Can someone tell me what fundy-lite actually is?

[formergothardite]

Can you give any reason to not automatically support it? If someone asked me if I support interacial marriage, I would say yes, even though it is legal. There is no reason to not give it my automatic support. You must have some reason you don't want to say that you would automatically support gay marriage. What is it about gay marriage that makes you pause and say that you don't want to automatically give it your support?

[Fundie Lite]

Can you give any reason to not automatically support it? If someone asked me if I support interacial marriage, I would say yes, even though it is legal. There is no reason to not give it my automatic support. You must have some reason you don't want to say that you would automatically support gay marriage. What is it about gay marriage that makes you pause and say that you don't want to automatically give it your support?

I guess that's what makes you and I different.

[formergothardite]

No, what makes us different is that you can't even explain why you won't automaticall support gay marriage. When I didn't support gay marriage, at least I could explain why.

It should be simple, just say, this is why I can't give it my automatic support. Is it your religion? Is it something about gay people? There is nothing hard here, there is something about gay marriage that you don't like and that is why you can't automatically support it.

[Fundie Lite]

No, what makes us different is that you can't even explain why you won't automaticall support gay marriage. When I didn't support gay marriage, at least I could explain why.

It should be simple, just say, this is why I can't give it my automatic support. Is it your religion? Is it something about gay people? There is nothing hard here, there is something about gay marriage that you don't like and that is why you can't automatically support it.

Look, you want me to say that I think gays are evil or bad or sinful or something along that line. Since I'm not going to do that, I'm going to stop debating with you about this. I'm undecided about this issue. If I should change my mind, I'll let you know.

[2xx1xy1JD]

How would you classify ethnic evangelicals?

Most of the religious Christians that I know fall into this category. They don't really stand out in dress at all, they are often in urban areas, and they tend to be very religious and very involved with the church community. Most would not support gay marriage.

[MysteryHaggis]

How would you classify ethnic evangelicals?

Most of the religious Christians that I know fall into this category. They don't really stand out in dress at all, they are often in urban areas, and they tend to be very religious and very involved with the church community. Most would not support gay marriage.

Stupid question, but what's an "ethnic evangelical"?

[1004srs]

Quick reply in general....

It is okay to waffle on hot topics. It shows you are a thinking human being and not just blindly following the herd or what is popular opinion at the time.

[infooverload]

Is anyone disturbed by the term non denominational. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Basically every church in my experience has roots in some kind of denomination and that denominations belief systems. For example a lot of "non denominational" churches are basically Pentecostal and last time I checked Pentecostal is a denomination. Anybody else have thoughts regarding this? Also people throw the badge of non denominational on a church as though it automatically means accepting and the truth is vastly different.

[yewchapel]

Is anyone disturbed by the term non denominational. This is a big pet peeve of mine. Basically every church in my experience has roots in some kind of denomination and that denominations belief systems. For example a lot of "non denominational" churches are basically Pentecostal and last time I checked Pentecostal is a denomination. Anybody else have thoughts regarding this? Also people throw the badge of non denominational on a church as though it automatically means accepting and the truth is vastly different.

I find that non-charismatic, non-denominational churches often have roots in Baptist churches. I agree with you that non-denominational doesn't really mean anything, since most churches have roots in some kind of denomination.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Stupid question, but what's an "ethnic evangelical"?

A lot of the fundies that we snark on here are decidedly white, not particularly ethnic Americans.

The evangelicals that I happen to know in real life are Filippino, Korean, Chinese, Black, Guyanese, etc. Often, the churches tend to serve members of a particular group. That's the demographic reality where I live - I met a Duggar-style family ONCE, and that was in a rural area 2 hours away.

[RosyDaisy]

I consider non-denominational to mean not having a common central leadership that and is independent.

[JenniferJuniper]

I consider myself Catholic fundie-lite.

No movies other than G in my home. My kids are young, so right now I steer them towards books with a message such as The 3 Trees, Treasury of Virtues, and The Toddlers Bible. We have religious art in our home and all of us have crosses in our rooms. We pray before meals no matter what..... My kids go to Catholic School. We observe all of the Catholic Holidays. Conservative dress (no writing on butts, no short shorts, no shirts off for boys unless you are at the pool, no bikinis for girls)

We live near one of the Catholic "cults" and are certainly not that strict.

But, religion is a big part of our lives.

I wouldn't consider you to be fundie anything based on this description alone. You sound like most of the Catholic families I knew growing up, and there is nothing extreme about your dress code or only allowing G movies for young kids. I'm an atheist and I've always followed the same sort of movie/clothing guidelines with my kids.

[Guest Anonymous]

Quick reply in general....

It is okay to waffle on hot topics. It shows you are a thinking human being and not just blindly following the herd or what is popular opinion at the time.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'waffle' or why you think the topic of gay marriage to be a subject that needs so much thought? I am a thinking human being and I don't feel a need to 'waffle' on this subject (if 'waffle' means prevaricate, or something like it).

My thought process is thus:

1 All human beings should have equal rights.

2 One of these rights is that all human beings should be entitled to enter into marriage with another consenting human being, if they wish.

3 All gay people are human beings.

4 Therefore, I can say automatically that I believe that all gay people should be entitled to marry.

WTF is there to 'waffle' about here? :?

[valsa]

Quick reply in general....

It is okay to waffle on hot topics. It shows you are a thinking human being and not just blindly following the herd or what is popular opinion at the time.

Or it shows you're a bigot who just doesn't have the balls to admit it.

[formergothardite]

Look, you want me to say that I think gays are evil or bad or sinful or something along that line. Since I'm not going to do that, I'm going to stop debating with you about this. I'm undecided about this issue. If I should change my mind, I'll let you know.

