Mississippi Passes 15 Week Abortion Ban

[Cleopatra7]

Mississippi has just passed the most draconian abortion law in the US, banning abortions after fifteen weeks:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/19/us/mississippi-abortion-ban.amp.html

”The bill, labeled the Gestational Age Act, was passed overwhelmingly by both chambers of the Republican-controlled State Legislature this month.

The governor was in a jovial mood as he signed the bill into law. “We are saving more of the unborn than any state in America, and what better thing we could do,” said Mr. Bryant, a Republican serving his second term.”

I know criticizing Mississippi is like shooting the proverbial fish in a barrel, but it must be said that this is a state that has little regard for the post-born, especially for those that are poor and/or black. Mississippi politicians constantly claim that the state never has money to go towards education or health, but somehow did manage to create an entire shadow government from 1956 to 1977 to fight against the Civil Rights Movement:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_State_Sovereignty_Commission

As these “pro-life” politicians pat themselves on the back for their concern for the “pre-born,” I’d like for them to spread a bit of that concern to the children that are already here.

ETA A judge has already blocked the law:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.clarionledger.com/amp/441763002

[mango_fandango]

Sorry if this comes across harshly, but it's fucking unbelievable how backwards some areas of the US are. This is the problem with a federal country like the USA, some areas are very liberal and forward-thinking and some are stuck in the 50s or even further back. How can a country like that be governed properly??? 

[fundiefollower]

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

[mstee]

It’s gross to listen to these men celebrate the fact that they have made life harder for women and children. He probably has done nothing of value for the foster care system in his state or to help struggling mothers or improve the school systems. What a mess. When will the law makers value the lives that are already here? It’s all a distraction from the real issues in our country. 

[akinom]

40 minutes ago, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

I agree that it is a difficult question, and I’ve given it a lot of thought. I think abortion should have no time limit. 

[FeministShrew]

56 minutes ago, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

Not my uterus, not my business.

[Aine]

I live in this state. It was a culture-shock to be sure coming from a much more liberal country.

What's even worse is that I believe the bill also does not allow exceptions to the 15-week rule for incest or rape. On top of that, there is one abortion provider in the state. The state is also very rural, with only two areas classified as urban (Jackson and Tupelo), and incredibly poor so having one provider is already heinously restrictive for the vast majority of women here. 

This state is able to stay as backwards as it is because people aren't educated for the most part. I do believe it can change and I do see hope here, even if it sometimes feels overwhelming. I believe in making Mississippi better and although I am not firmly decided, I am considering staying here long-term. I get a little defensive of it when people who haven't spent time living here and really exploring and understanding the complexities of this place just make sweeping judgments based on stereotypes. Don't get me wrong- the stereotypes exist for a reason but there are things to love about this messed up little part of the world and it really worms its way into your heart if you're willing to open yourself to it!

That being said, I am apart of a group that is actively protesting this and there will be copious legal challenges to it and I think it will be found to be out of line with Roe v Wade.

[CelticGoddess]

1 hour ago, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

I personally don't think it's anyones business.  It should be up to the individual woman to decide.

[NakedKnees]

1 hour ago, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

My support of abortion rights has nothing to do with gestational age, and I think a lot of pro-choice people feel that way currently. It's a decision that should be made between a pregnant person and their medical provider. I've yet to hear of an outright abortion ban of any sort that wasn't rooted in misogyny rather than medicine.

Some articles I think are important to this subject under spoiler. TW: abortion, late-term abortion, medicine/doctors.

Spoiler

 

Here's a pretty well-known interview showing not only how serious, but how well-regulated late-term abortion actually is: https://jezebel.com/interview-with-a-woman-who-recently-had-an-abortion-at-1781972395

This article is a bit old, but from what I can tell Dr. Willie Parker is still providing abortions in Mississippi and is a hero for doing so: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a23771/abortion-ministry-of-dr-willie-parker-0914/

 

 

Personally, I've never been pregnant (to my knowledge), but I don't think I'd draw a hard line in terms of gestational age. I live in one of the strictest anti-abortion countries in the world (Chile), so if I needed an abortion at this point in my life, it would involve a lot of weighing time-consuming options.

ETA (again): Well, as of last year, Chile permits abortion up to 12 weeks in cases of rape and incest (14 weeks for youngest victims), and in cases of inviability/mother's life at risk. So, I'm not sure if it technically counts among the "strictest," but I think it's still pretty strict.

