Ray Comfort is getting owned

[Deleted02]

Thanks for posting this!!

Add me to the Stuart love. Maybe we can get him to join this board.

[tehgoobster]

That was awesome! What did they say after they hung up the phone?

Anyway, I've always thought that the whole Way of the Master spiel is pretty weak. Telling a non-believer that God is real because it says so in the Bible isn't going to have any effect whatsoever on most of them, just as telling a non-believer that God said such-and-such because it was in the Quran or any other religious text isn't going to have an effect. They're not going to believe a particular holy text just because someone claims it's true. It has to be proven. Ray's hypocritical, too, because he wouldn't automatically accept the claims of other belief systems just because someone claimed they were God's true teachings. He's selectively skeptical. I think that Richard Dawkins made a good point when he said that Christians easily reject other gods and goddesses because they believe that there isn't sufficient evidence to support belief in their existence, whereas atheists just take it one god further and reject the Christian God on the same basis.

[marmalade]

Bravo, VodouDoll! I know it was draining listening to Ray Comfort's voice - twice! Stuart sounds like a smart guy who is using his education.

Oh, and Ray, airplanes don't break the the law of gravity. (HINT: Gravity is what makes them crash!)

Kind of like Ray's "argument."

Pwned by a 22 year old COLLEGE student. This is precisely why Ray, Dougie, BillyBoy et al. want to keep 'em stupid.

[Witsec6]

I absolutely *hate* that condescending banter they had about "desire".

[Patsy]

Very enjoyable indeed, thank you, Vodoudoll.

[Bookworm]

I was wrong. I'm totally 100% in love with Stuart.

Me too.

[hoipolloi]

Thank you!

Ray Comfort is a

As for Stuart -

[finleeport]

I just don't understand Ray Comfort, Todd and even Kirk Cameron. Those three are so un-progressive and stubborn. What is actually their problem?

I was fundie long time ago but I was never that kind of fundie. And I will admit that although I'm Christian, I also believe that God could also be Zeus, Odin, the Horned God, Ra, the Mother Goddess, etc. I believe this God (which I also believe is genderless) has many faces and titles. And I do not exclude science or evolution, I in fact believe in evolution and doesn't show any contradiction. And I do admit that I believe in a hell and in demons but not in the fundie way. I believe there's more good in this world and in humanity than bad, its just we're too careless or indifferent to see it.

[Lainey]

Thanks VodouDoll! You and Stuart are awesome.

[emmyfair]

That was epic. Stuart was amazing. Thank you so much, VoDouDoll for taking the time to post this!

[FloraDoraDolly]

That was awesome! What did they say after they hung up the phone?

Anyway, I've always thought that the whole Way of the Master spiel is pretty weak. Telling a non-believer that God is real because it says so in the Bible isn't going to have any effect whatsoever on most of them, just as telling a non-believer that God said such-and-such because it was in the Quran or any other religious text isn't going to have an effect. They're not going to believe a particular holy text just because someone claims it's true. It has to be proven. Ray's hypocritical, too, because he wouldn't automatically accept the claims of other belief systems just because someone claimed they were God's true teachings. He's selectively skeptical. I think that Richard Dawkins made a good point when he said that Christians easily reject other gods and goddesses because they believe that there isn't sufficient evidence to support belief in their existence, whereas atheists just take it one god further and reject the Christian God on the same basis.

A better approach for someone with a background in anthropology would be to point out that virtually all human cultures throughout history have had some sort of god/religion, so one could argue that this is an inborn trait. And if so, where did it come from? Why does it exist? Of course, this would probably lead to some type of universalism, which Ray Comfort would scorn.

I wonder how Ray would react if someone answered no to the good person question? Personally, I don't believe there is such a thing as a good person or a bad person. All people do some good things and some bad things. While there are some exceptions (such as the tribes Stuart mentioned), generally speaking there are many similarities between various cultures' notions of what is wrong/bad/sinful/taboo. Again, this leads to universalism, which includes Jesus but also includes other people and ideas that Christians do not believe in.

[Sola]

...snipping awesome transcript...

VodouDoll, can I have permission to copy and past this transcript elsewhere please? I am on another forum where the members would absolutely love to read it. Apparently the re-runs of yesterdays show are silent for some reason too....

[StarrieEyedKat]

Ray: Stuart, there are people in America who rape and murder and don’t think they’ve done wrong. That doesn’t exonerate them from their guilt. The court will still grab them, and it’s the same with God. You’ve violated His law. Ignorance is no excuse.

Stuart: You didn’t listen to my argument. My argument was that my conscience is based on the socialization I’ve come through. That because I’ve grown up in a Western culture. I’ve been told these things are wrong. But the tribesman in Africa who didn’t go through the same cultural upbringing as me doesn’t think it’s wrong, and doesn’t have the same conscience as me. So if God was there to provide the conscience, he would’ve provided all of us equally, is what you said, that all the biblical laws you’re putting forward go for all people.

Ray: So you’re saying a man in Africa, if he rapes and murders a woman, there’s no courts?

Stuart: Oh, no! I’m not saying any man in all of Africa.

Ray: Then who are you talking about?

Stuart: I’m talking about a specific tribe in Africa that—

You know, I've seen a lot of Ray Comfort's stupidity via quotage, but is he genuinely so dim that he didn't know what Stuart was talking about, or was he just playing dumb because he knew he was being pwned? I mean...the point Stuart was trying to make was pretty flipping clear...

[flojo]

I have friends who use rays stuff. I can quote a bunch of it...:p

They tend to be a little tract obsessed.

But I'm from NZ, so his stuff is kinda popular

He's the uncle of a couple of people I know...

