United Airlines Passenger Dragged from Plane

[Gobsmacked]

If my husband was an elderly paying passenger already allowed onto the plane and sat in his seat then dragged over said seat, bloodied and about to be plonked on the Tarmac by two thugs paid by the airport, airline or some random deity, I would get off with him. So would most wives?????

That part isn't weird. The rest is.

The man had been shown to his seat and complied with proper procedure. THEN the airline changed ITS plans. He did nothing wrong. 

 

[2manyKidzzz]

Both the man and his wife were bumped. She got off and he would not. 

Had United never encountered this before I wonder. Guess not. 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

My guess being I'm in the Dao's age group is an assumption was made that they were retirees and thus able to adjust easier than a businessperson.  Assumptions have a way of biting you. 

Yes, being a WOMAN in that age group I can attest to the fact that you're invisible until someone else needs your space or seat.

[RosyDaisy]

Employees, crew, whatever. A paying customer should always come first. The crew members are the ones who should have been given rental cars or whatever.

[Maggie Mae]

Personally, I think that it would be easier and better to bump one family of four, rather than disrupt two to four separate groups. The family is probably on vacation anyway. Working people have jobs and connections and things to do and places to be. But that's just my opinion, and I'm a terrible person who would love to have "no children" flights. Especially after my most recent flight. 

[Mercer]

On 4/11/2017 at 7:41 PM, KnittingOwl said:

I hate how his past has been exposed and aired as though it is somehow relevant to the situation. It doesn't change that he was assaulted. 

Yeah, it's nothing but a smear. Unless he was accused of doing an offense on the plane, it's not relevant.

[HurricaneBells]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Employees, crew, whatever. A paying customer should always come first. The crew members are the ones who should have been given rental cars or whatever.

Right! Remember customers? The people who keep your business afloat? Despicable behaviour and I hope he is successfully in suing your asses off. 

[Shadoewolf]

I understand someone agreed to be bumped for $1600 but had the person in charge laugh at them.  From what I could find by law they can offer up to $1300 but stopped at $600 plus $200 in hotel accommodations. Then there was this posting, which if true, means United is screwed.

"United Airlines Flight 'overbooked'? Seemingly not, according to this lawyer 'NegativeFeedback'

1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSELLING", which is specifically defined as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to deny boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

2. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

3. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted."

[47of74]

Chuckle....

Yeah, United would be the ones to ask.

Anyone wanna start a pool on how much longer that CEO has his job?

[Smash!]

Another point is, as an airline if you know that possibly a crew has to fly with you you block the seats in advance. United didn't do that.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Even if United were actually within their rights to do this, it was a bad call from both a customer service/security standpoint.

I hope that what happens out of this results in policy changes, and perhaps us getting more customer rights. Talk to your member of congress! 

[ViolaSebastian]

I feel like a bad person, because I would love for this to go to trial.  I would pay to see airlines' dirty laundry exposed and have a jury give Dao an enormous award. A big part of me thinks that, with the way that air travel has been going, an incident like this was inevitable. Airlines have completely lost their ability to treat people with dignity, and its about time that changed. 

ETA: this is a great article that explains why United is in the wrong on several fronts: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html

[47of74]

1 hour ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Even if United were actually within their rights to do this, it was a bad call from both a customer service/security standpoint.

I hope that what happens out of this results in policy changes, and perhaps us getting more customer rights. Talk to your member of congress! 

Well my Representative is a complete teabagger who would only vote for steerage to have more rights if his corporate benefactors told him too.  And my Senators.  God/ugh/facepalm.  Senators Grassley and Ernst.  Why the fuck did Tom Harkin have to retire?

[2manyKidzzz]

Just saw the press conference with regard to this. 

Dr Dao has a concussion, broken nose, and lost two teeth. He will undergo reconstructive surgery his sinuses are damaged too. 

The pilot is also responsible as it is his "ship" and he is the captain.

United is clearly wrong for so many reasons. And the staff are really stupid in addition to being wrong, IMO. Who called for these thugs to board the plane and drag him off??? Who gave the order to assault him?

To me it is assault. 

