached: it's the House that determines that. By law, the Senate must put Trump on trial. It's the removal from office that isn't a given. However, I'm still not convinced the repugs won't drop Trump as fast as they can when all of his irrefutable and indefensible criminality becomes public knowledge. It's not the repugs that need to be convinced, because I can't imagine they don't know (almost) everything already. No, it's going to be public opinion that will 'convince' them. The Dems seem to realize this too. That's why they are so forthcoming with so much information already.

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

And he also won't give up if he loses the next election. He will declare himself a winner, say the election is invalid and we will be in for an wild ride as the new president tries to kick him out of the White House. 

If he is not removed from office and he ends up losing the election, I think you could be right. I don't see him leaving voluntarily. He is scared shitless of what will happen when he becomes a private citizen and there is no repug president willing to pardon him. (Something that bothers me about him getting removed: a repug president pardoning him like Ford pardoned Nixon).

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Things are going to get even more dirty as the election grows near. 

Yes. It's going to get a hell of a lot worse with every impeachment hearing, with every new revelation coming out, and with the elections drawing nearer. The more cornered Trump feels, the more he's going to lash out in every way he thinks will save him. I'm very much afraid what he did to the Kurds is not going to be the worst of it. 

[fraurosena]

More proof he will say and do anything that he believes benefits him. He'll swear to protect you and then turn around and enable your genocide. 

 

[Dandruff]

9 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

He will get impeached: it's the House that determines that. By law, the Senate must put Trump on trial. It's the removal from office that isn't a given. However, I'm still not convinced the repugs won't drop Trump as fast as they can when all of his irrefutable and indefensible criminality becomes public knowledge. It's not the repugs that need to be convinced, because I can't imagine they don't know (almost) everything already. No, it's going to be public opinion that will 'convince' them. The Dems seem to realize this too. That's why they are so forthcoming with so much information already.

I agree with most of what you're saying but believe there are some other issues to be considered.  Trump isn't the only one with dirt under his fingernails and, as long as he's in office, doesn't he have the ability to pardon some of his cronies?  If there are top-level folks (I'm just referring to those in the US here) who are currently benefitting in best-not-publicized ways, wouldn't they want to keep their benefits coming for as long as possible?  It makes perfect, awful, sense that they'd be covering each other's tails.  In order for the chaos to be stopped, the Republicans who are helping to maintain the nightmare would need to realize - and I'm not sure they ever will - that it's not in their best interest to do so.  How can that be accomplished?

I suspect there are going to be delays, distractions, and cries of witch hunt for some time to come.  This will help dampen the effects of public opinion which, sad to say, are easily dismissed.  The public may be catching on, and I'd guess lots of repugs wish they never heard the name "Trump", but history has shown that the self-interests of a powerful few often result in the suffering and destruction of many.  Kurds now, no telling who or what later.  Things can get a lot worse than this.  Meanwhile, I think most people are just watching and waiting for someone to show a way out.

 

[fraurosena]

17 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Trump isn't the only one with dirt under his fingernails and, as long as he's in office, doesn't he have the ability to pardon some of his cronies?  If there are top-level folks (I'm just referring to those in the US here) who are currently benefitting in best-not-publicized ways, wouldn't they want to keep their benefits coming for as long as possible?  It makes perfect, awful, sense that they'd be covering each other's tails.  In order for the chaos to be stopped, the Republicans who are helping to maintain the nightmare would need to realize - and I'm not sure they ever will - that it's not in their best interest to do so.  How can that be accomplished?

I agree, it's one great big corrupt mess. And it most certainly isn't only Trump -- he's a culmination, not a cause. The whole GOP is as corrupt an organization as there ever was. So covering each other is indeed in their best interest. Until it isn't. Because they are all in it to win it, but as soon as it looks like they (singular) might be going to lose, well... That is the moment they will turn. The only way to accomplish that (as far as I can see) is for the facts to be so damning, and so potentially dangerous to them personally, that they choose to save themselves. I really think the best option is for the public to turn against them, as that is the biggest threat they could face. The question is, is this a viable scenario? Are there such facts that would turn the public against them and force them to change their attitudes? I'd like to believe so. Especially because a couple of key repugs (McConnell chief among them) are up for election. McConnell will get rid of Trump in a heartbeat if he thinks it will keep him in power.

