Ray Comfort is getting owned

[VodouDoll]

by a Buddhist philosophy student right now on Wretched Radio, if you're near streaming internet.

ETA: It's over now, but will be rerunning until tomorrow at 2:30pm eastern at wretchedradio.com. They rerun the whole show at once, though, and this was just the last 15 minutes, so you'll have to time it carefully unless you feel like sitting through an hour about the creation museum first.

[browncoatslytherin]

i can't get it to work for me, tell us all about it!

[debrand]

Can you give us a run down of what was said?

[VodouDoll]

I will when I get home, promise. I'll try to type a transcript. It was amazing. The kid called him out for all of the logical fallacies in his good person test and finally Ray was just like, "Whatever, you're going to hell," and hung up on him.

[browncoatslytherin]

he HUNG UP ON HIM??! there must have been some seroius ownage going on. can't wait to read your notes!

[doggie]

I don't want to see him get owned I can't imagine all the lube that would be involved.

[tehgoobster]

OMG! I can't believe he hung up on him! :shock: I can't wait to hear more about this in detail.

[tehgoobster]

he HUNG UP ON HIM??! there must have been some seroius ownage going on. can't wait to read your notes!

When Ray's wrong, he tends to try to spin it like he was just joking in the first place. He claimed he was joking after the whole banana debacle, but I think he now admits that he was wrong. He also made a blatantly incorrect statement about blind spots in the human eye, but when he was called on it, he tried to spin it like he meant something else (even though it was quite obvious that he meant what he said the first time he said it). I have a feeling that he'll try to spin this, too, if enough people call him on it.

[browncoatslytherin]

When Ray's wrong, he tends to try to spin it like he was just joking in the first place. He claimed he was joking after the whole banana debacle, but I think he now admits that he was wrong. He also made a blatantly incorrect statement about blind spots in the human eye, but when he was called on it, he tried to spin it like he meant something else (even though it was quite obvious that he meant what he said the first time he said it). I have a feeling that he'll try to spin this, too, if enough people call him on it.

i would actually love to read that bullshit. :P haha

[bananacat]

i would actually love to read that bullshit. :P haha

Yeah, it's too bad that we can't harness the energy of bullshit for power. If we could, Ray Comfort alone would be enough to achieve energy independence and we'd never need oil again. He is a Grade A bullshitter.

[VodouDoll]

Okay, they just replayed it and I recorded it. I'll type out the transcript now. Trish was in on it too!

[browncoatslytherin]

vodoudoll...i love you for doing that. *big hugs and pie!*

[Sola]

When Ray's wrong, he tends to try to spin it like he was just joking in the first place. He claimed he was joking after the whole banana debacle, but I think he now admits that he was wrong. He also made a blatantly incorrect statement about blind spots in the human eye, but when he was called on it, he tried to spin it like he meant something else (even though it was quite obvious that he meant what he said the first time he said it). I have a feeling that he'll try to spin this, too, if enough people call him on it.

Oh he does. He did it the other day too. Someone mentioned the Duggars and said that J'Chelle needs to get her tubes tied. Ray got irate and said something along the lines of, 'It's her body, she can do what she wants with it. This is America' which was so ironic as this happened in the comments of one of his anti-abortion diatribes.

He was called out on it and of course he said he was joking. Not that anyone believed him.

[VodouDoll]

Part one, the first 8 minutes or so. I have four minutes left to transcribe.

The players for those of you who aren't familiar.

Todd: Host of the Wretched Radio show. He's kind of like if a used car salesman/failed standup comedian/fundie-lite egomaniac had an open mic 2.5 hours a day, every single day.

Trish: One of Ray's minions. She accosts college students and asks them if they want to be on a radio show about spirituality. When the unsuspecting kids agree, she hands them her cell phone and sics Ray on them.

Ray: Ray Comfort, needs no introduction except that he and Tony Miano actually charge people a lot of money to attend their Master's Academy and learn how to do what he attempts to do with Stuart.

Stuart: Ray's victim of the day

We open with Trish telling Ray that she felt bad for him that his new book has all bad Amazon reviews, so if he notices a lone good one that’s the one she left. Then they trash Richard Dawkins for a bit. Then we begin:

Todd: All right, Trish, where are you, kiddo?