[ViolaSebastian]

16 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

Just saw the press conference with regard to this. 

Dr Dao has a concussion, broken nose, and lost two teeth. He will undergo reconstructive surgery his sinuses are damaged too. 

The pilot is also responsible as it is his "ship" and he is the captain.

United is clearly wrong for so many reasons. And the staff are really stupid in addition to being wrong, IMO. Who called for these thugs to board the plane and drag him off??? Who gave the order to assault him?

To me it is assault. 

Holy crap, thanks for watching this and reporting back. I just can't imagine the rage I'd feel if this happened to my elderly mother...

[2manyKidzzz]

And my husband, who has traveled a lot for business, says that Delta gives Am Ex cards and he says that the call is given while in the waiting area and people start "creeping" forward as the amount to be given goes up. 

Anyway, I'm sure he will win a lawsuit and I bet United, or any other carriers, never tries to remove a seated passenger ever again. Just guessing. 

[SamiKatz]

I just watched the press conference as well.

Seems like this team of lawyers is really looking to make this an example, gearing towards laws being changed about how airlines handle over booking.

I cannot think of a time when a company screwed up more, publicly, then United has with this incident.

I hope the Doctor and his team sue the pilot, United and the city of Chicago.

 

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

11 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

 

Anyway, I'm sure he will win a lawsuit and I bet United, or any other carriers, never tries to remove a seated passenger ever again. Just guessing. 

Considering that they shouldn't have removed him in the first place I feel very sorry for the guy. I hope he wil win a huge compensation to make up for the trauma of a concussion, broken sinuses and knocked out teeth at 69 yo. Not to mention the videos of him bleeding while dragged away being seen by the whole world and his past maliciously aired like dirty laundry. Yes he is the victim this story and some news sources victimised him twice.

[GreyhoundFan]

My senator and 20 others sent a letter to the CEO of United, demanding he answer many good questions. 

Quote

Dear Mr. Munoz:

We are deeply concerned by the recent incident aboard Flight 3411 in which a United Airlines passenger was forcibly removed from a flight from Chicago, Illinois to Louisville, Kentucky.  The Transportation Security Administration and United Airlines cleared the passenger to fly, and he trusted that he would travel on that flight in exchange for the purchase of his ticket.  While it is common practice for commercial airlines to sell more tickets than there are physical seats on an aircraft to account for potential “no-show” passengers, overselling tickets can have severe consequences for the travelling public.

At a time when the airline industry is earning record profits, it is our hope that the industry can make great strides to improve customer service and implement best practices.  Consumer trust and confidence are critical to ensure this industry continues to thrive, and we hope United Airlines will work diligently to immediately address this incident and make necessary improvements to ensure it does not occur again.

As we in Congress continue to examine this incident, please assist our efforts by responding to the following questions:

• What is United Airlines’ standard operating procedure when deciding to forcibly remove passengers, including those resulting from involuntary denied boarding?

• How many times in the last year has United Airlines removed a passenger that has already boarded a plane due to overbooking or other reasons outside the customer’s control?  How many of these passengers were forcibly removed?

• When a passenger is involuntarily denied boarding or asked to deplane due to overbooking, at what stage of the trip does United Airlines provide the passenger with a written statement describing his or her rights and explain why the passenger was involuntarily denied boarding or removed from the aircraft?  Was the passenger on Flight 3411 provided these requirements prior to his forcible removal from the aircraft?

• A federal cap exists on the amount of money a commercial airline may compensate a passenger for being involuntarily denied boarding or rescheduled for a flight.  Why was the full amount of $1,350 not offered to passengers aboard Flight 3411 before the passengers were involuntarily denied boarding and forcibly removed? Does the $1,350 cap serve any benefit to consumers?

• Was the Louisville-bound flight oversold prior to including the four United Airlines personnel reported to have been granted seats to enable them to reposition from Chicago to Louisville?  If so, were there alternative flight or ground transportation options for these four crew members that could have ensured they arrived in Louisville with sufficient time to board their next flight?  Did United Airlines have the ability to assign other crew members to that flight departing from Louisville? 

• Does United Airlines limit the number of airline tickets that may be oversold on each flight?