It's party over country for them, certainly, but first and foremost, person over party, every time.

[fraurosena]

Oh, you mean it’s yet another Russian connection? 

 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, fraurosena said:

It's party over country for them, certainly, but first and foremost, person over party, every time.

I agree with this, but what about the domestic and (especially) international players - political and not - who have their own interests to promote?  Trump, McConnell and others appear to have some powerful connections who I'm guessing are also making a lot of money.  I believe those influences need to also enter into the calculations...along with both US and International laws.

[WiseGirl]

Tell me to stop watching the news. 45 can take his sanctions and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. Every day I hate 45 more. Every. Day.

[fraurosena]

5 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

I agree with this, but what about the domestic and (especially) international players - political and not - who have their own interests to promote?  Trump, McConnell and others appear to have some powerful connections who I'm guessing are also making a lot of money.  I believe those influences need to also enter into the calculations...along with both US and International laws.

I think the outsider parties (be they domestic or foreign) will use their useful idiots until they aren’t useful anymore. Then they’ll drop them and move on to other idiots to use. I believe that Trump just might be on the last vestiges of his usefulness, and once his puppetmasters have gotten all they can out of him, the message will go out and Trump will be left to his own stable genius’ devices. McConnell (and others like him) is only useful as long as he gets re-elected. If his re-election were to become doubtful, then he’ll be cut off quick smart.

Again, public opinion will be tantamount here. The puppetmasters need to work in the dark, and to keep out of the public eye. If full exposure is a possibility, they will shy back to the shadows, cleaving anyone and everyone as necessary. 

But Putin, I hear you ask. Everybody knows about him! Yes, they do. But there is still some hint of plausible deniability. There is no direct connection exposed. Everything is still circumstantial, and therefore not such a threat. That is why the impeachment inquiry is so important. Not that it will reveal Putin himself, because he’ll have an oligarch or two to be his fall guys, but the inquiry might get too close to him for comfort. And as soon as that happens, it’s bye-bye to the useful idiots. Couple that with the decline of usefulness, and the chances of  Trump et al being left on their own become much higher.

 

[Destiny]

1 minute ago, WiseGirl said:

Tell me to stop watching the news. 45 can take his sanctions and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. Every day I hate 45 more. Every. Day.

So much same. I had to turn off the tv today for my sanity. 

[Smash!]

I think I need a break from the politics subforum. It's almost 2 o'clock in the morning and I still can't sleep because of this shithead of 45 who loves to play with fire. I can't even browse Twitter anymore without seeing pictures/videos of Kurds being killed. It's sickening.
I just decided to join a small activist group who has the purpose to get expats here to vote and I’ll remind every damn US expat living here I can get a hold of to request their ballots and VOTE. We don't know for sure how 45 will react when he loses but we, everyone of us, can contribute no matter how small that is to make damn sure he won‘t get reelected.

[Dandruff]

3 hours ago, fraurosena said:

I think the outsider parties (be they domestic or foreign) will use their useful idiots until they aren’t useful anymore. Then they’ll drop them and move on to other idiots to use.

I'm sure the outsiders are continuing to play a long, opportunistic game.  That would mean new useful idiots in the process of being identified and groomed.  I'd guess both Dems and Repugs, because it makes sense.  Hope there are eyes open.

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[fraurosena]

"... most of whom I do not know..."   

 Be careful what you wish for...

[fraurosena]

Impeach the pres?  I'm ok with that.  

Also, just as an aside, because I can't help pointing this out: just saying screaming that the median household income is the highest it's ever been, doesn't actually mean anything. How about telling us what the actual cost of living is for the median household, and then compare that to their income. I'm willing to bet those numbers won't be worth screaming from the rooftops for.

