Fundies in Professional Careers

[chaotic life]

Raised fundie lite, the younger siblings homeschooled until my parents divorced and dad walked completely away from Fundie while the maternal entity went deeper.

However, my parents were themselves highly educated and it was a non-negotiable for we children. It was the SAHD movement that started calling for denying those opportunities for girls that first prompted me to distance myself from Fundie life.

Of my siblings, we have a Pediatrician, a Civil Engineer, a doctoral trainer Nurse Practitioner, a professional athlete, a jewelry sales clerk still working through school, a manager at a sporting goods store who is also an athletic coach and two who just finished high school.

I am the only child who stayed in Fundie land and I left and put my kids in public school before they were grown up.

[jozina]

Some STEM degrees here (Australia) are already very unlikely to lead to a job in the field. I'd say a good third of the people I know with law degrees regret the hell out of it because they never got a job even vaguely related to the field. It's a very oversaturated field, so I'd wince if my kid took their philosophy degree to law school like it was a solid plan.  Medical schools and law schools tend to buddy up for social events at universities here so I got to know a lot of law students in medical school and have a lot of doctor friends who married someone with a law degree.

I've worked with quite a few Mormon doctors who have been just fine. One memorable pharmacist who was fundie-lite I guess and had moved from the US with his wife and their four kids.  She stayed at home and he came into work to sprout his rubbish, including that birth control caused abortions.  Lots of complaints laid in a very short time frame and he either quit or was fired, I'm not sure which. You do you with your religion buddy but when you start coming out with factually inaccurate propaganda to patients you need a new job.  He was crying discrimination when the complaints started. From a bit of Facebook stalking it looks like they're back in the US and now have seven kids.

[chaotic life]

Of that second generation, my niece is in law school. My three adult children are in college or vocational training. They hope to be a doctor. A medical translator and a social worker. The three teens want to be a Biophysicist, a doctor and a veterinarian. The littles are still young but she wants to be a NP like mama or a chef and he wants to work for NASA and have an alpaca farm.

[EowynW]

@chaotic life not much money in Alpacas but they are a hoot to live with. And all that fiber to enjoy. 

[chaotic life]

[mention=12073]chaotic life[/mention] not much money in Alpacas but they are a hoot to live with. And all that fiber to enjoy. 

He assures me I can have the first shavings on occasion but no one else gets them for free.

[EowynW]

6 hours ago, chaotic life said:

 

He assures me I can have the first shavings on occasion but no one else gets them for free.

 

Oooooo well then. <3

 

I had two alpaca fleeces and a beautiful brown  suri fleece. I was so excited about processing then once we got settled in after getting married, but the house we are in is so old and drafty that moths got to it first and I had to throw it out. Sad sad day. I have some roving I'm eager to start spinning though. 

[Briefly]

13 hours ago, EowynW said:

@chaotic life not much money in Alpacas but they are a hoot to live with. And all that fiber to enjoy. 

The yarn made from alpaca fur (hair?) is so soft!  But I think you are right, there is probably not a lot of money in them.  But they are sweet!

[LaLele]

20 hours ago, nausicaa said:

 

I am 32 with a degree in English. I have a fairly lucrative job in technical writing. And my friends who got degrees in communications and commercial art are also doing well for themselves. Hard work and initiative seemed to determine success far more than one's major. I know several people my age who were pushed into STEM fields they weren't interested in by their parents and then petered out after a few years of work.

You do understand if everyone begins to only get STEM degrees, the field will become much more competitive, right? 

And-- crazy talk here--  there are things to consider in life other than money. 

Since we are using personal data and I am not *that* much older than you, here is my experience.  I am 37 and my first degree was a liberal arts communications degree with an emphasis in advertising.  I am well aware there are /some/  good paying jobs out there, but they are not nearly as plentiful compared to other degrees and fields.  They just aren't.  Especially outside the bigger cities.  Look at the outlook and pay scales for our majors. 

I was lucky, out of my communication degree friends, I was able to get a job right out of school as a marketing associate (the majority of my friends were looking for 1-1.5 years), but because it was such a competitive market the pay was complete shit.  Yes, I worked my way up and when I left the field I was doing fine, but for it took 7 years to get to a decent salary.

Fast forward, I changed fields and got a masters in a STEM field.  (I realize this is not apples to apples as it is a masters not BA).  Fresh out I was offered jobs at over twice what I ended my first career at.  Money isn't everything but most people are sure as heck happier with it.  I know I am.   

If the STEM field gets overcrowded by the time my kids get to college then I might change my mind regarding my recommendations to them, but I kind of doubt it will.   What it boils down to is that all degrees are not worth the same amount of money, yet all credits cost the same.  If my kids want a less lucrative degree, then, if they want my monetary support, they will have to go to community college for the first 2 years so it costs less to attain it. 

I realize opinions and personal experiences vary.    

[VVV]

17 minutes ago, LaLele said:

If my kids want a less lucrative degree, then, if they want my monetary support, they will have to go to community college for the first 2 years so it costs less to attain it.

Just curious as to how this materially differs from the fundies we snark on for predetermining their children's futures.