•  When purchasing tickets, does United Airlines provide a passenger with information that the flight has been oversold, so that ticket consumer can plan accordingly for the possibility that they may be involuntarily denied boarding for their purchased flight?

•  Describe the internal investigation that United Airlines will pursue regarding this incident, including the name(s) of the individual(s) in charge of the investigation and the expected completion date for the investigation.

•  Has United Airlines implemented any policy changes as a result of this incident?

•  Is it the policy of United Airlines to use taxpayer-funded law enforcement to forcibly remove paying passengers for non-security reasons?

•  In a dispute such as the one that occurred on Flight 3411, what recourse or appeal process do passengers have to dispute an action taken against them by United Airlines during their travel?

Thank you for your immediate attention to this matter.  Please provide a response no later than April 24, 2017.

 

Sincerely,

I hope it results in real change.

I usually fly Delta, because the times I flew United in the past were not pleasant. Delta is by no means perfect, but I have to say that the times I've been on Delta flights with issues, they've communicated very clearly. Of course I never saw someone forcibly ejected from the plane. Today I heard on the news that Delta had to cancel or postpone a crapload of flights recently due to bad weather and that they ordered hundreds of pizzas to be delivered to the inconvenienced passengers. A few years ago, I was at the airport in Minneapolis, and the gate next to me was for a flight that was being delayed because of fog in the destination. The gate agents kept updating everyone, and, since it was a several hour delay, they actually brought out drink carts and snack carts, giving everyone drinks and breakfast sandwiches. Those drinks and sandwiches probably cost Delta less than $200, but they bough a lot of goodwill.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

On 4/13/2017 at 0:01 PM, 2manyKidzzz said:

And my husband, who has traveled a lot for business, says that Delta gives Am Ex cards and he says that the call is given while in the waiting area and people start "creeping" forward as the amount to be given goes up. 

 

Mr Wrangler has on several occasions accepted the offer to be bumped.

Mainly when it was convenient to him.

However he was super-elite on Air Canada as well as 3 US airlines, meaning he could quickly be re-routed  and not lose any of his segments.

 

 

[GreyhoundFan]

I saw this interesting article tonight: "Delta OKs offers of up to $9,950 to flyers who give up seats"

Quote

Delta is letting employees offer customers nearly $10,000 in compensation to give up seats on overbooked flights, hoping to avoid an uproar like the one that erupted at United after a passenger was dragged off a jet.

United is taking steps too. It will require employees seeking a seat on a plane to book it at least an hour before departure, a policy that might have prevented last Sunday’s confrontation.

Those and other changes show airlines are scrambling to respond to a public-relations nightmare — the video showing airport officers violently yanking and dragging 69-year-old David Dao from his seat on a sold-out United Express flight.

Dao and three others were ordered off the plane after four airline employees showed up at the last minute and demanded seats so they could be in place to operate a flight the next day in Louisville, Kentucky.

On Friday, a United spokeswoman said the airline changed its policy to require traveling employees to book a flight at least 60 minutes before departure. Had the rule been in place last Sunday, United Express Flight 3411 still would have been overbooked by four seats, but United employees could have dealt with the situation in the gate area instead of on the plane.

Delta Air Lines is moving to make it easier to find customers willing to give up their seats. In an internal memo obtained Friday by The Associated Press, Delta said gate agents can offer up to $2,000, up from a previous maximum of $800, and supervisors can offer up to $9,950, up from $1,350.

United said it is reviewing its compensation policies. The airline would not disclose its current payment limit.

Other airlines said they were examining their policies. American Airlines updated its rules to say that no passenger who has boarded the plane will be removed to give the seat to someone else.

None would describe their limits on paying passengers.

When there aren’t enough seats, airlines usually ask for volunteers by offering travel vouchers, gift cards or cash.

Last year Delta got more passengers to give up their seats than any other U.S. airline, partly by paying more than most of the others.

As a result, it had the lowest rate among the largest U.S. airlines of bumping people off flights against their will — something that is legal but alienates customers and requires the airline to pay compensation of up to $1,350 per person.