ETA: awesome transcript, btw!

Team Stuart :dance:

[Guest Anonymous]

Fantastic - well done for capturing that!

I find it hard to believe though, that this Ray person has survived so long without being challenged previously. Does he only preach at people of low intelligence or poor education?

[Sola]

Fantastic - well done for capturing that!

I find it hard to believe though, that this Ray person has survived so long without being challenged previously. Does he only preach at people of low intelligence or poor education?

Oh Ray gets challenged every single day. He ignores it and carries on regardless. He is the clown of fundie land.

[debrand]

VodouDoll, can I have permission to copy and past this transcript elsewhere please? I am on another forum where the members would absolutely love to read it. Apparently the re-runs of yesterdays show are silent for some reason too....

I'd lilke to put it on my blog. Hopefully, one day the real Stuart will know how awesome we all think that he is.

[debrand]

Oh Ray gets challenged every single day. He ignores it and carries on regardless. He is the clown of fundie land.

Many of the same points Stuart made are given to Ray every day on his blog. He ignores them.

It is difficult to understand why his methods are so popular among Christian fundamentalists.

[MrsYoungie]

Many of the same points Stuart made are given to Ray every day on his blog. He ignores them.

It is difficult to understand why his methods are so popular among Christian fundamentalists.

Because his methods work on the casual believer or non-believer. Even if 90% of Americans say they are Christian - most are just giving the default answer. And even a lot of atheists are just atheist by default. My sons are this. So when Ray ambushes some random person on a college campus (cause that makes it seem like he is asking smart people!) what he is most likely to get is a person with unexamined religious thoughts. The type of person who thinks there is "a higher power". This type of person is just going about their business when some random chick hands them a cell phone with Ray on the other end with his rehearsed patter ready for the kill. This time - he got a thoughtful atheist and got totally pwned.

We need to savour this one, because next time he'll get some random yahoo who is totally caught unawares and flounders under Ray's questions just because they couldn't organize their thoughts quickly enough before Ray danced around with another stupid question and made them look foolish.

I would be bad at this. I don't think quickly enough and sometimes I'm stuck searching for words. I'm glad it was Stuart and not me on that cell phone!

[FuManchu]

The "African tribe" point is classic Ray. Someone else makes a generalising statement that they clearly don't know the details behind - so Ray pushes it mercilessly. "Where? When? How do you know? Are you sure?" Meanwhile, Ray confidently states that the Bible's rules on personal behaviour will send you to Hell if broken - and simply ignores the slightest scrutiny of that belief. That standard of proof can't be allowed to apply to him, or his whole approach falls down.

[VodouDoll]

I'm glad it was Stuart and not me on that cell phone!

Me too! I wouldn't have been nearly as calm and articulate. I was listening with headphones on at my desk and I think my grin just kept getting bigger and bigger. The best part was how flustered Ray got. He just kept trying to talk over Stuart, sticking to his script about hell and damnation and God's wrath is upon you, which is usually enough to scare his victims into being born again, while Stuart kept calmly trying to have an actual thoughtful discussion about the questions Ray was posing and wouldn't let Ray bully him into silence, no matter how many times Ray yelled. He sounded genuinely regretful that he didn't have the specific name of the tribe in Africa for Ray.

What did they say after they hung up the phone?

Ray tried to say something about how he would've kept talking to Stuart except his microphone was giving him weird feedback. I'm so sure. Then they ended the show.

I wonder how Ray would react if someone answered no to the good person question?

I've been listening to this show off and on for a few years now, and the only people I've ever heard say no are either convicts or already born again.

VodouDoll, can I have permission to copy and past this transcript elsewhere please?

Post away! Which forum? Weird about the reruns being silent. Todd spent almost the whole episode plugging the hell out of some upcoming event at the Creation Museum. You'd think they'd want to give that as much air time as possible.

is he genuinely so dim that he didn't know what Stuart was talking about, or was he just playing dumb because he knew he was being pwned?

I've never been able to make up my mind. Sometimes I think he must be an idiot. But sometimes, when I read his blog, it seems more like he's selectively ignorant and he must consciously choose to completely shut down and retreat to his script rather than honestly and openly engage valid, reasonable objections. There's a reason he never answers blog comments from Steven J, or even acknowledges that they've been made. I think that Ray is a dishonest person.

I find it hard to believe though, that this Ray person has survived so long without being challenged previously. Does he only preach at people of low intelligence or poor education?

You should check out his blog at raycomfortfood.blogspot.com. There's a commenter named Steven J who politely and brilliantly contradicts every single post that Ray makes. Ray just pretends he's not even there. I've learned more about evolution from Steven J than I ever did from my bio teachers in school. I think he must be a professor somewhere.

I'd lilke to put it on my blog.

Go for it! I hope Stuart finds all this some day and realizes that we think he was great.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Thank you, VoDouDoll for posting the transcript! As a hard of hearing person I really do appreciate being able to witness the pwnage going on!

[formergothardite]

We need to find Stuart and let him know he has a fan club! I would never do good with that sort of conversation since I get flustered easily, but Ray came off looking like and idiot. An angry idiot who was ticked off things didn't go his way.

[Sola]

Thanks a lot! The forum is WeAreSmrt.

[VodouDoll]

I still have the audio file on my phone too. If anyone knows how to take something from the Voice Memos app and post it online, you guys could give it a listen.

I just went to wretchedradio.com to check and they're rerunning the ep now! If you start up their media player now, Stuart will probably be on within an hour or so. They'll start airing their new show at 2:30, though, so this will probably be their last Stuart go-around.