[Audrey2]

1 hour ago, fraurosena said:

"... most of whom I do not know..."   

 Be careful what you wish for...

What, you and your handlers want transparency so you can make your problems "go away" or so you can "convince them that they don't remember things correctly" before they testify or have to change their testimony after (to protect you and your handlers)? I don't think so. Usually I'd be for transparency, but I know those who testify against the Mob get whacked.

[front hugs > duggs]

There's also more people working today in the history of the US because there are more people in the US...not rocket science.

[fraurosena]

24 minutes ago, Audrey2 said:

What, you and your handlers want transparency so you can make your problems "go away" or so you can "convince them that they don't remember things correctly" before they testify or have to change their testimony after (to protect you and your handlers)? I don't think so. Usually I'd be for transparency, but I know those who testify against the Mob get whacked.

Adam Schiff has also said that he doesn't want the testimonies to be public so the witnesses can't corroborate their stories. 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[Howl]

On 10/14/2019 at 2:09 PM, fraurosena said:

However, I'm still not convinced the repugs won't drop Trump as fast as they can when all of his irrefutable and indefensible criminality becomes public knowledge. It's not the repugs that need to be convinced, because I can't imagine they don't know (almost) everything already.

This predicates a relatively normal political climate.  NOTHING is normal in the US political climate because the dynamics have changed with Trump, twitter, constant chaos the 24-hour (or less!) news cycle, social media manipulation, Russians! and  I'll add in Mitch McConnell's relentless rat fuckery in the US Senate. 

The government is being dismantled by placing corrupt/incompetent people into acting Cabinet Secretary positions and putting into place policies that hamstring hard working public employees, who then are in the untenable position or trying to do their work under unworkable conditions, because the real objective is to force them out.  Jeff Tiedrich's tweet posted by @GreyhoundFan sums this up nicely. 

This leaves conglomerates/corporations untended, able to run roughshod over unprotected citizen consumers, while these same entities can loot the Treasury and grow fat on government contracts. 

There's a second part, the religious part.  The evangelical/Catholic religious persecution complex is in overdrive, convincing credulous evangelicals/Catholics that their rights are being infringed on, while caving to their incessant demands for more "protections," which allows them to  infringe on the rights of everyone else, while attempting to destroy Roe v Wade, gay marriage, and LGBTQ rights.  

Then there's Trump's constant inflaming of racial animus and general assholery through his rallies.  

What's happening, on the whole, is that there are various sub groups who can promote their agendas under cover of the general Trump chaos.  None of those groups bode well for me as a regular citizen, but those whose agenda can advance under the Trump chaos will support him to their dying breath.  It has nothing to do with  the hideous version of a quasi human who is Trump himself, who is in turn using all of these groups  to support his narcissistic supply needs.  So currently, greed/corruption (including foreign interests) religious fanaticism and narcissism are driving the current administration. 

I used to fear the Moral Majority/Evangelicals, I'm becoming convinced there is a Deep State with a Catholic bent that is driving a lot of this and they are doing a rather brilliant job.  I hate conspiracy nut-case whack jobs, but I might be becoming one.  

I have two words: Federalist Society and Opus Dei. I'll get into this in another post, and might start a thread about it, but I'll leave y'all with this list of devout Catholics, Opus Dei adherents and Federalist Society members involved somehow in this administration or highly placed in government or otherwise influential.   

Kellyanne Conway, Hannity, George Conway, Mattis, ex-CoS John Kelly, Barr (confirmed Opus Dei), Mulvaney, Leonard Leo, Brett Kavanaugh, Scalia, ex SCOTUS  Kennedy,  Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Gen. Dunford,  Mike Flynn, Gorsuch and on and on. 

 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Howl

[GreyhoundFan]

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Interesting info in the article. If the mango moron could read, he'd be having a conniption fit right now.