Overselling flights is a fact of life in the airline business. Industry officials say that it is necessary because some passengers don’t show up, and that overbooking keeps fares down by reducing the number of empty seats.

The practice has been questioned, however, since video of the United Express incident went viral. United Continental CEO Oscar Munoz’s initial attempts to apologize were roundly criticized. On Friday, company Chairman Robert Milton said the board supported Munoz.

“We need to use this regrettable event as a defining moment and pivot off it to craft friendly policies,” Milton said in a note to employees.

The dragging has turned into a public-relations nightmare for the entire industry, not just United, and led to calls from politicians and consumer advocates to suspend or ban overbooking.

Ben Schlappig, a travel blogger who first wrote about the Delta compensation increase, said it shows Delta is trying to reduce forced bumping. He said he couldn’t imagine many situations in which people wouldn’t jump at nearly $10,000.

Delta no doubt hopes that gate agents and their supervisors won’t need to make maximum offers, and the financial cost to the airline is likely to be limited. If Delta paid $9,950 to every person it bumped involuntarily last year, that would total $12 million. Delta earned nearly $4.4 billion.

Raising the limits “lets them solve some PR problems” and might head off U.S. Transportation Department regulations to curb overbooking, said another travel blogger, Gary Leff. “They can say, ‘Look, we’re already solving the problem.'”

An AP analysis of government data shows that in 2015 and 2016, Delta paid an average of $1,118 in compensation for every passenger that it denied a seat. Southwest Airlines paid $758, United $565, and American Airlines $554.

After the incident in Chicago, critics questioned why United didn’t offer more when no passengers accepted the airline’s $800 offer for volunteers to give up their seats.

“If you offer enough money, even the guy going to a funeral will sell his seat,” said Ross Aimer, a retired United pilot.

For almost $10K, I would seriously consider giving up my seat, as long as I didn't have an emergency situation.

[sawasdee]

On 4/13/2017 at 9:10 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

 

ETA: this is a great article that explains why United is in the wrong on several fronts: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/04/united-passenger-removal-reporting-management-fail.html

In the comments  on this article, it is explained that the Dr Dao with the criminal record is a different Dr Dao.Whoever released this information to smear him didn't do their research. And if he can show in his legal case that it was the airline - he's got defamation to add to his case for assault. I truly hope he can show it was United who released that info!

ETA there are others who are disputing this, and saying it is the same Dr Dao, despite his middle names being different.......another rabbit hole!

[mango_fandango]

Dr Dao has won his settlement. Conditions mean we won't know the exact amount.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39739737

[ShepherdontheRock]

16 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

Dr Dao has won his settlement. Conditions mean we won't know the exact amount.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39739737

Not gonna lie, I was kinda hoping this would go to trial so Dao could stick it to them.

But I guess the fact that we don't know the exact amount of money, and he settled so quickly means, hopefully, they offered him a good chunk. 

And this has brought attention to all the ways airlines screw us over. 

[47of74]

8 hours ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

Not gonna lie, I was kinda hoping this would go to trial so Dao could stick it to them.

But I guess the fact that we don't know the exact amount of money, and he settled so quickly means, hopefully, they offered him a good chunk. 

And this has brought attention to all the ways airlines screw us over. 

I hope United is writing the good doctor a check with lots and lots of zeros on it.

I know it won't make up for everything, but if makes United take a financial hit enough that idiot of a CEO gets his ass canned that would be good.

I see the guy in charge of security at Chicago airports got his ass canned;

abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/chicago-ohare-security-chief-fired-weeks-united-flub-47080152

Quote

The head of security at Chicago's airports has been fired, just weeks after a passenger was dragged from a United Airlines plane by security officers at O'Hare International Airport.

The Department of Aviation said in a statement Thursday that Jeffrey Redding "has been terminated from his duties" at O'Hare and Midway airports. No reason was given.

Separately, the Chicago Tribune recently reported that Redding was fired from his previous job for sexual harassment in 2015.

I hope the city of Chicago is also having to pay the Doctor a good amount of $$$ too.  The only thing that will change Chicago government - especially with its current mayor - is having to shell out a whole shitload of money when it's people indulge their psychotic urges.