Trish: I’m at a university today. The University of North Texas in Denton which is about a half hour from where I live. I found a really nice young man, practically the first person I asked if he’d be on the air and he agreed to do it. His name is Stuart, he’s 22 years old. He’s a student here, a philosophy major, he was a Buddhist monk for about two years, he still practices Buddhism. He is an American, born here in America, and I said, “Are you sure about your faith? How sure are you?†He said, “Very sure,†and I said, “Well, would you bet your life that there isn’t a god and an afterlife?†He said, “Absolutely, I don’t think that there’s anything after we die.†He says the Buddhist religion is pretty much an atheistic religion, so that’s Stuart.

Todd: Yeah, I’ve learned over the years, Ray, and I don’t know if you’ve experienced this, but some people you read it’s atheistic, and other people say, no it’s not, they actually worship a lot of different idols and maybe even Buddha himself. So maybe there’s a sort of consensus, but have you experienced that?

Ray: Yes.

Todd: It seems a little fuzzy. But okay, here’s one who doesn’t believe in God and claims it’s atheistic.

Trish: That’s correct.

Todd: Ray, isn’t Buddhism the one that says “Get rid of all your desires?†Is he really desiring to get that philosophy degree?

Ray: Does he really desire to come on the radio? [they all laugh]

[Todd plugs Trish’s website, then we get to it. They might wind up posting Stuart on fishwithtrish.com]

Ray: Stuart, how you doing?

Stuart: Not bad, how about you?

Ray: Good. My name is Ray, thanks for coming on the program. So you’re a philosophy major.

Stuart: Yes, sir.

Ray: And you’ve been here 22 years?

Stuart: Absolutely.

Ray: So what have you discovered? What’s the purpose of man’s existence on earth? What are we doing here?

Stuart: What are we doing here? I don’t think we’re doing a whole lot here, and I don’t find a lot of purpose besides what we give it. It’s probably up to each individual person, what they decide.

Ray: Okay, so why were we created?

Stuart: Well, I don’t think we were created.

Ray: So we just happened?

Stuart: Yeah. We came about.

Ray: So there was nothing that created everything? Is that what you’re saying?

Stuart: I don’t believe there was anything that created everything.

Ray: Right. So nothing created everything. That’s what you’re saying.

Stuart: [trying to follow Ray’s reasoning] Nothing came out of…

Ray: Everything came out of nothing, right? That’s a scientific impossibility. If nothing created something, then the nothing is something. It’s got creative force.

Stuart: There are simply gaps there. We’re not aware of how it happened yet.

Ray: So you’re not saying nothing created everything. You’re saying something created everything, you just don’t know what it was.

Stuart: I guess that’s a better way to put it.

Ray: So it could be God. That’s what you’re telling me.

Stuart: If that’s what you choose to call it. I think it would depend on how we define God.

Ray: That’s great! So you’re not an atheist. You’d be an agnostic. You don’t know what created everything in the beginning but you believe it was something.

Stuart: Whenever I say I’m an atheist, I’m an atheist when it comes to the Judeo-Christian form of God. I don’t believe in a God that fits those properties. If I’m going to call myself an agnostic it would probably be technically right, but most people wouldn’t understand what I’m saying.

Ray: [laughs at him] Okay, so you believe in a God of some sort, but just not the Christian one that holds you morally responsible.

Stuart: I believe there’s a small possibility that one could be there.

Ray: What percentage is a small possibility that God could exist?

Stuart: I believe that it’s a very very small one. I find it more likely that the universe came out of complex science that we don’t fully understand now than that we were created by a God.

Ray: That’s interesting. If there is a heaven, do you think you’re good enough to go there?

Stuart: If there was a heaven? But I don’t think there’s a heaven.

Ray: Yeah, but if there was, would you think you’re a good enough person to go there? Are you morally a good person?

Stuart: You’re posing a false dichotomy. You’re saying, “If you could do this, then that.†But I don’t accept your premise.

Ray: I’ll drop the if. Are. You. A. Good. Person.

Stuart: Yes.

Ray: How many lies have you told in your life?

Stuart: Probably quite a few.

Ray: What do you call someone who tells lies?

Stuart: I’d probably call them a liar, but lying doesn’t make someone a bad person.

Ray: Have you ever stolen anything in your life, even if it’s small, irrespective of its value?

Stuart: Oh, yeah, I’ve stolen quite a few things.

Ray: What do you call someone who steals things?

Stuart: Probably a thief.

Ray: Have you ever used God’s name in vain?