Also, just a heads up since I'm guessing your kids are younger. Assuming your kids are academically strong and take the pre-AP/AP track classes in high school, there is not likely to be much for them at the community college.  They will have already had those classes in high school.  My oldest was a merit scholar and entered college with 54 AP credit hours, starting out as a second semester sophomore. He still took the full four years because he added a degree, and changed his mind on majors a few times, but my point is that there would have been literally nothing for him at the community college.

One of my friends is a science PhD who teaches college...she can always tell which kids are in her classes because of parental pressure. They don't want to be there and they are typically not the best students. Not everyone is made for the STEM field. I speak from experience on this since my father was a physicist and I was the child he hoped would follow him into physics. I tried, I really did, but I just did not love physics, and I did love playing the violin, and I have no regrets about following my heart. I am so thankful to have had parents who trusted us to make our own decisions even when they had strong feelings the other way. (PS my brother the writing major makes more money than the rest of us put together)

[LaLele]

41 minutes ago, VVV said:

Just curious as to how this materially differs from the fundies we snark on for predetermining their children's futures.

Also, just a heads up since I'm guessing your kids are younger. Assuming your kids are academically strong and take the pre-AP/AP track classes in high school, there is not likely to be much for them at the community college.  They will have already had those classes in high school.  My oldest was a merit scholar and entered college with 54 AP credit hours, starting out as a second semester sophomore. He still took the full four years because he added a degree, and changed his mind on majors a few times, but my point is that there would have been literally nothing for him at the community college.

Don't we all try to pre-determine our kids' futures to some degree?  We offer our support and guidance based on our life experiences.  I'm okay with that.   I am not going to force anyone to do anything, but my money will likely have strings attached.  Honestly, everyone's money has strings attached.  If they take an art scholarship and drop their art major they lose that scholarship.  

My kids are in grade school now, but if my kids go into college with 54 credits, well that is pretty much like starting at year 3 so that would negate the need for community college and they could go where ever and do what ever with my money and blessing.  It's not like I will only help with a STEM degree, I am just not going to pay full price for a less valuable degree.  Shrug.  

[Hane]

@nausicaa, fellow technical writer/instructional designer here. My English degrees have stood me in good stead.

[JMarie]

On 10/27/2017 at 5:43 PM, CelticGoddess said:

And keep in mind:  BJU does have a nursing program (and amazingly enough, those who graduate are good nurses).  Some of them were forced to go to BJU by their parents (that's typical, not just for nurses) and nursing is considered a respectable profession for women.  BTW:  BJU is not accredited either, and it can be hard to transfer that nursing license without jumping through hoops.

Oral Roberts also has a nursing program.

[JesusCampSongs]

Most of the fundie lites I knew growing up either became nurses or teachers (the women) or held down white collar office jobs (the men). I wasn't a member of a denomination or cult that opposed formal education, though some careers were not seen as being in line with Christian values. 

As for the college major discussion, I remember the late nineties and early oughts when getting a law degree was The Thing To Do, and we've all seen how well that's worked out for a lot of would-be attorneys. For every friend I have earning six figures doing BigLaw, I have another five to ten who are either barely scraping by or have left the legal field altogether. That's what happens when markets get saturated--openings become scarce, wages decline, and credential creep sets in-- and it's starting to happen in tech. I've already seen that among my friends with STEM degrees; for every one who is making high five figures working as an engineer, programmer, or developer, I know a good five to ten more who are doing office gigs or glorified tech support for $30,000 a year, or are living hand to mouth on the freelancing train. STEM majors aren't the sure bet that people think they are, and rushing into the flavor of the week career because it's got a good job opening/salary outlook isn't always going to work out well. This is especially the case if you don't have any passion or natural aptitude for the field in question, which leads to burning out and failing out (or tanking your GPA for no good reason). 

I'll also remark that my parents' negative attitude towards my educational decisions (my undergraduate degree is in English literature and women's and gender studies) caused a pretty big rift between us that lasted a long time. Had they tried to hold my education hostage over those disagreements, the rift would have probably persisted to the present day. As it is, I have a master's degree in a related field and a well-paying job that I love in a career with a good amount of upward mobility. I also have a great work-life balance and plenty of free time to read. It's definitely not the career either one of them had in mind for me. If they'd had their way, I'd be miserably parked in a cubicle somewhere crunching numbers or working 80+ hours a week at a legal firm. Fortunately, I went to college on a full ride, so they didn't get a vote.  

 

[Eponine]

This isn't specifically in relation to the fundies we normally discuss here, but the university where I work has a program that's specifically designed for young women coming from religious Orthodox Jewish communities in the area. Originally the program only included degrees in nursing and education (because the rabbi that set up the program/the community he serves deemed those the "appropriate" majors for female students) and classes and such were slightly modified - I guess mainly to make sure they didn't have to take classes with men. As other people have mentioned, those are the kind of professions that often are seem as acceptable for women in these fundie communities.

However, we've had the program for almost 10 years now, I think, and the majors they're allowed to pursue have expanded to basically anything - although the vast majority are still in nursing. Our nursing program is very highly respected in the area and one of our biggest programs anyway, though. I thought this was a really interesting way to get women from religious communities a very well-respected professional education, to make a link between the religious community and a university.