No, I don't want you to say that gays are evil bad or sinful unless you actually think that and then if that is what you believe why hide it? Unless you know that your beliefs are something to be ashamed of. That is the only reason I can think to hide it. Your gay friends, what is it about them that makes you undecided about giving automatic support for them being able to get married. No one is undecided about an issue unless they have a reason to question it, so why can't you just say "I'm undecided because of _______." It is only hard to answer that question if you are trying to hide your reasons.

[formergothardite]

Quick reply in general....

It is okay to waffle on hot topics. It shows you are a thinking human being and not just blindly following the herd or what is popular opinion at the time.

Why can't you give the reason you are waffling on gay marriage, though? What is it about gay people that makes you think, "Hmm, I'm not really sure that they should get to get married."

[GiggleOfGirls]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'waffle' or why you think the topic of gay marriage to be a subject that needs so much thought? I am a thinking human being and I don't feel a need to 'waffle' on this subject (if 'waffle' means prevaricate, or something like it).

My thought process is thus:

1 All human beings should have equal rights.

2 One of these rights is that all human beings should be entitled to enter into marriage with another consenting human being, if they wish.

3 All gay people are human beings.

4 Therefore, I can say automatically that I believe that all gay people should be entitled to marry.

WTF is there to 'waffle' about here? :?

QFT.

I have no idea what there is to "waffle" about this issue either. I mean, unless you live in a Theocracy, the government's job is not to enforce consensual morality based on any religion's beliefs or holy book(s).

[1004srs]

Or it shows you're a bigot who just doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Archie Bunker had a lot of opinions that he was firm on. He was quite the bigot...... As are neo-nazis, Opus Dei, and The Phelps clan. All are quite firm in their beliefs.

I'd rather learn about the subject - both sides - and make an educated opinion rather than following the herd. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it.

[formergothardite]

Well, what exactly is the side that says gay people shouldn't get married? What is it about gay people that makes you think that they don't deserve marriage? What do you fear about gay marriage that makes you not want to support it.

Why don't you spell out what you don't like about gay people getting married and then we can see how unbigoted you are. You keep going on about how you don't want to follow the herd and you want to look at both sides, yet you can't even say what it is about gay marriage that makes you not want to support it.

[valsa]

I'd rather learn about the subject - both sides - and make an educated opinion rather than following the herd. If that makes me a bigot in your eyes, then so be it.

What the fuck is this "following the herd" bullshit?

That's just a strawman way of trying to say your regressive opinion (which, by the way, used to be the majority opinion) is oh so enlightened and the option that believes in treating people like full human beings is just the bleating of the unthinking sheeple. Pat yourself on the back about your "enlightenment" some other time because I'm not falling for it.

P.S. By the way, I'd hardly call an opinion that someone can't even articulate their reasoning for "educated".

[ems]

I was not raised with the degree of Catholicism that I am choosing to have in my home. Not even close.

I had friends that were raised strict Catholic, Mormon and/or Protestant. I loved being around the religious structure in their homes.

I would term you as "devout" rather than fundie-lite. I don't see devoutness as indicative of fundiness, but I do tend to use "fundie-lite" in place of conservative (socially/theologically) with the absence of more legalistic behaviors/dress codes/lifestyles, etc.

[dawbs]

Or it shows you're a bigot who just doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Or it shows that you're NOT a thinking human being because you haven't dedicated more than 20 seconds to pondering big issues.

(or little issues, but it's a lot more apparent when it's the *big* stuff, stuff that is openly discussed, both sides, everywhere. STuff where 20 minutes of googling would give you the gist of what's on both sides of the arguments and 30 more minutes would get you the nuances of all the "3rd party" sides)

[sarahjames3]

I've been reading the thread on gay marriage and it brought to mind an interview several years that the media did with a candidate for governor in Texas - a little known long shot who didn't stand a ghost of a chance of being elected. When asked if he supported gay marriage he responded "Hell, yes! I absolutely believe that they should have the same damn right to be just as miserable as any of the rest of us!" Still makes me laugh! I was raised in a Fundamentalist home and am today a Christian Mom and Nana but far from Fundy. I do believe that gays should be able to marry but I am definitely in the minority in this part of the south and I respect the rights of friends, family and, well, lots of others to have views that are opposite of mine.

[treehugger]

Okay, on the whole non-denominational thingy... I consider myself a non-denominational Christian (as in, I don't affiliate with any particular denomination) because I haven't found a denomination that I think is completely Biblical. There are issues in all of them and there are some good points in some of them.

As a Christian, I support socialism (because I believe that comes closest to the teachings of Christ). I think abortion should be legal and birth control readily available. I believe gays have the right to get married - not because the Bible does or does not say so - but because as human beings they are entitled to the same rights as everyone else, and should be treated with the same dignity and respect. If I chose to not have an abortion because of personal convictions, that is okay - but it is not okay for me to force my own beliefs and opinions down other people's throats. Also, I can think of several compelling reasons why abortions are sometimes necessary - and I could not ever involve politicians in making medical and personal decisions for anyone.

*Edited for riffles - because apparently it is a terrible idea to drink and write at the same time

[formergothardite]

Back when I was little, interacial marriage was still a HUGE deal around here. Interracial couples were gawked at if they went out anywhere. An interracial couple who were missionaries were invited to my church(which offended some people to the point that they wouldn't come to that service) and once they saw the reaction at the meal that followed the service they stood up said "We can see our marriage bothers people here, would anyone like to ask questions or explain what you think is wrong with interracial marriage." The people who were open to learning and being educated talked about what they thought was the problem with interracial marriage and listened to the answers.

So that is pretty much what is happening here, except 1004srs and Fundie Lite are just sitting in silence refusing to ask any questions so that they can be educated on the pro-gay marriage side.