[Aine]

2 minutes ago, NakedKnees said:

This article is a bit old, but from what I can tell Dr. Willie Parker is still providing abortions in Mississippi and is a hero for doing so: https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a23771/abortion-ministry-of-dr-willie-parker-0914/

Dr Willie Parker is still the clinician providing abortions down in Jackson. I volunteered last Summer as an escort for women at the clinic. He is an honorable man with a huge amount of integrity. He literally puts his own life at risk every day doing what he does, and I can only imagine how many women's lives have been spared enormous suffering because of his work. 

[PennySycamore]

@fundiefollower,  the age at which a fetus is viable hasn't changed much in 30 years.  It IS NOT  going down all the time and really CANNOT without the development of an artificial uterus.  Babies born before 22 weeks do not have any skin (only a gelatinous coating on their bodies) and their lungs are a solid block of tissue. 

@Aine,  I want to read Dr Parker's new book.  He's one of my heroes!  And so are you for volunteering at his clinic!  

[feministxtian]

2 hours ago, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

I don't think it's difficult at all. 90% of all abortions are first trimester abortions (prior to 13 weeks). 10% are second/third trimester and of those it's about 1% third trimester. The second and third trimester abortions are usually due to gross fetal abnormality and/or mother's health. So, seeing as how the pro-lifers tend to get bent over the later term abortions which are a small percentage of the total, they can all STFU. A good friend had to terminate a much wanted pregnancy some years ago. Professional couple, this would have been their 4th child. She goes for the 20 week scan and finds out the fetus has no brain and an open spine. Utterly incompatible with life. It was a gut-wrenching decision for them but they knew there was no way they could bring this pregnancy to term. A year later she got pregnant again with a healthy boy. 

They talk about "fetal pain"...what about the pain that some of these will endure AFTER birth due to their particular defect? A life of tubes, IVs, invasive procedures and surgery. I would rather spare my child that. 

The "pro-life" movement is utterly hypocritical. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133 They claim to be "pro-life" but will happily deny people housing, food, medical care, education and clothing. Fuck them all. Yes, I am a rather conservative Christian, but I part ways with them here. My mantra is the following:

Matthew 25:31-46

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

[zeebaneighba]

3 hours ago, akinom said:

I agree that it is a difficult question, and I’ve given it a lot of thought. I think abortion should have no time limit. 

Owning my agree.  Every case is individual.  The decision should be made by the woman and her doctor, not the government.

[luv2laugh]

Fuck this bullshit.

Let's do an experiment for two weeks.

Let's gather all of these men in support of this, stick them in a crammed studio apartment with a few of those robot babies, tell them they need to find childcare while they work a minimum wage job to put food on the table, juggle studying for some classes part-time, survive on 4 hours of interrupted sleep, and see how long they last.

[smittykins]

Oh, but THEY would've kept their legs closed![/sarcasm]

[jerkit]

On 3/20/2018 at 2:25 PM, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

This is between a woman and her doctor. 

[feministxtian]

On 3/22/2018 at 2:41 AM, jerkit said:

This is between a woman and her doctor. 

Again...MOST abortions are done in the first trimester and most of those are what they call "medical abortions", that is, using medication to end the pregnancy. I have no problem with that at all. And, as I said elsewhere, I think a woman should decide for herself if she wants to support a parasite for 40 weeks. The thought of abortion after viability is where it gets hard...BUT...considering that most abortions done after 20 weeks or so (after the anatomy scan) are due to lethal fetal abnormality, that's up to the parents and doctor. I know late term abortions are NOT cheap and due to all the restrictions, many involve traveling to the few places where they are done. I remember reading that someone had to come up with like 30 grand for a third trimester termination...who the hell has that kind of cash and the ability to make travel arrangements quickly? The "pro-life" crowd would have everyone believe that second and third trimester abortions are just oh so common and are sought by women who suddenly change their minds about having a child. But, they're  bunch of uninformed, brainwashed idiots who would believe the sky is red if their "leaders" and Faux News told them so. 

[formergothardite]

On 3/20/2018 at 2:25 PM, fundiefollower said:

To what gestational age do you all support abortion?  Prior to viability outside the womb?  That keeps changing over time.  I think it's a difficult question.

Since many have already said what I would say, I have a question for you that I hope you will answer. Why do you think it is a difficult question? What does viability have to do with it? If a woman(for whatever reason) wants an abortion when the baby is viable, what do you suggest doing if you don't agree with abortion? Force the woman against her will to remain pregnant no matter the cost to her quality of life? Force her to have a c-section to deliver a tiny preemie? The difficult question is why forced pregnancy is okay and anyone who supports it should be willing to answer the tough questions that come with denying women rights over their body. 

[PennySycamore]

This might be the appropriate thread to leave this since it's about what can happen if you force young teenage girls to bear their rapist's child:

In Paraguay, 14 year old girl dies while giving birth to rapist's baby