Stuart: I’m pretty sure I have.

Ray: Stuart, that’s blasphemy when you take God’s name and use it as a cuss word. Jesus said whoever looks upon a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart. Have you ever looked on a woman with lust?

Stuart: Oh, yes.

Ray: Stuart, listen to this. You’re not a good person. You’re like the rest of us. By your own admission you’re a liar, a thief, a blasphemer, and an adulterer at heart. And that’s only four of the ten commandments. No wonder you deny the Christian God, because you’re guilty before him. Does that make sense?

Stuart: I deny the Christian God because I have philosophical problems with the premises that make him. I don’t—

Ray: But—

Stuart: I don’t think a being can be omniscient and omnipotent at the same time. Those properties are contradictory.

Ray: Well, that’s not the question!

Stuart: That is the question. I don’t believe a being can be omnipresent and transcendent all at once. Those are contradictory. Rousseau pointed out that a being can’t be transcendent and omnipresent. So I don’t believe in the Judeo-Christian classical conception of God. You asked me the question earlier—

Ray: STUART!

Stuart: if there’s a chance a being could have made the world, and yeah, there’s a possibility, but even if a being made us it doesn’t follow that that being is the Judeo-Christian form of God.

Ray: STUART!

Stuart: I’m done now. You can go ahead.

Ray: Okay, if I don’t believe a jumbo jet can fly because it breaks the laws of gravity, it doesn’t not exist because I don’t believe in it. My unbelief doesn’t change reality. And you have violated the law of the Holy God, you have a conscience, you know right from wrong—

Stuart: But see, what you said right there, that’s the fallacy of absolute knowledge. You say that because you don’t know something, therefore another possibility is obvious. But that doesn’t make a true statement.

Ray: [quietly] That’s right. [louder] Okay. So. By your own admission you’re a laying thief, a blasphemer, an adulterer at heart, and according to the Bible if you die in your sins you’ll end up in hell. I don’t want that to happen to you, Stuart. You’re without excuse. You’ve got creation as evidence—

Stuart: But right there, you see? You’ve committed the fallacy of the circular argument. When you said that I’ve done these things, therefore the Bible says this, and how do you know it’s true? Because the Bible says it’s true. You’ve entered into both a slippery slope and a circular argument.

Ray: Yeah.

Stuart: So your argument is incorrect.

Ray: That’s great. Stuart, I wouldn’t be in your shoes on judgment day for all the tea in China! Because you’ve violated God’s law! You have to face him whether you believe in him or not, and I plead with you to come to your senses, acknowledge your sins, and repent and trust the savior!

Stuart: If you can oppose any of the arguments I’ve put forward, show me how the properties aren’t contradictory, show me how the argument based on the Bible isn’t a circular fallacy—

Ray: I don’t need to, Stuart, because you’ve got a conscience!

[debrand]

Stuart is doing a fantastic job! :dance:

[browncoatslytherin]

i'm liking this stuart guy...

[Visionoyahweh]

Bravo, VodouDoll! I know it was draining listening to Ray Comfort's voice - twice! Stuart sounds like a smart guy who is using his education.

Oh, and Ray, airplanes don't break the the law of gravity. (HINT: Gravity is what makes them crash!)

[Burris]

Aaaaand...stickied!

[browncoatslytherin]

Aaaaand...stickied!

yes! this definitely deserves it. something good to read when we're exasperated by fundie behavior.

[demgirl]

I'm sort of half in love with Stuart. Wait...

Ray: That’s interesting. If there is a heaven, do you think you’re good enough to go there?

Stuart: If there was a heaven? But I don’t think there’s a heaven.

Ray: Yeah, but if there was, would you think you’re a good enough person to go there? Are you morally a good person?

Stuart: You’re posing a false dichotomy. You’re saying, “If you could do this, then that.†But I don’t accept your premise.

I was wrong. I'm totally 100% in love with Stuart.

[VodouDoll]

Part Two

Stuart: If you can show how they’re not those fallacies then I will agree with you right here on the radio for everyone to hear.

Ray: Stuart!

Stuart: But I don’t believe you can make that argument because Christians haven’t been able to solve that problem for me.

Ray: Stuart! You’ve got a conscience. You know right from wrong. You’ve violated God’s commandments. His wrath abides on you. You’re an enemy of God through wicked works and that’s why you deny His existence. You’re like a criminal who says, “I don’t believe in the police, I don’t believe in the judge, I don’t believe in the electric chair.†But it doesn’t change a thing, what he believes or doesn’t believe. You have to face the reality of a God whom you’ve angered. Where did your conscience come from?

Stuart: I believe it was a combination of social and natural causes. How I was brought up brought me to—

Ray: What do you mean natural causes? Were you born with a conscience?

Stuart: I was born with some components of what we would determine to be the conscience.

Ray: Okay, now why does it just speak to you of morality? It doesn’t speak to you when you put on the wrong color shirt, but if you steal something it accuses you. Why is that?

Stuart: Oh, now you’re talking about the social part of morality.

Ray: Mm-hm.

Stuart: I was taught that by my parents and society around me.

Ray: So, Stuart, if your parents hadn’t told you not to steal and you stole, you wouldn’t know you’re doing wrong? If your parents didn’t tell you not to murder and you murdered or raped, you’re saying you wouldn’t know it was wrong? That wouldn’t hold in a court of law.

Stuart: I trust you’re an intelligent person. You’ve probably taken some anthropology courses and you know there are tribes in Africa that do steal and it’s not considered bad because they don’t have that same kind of moral judgment as we do.

Ray: Who is this?

Stuart: Where was God whenever he created those people? Did he not give them a conscience?

Ray: Stuart, where was this? Be specific.

Stuart: In Africa. And I don’t have it with me to give it to you. Or was it the Easter Islands? One of those.

Ray: Stuart, there are people in America who rape and murder and don’t think they’ve done wrong. That doesn’t exonerate them from their guilt. The court will still grab them, and it’s the same with God. You’ve violated His law. Ignorance is no excuse.

Stuart: You didn’t listen to my argument. My argument was that my conscience is based on the socialization I’ve come through. That because I’ve grown up in a Western culture. I’ve been told these things are wrong. But the tribesman in Africa who didn’t go through the same cultural upbringing as me doesn’t think it’s wrong, and doesn’t have the same conscience as me. So if God was there to provide the conscience, he would’ve provided all of us equally, is what you said, that all the biblical laws you’re putting forward go for all people.

Ray: So you’re saying a man in Africa, if he rapes and murders a woman, there’s no courts?

Stuart: Oh, no! I’m not saying any man in all of Africa.

Ray: Then who are you talking about?

Stuart: I’m talking about a specific tribe in Africa that—

Ray: Todd would you like to talk to Stuart?

Todd: No, I’m good. [He so doesn’t want to get in the middle of this, even if it means hanging Ray out to dry. But he does jump in.] Hey, Stuart, could you in ten seconds…. You said that if Christianity could overcome your big objection…. What is that big objection?

Stuart: Well, I’ve got a couple. I don’t see how the God put forth by Judeo-Christian belief, that there’s a being who’s both omnipresent and omnipotent, I’ve got a problem with the whole how can evil exist, I’ve got a problem with transcendence and omnipresence, I’ve got a problem with the basis of the argument for God’s existence being the Bible claiming there is a God, because that provides a circular argument—

Todd: So despite the fact that some very thoughtful individuals have explanations for them, something tells me you wouldn’t receive them because it doesn’t sound like you’re all that interested, are you.

Stuart: No, I truly am interested! Or else I wouldn’t be on the radio with you!

Todd: Okay, thank you very much!

Stuart: And—

Todd: Talk to the lady who handed you the phone.

Stuart: I would really, really like to talk to—

Ray and Todd hang up on him.

Fin

I should say, too, that this whole time Stuart is never anything but calm and pleasant and even-tempered, even cheerful, and Ray keeps raising his voice and haranguing the poor guy.

[Visionoyahweh]

Stuart: No, I truly am interested! Or else I wouldn’t be on the radio with you!

Todd: Okay, thank you very much!

Stuart: And—

Todd: Talk to the lady who handed you the phone.

Stuart: I would really, really like to talk to—

Ray and Todd hang up on him.

LOL, that's some conscience you've got, Ray & Todd.

[browncoatslytherin]

that's awesome :D thank you for posting!

[Guest Anonymous]

This is perfect. I think this thread has attained enlightenment.

Thank you VodouDoll for the transcript! You are awesome and so is Stuart. I hope he googles and finds this someday.

[FJSharkJump]

Oh, I loved this! :D Thanks for making my day!!!! :dance: