Tedious, Complicated, and Particular: Erika Shupe, Part 8

[imokit]

More importantly has anyone seen the beach photos.  Melanie is wearing long denim shorts (definitely shorts - they stop just above the knee) and Karen is wearing a normal one piece bathing suit with a short athletic swim skirt on the bottom.

[princessmahina]

19 minutes ago, imokit said:

More importantly has anyone seen the beach photos.  Melanie is wearing long denim shorts (definitely shorts - they stop just above the knee) and Karen is wearing a normal one piece bathing suit with a short athletic swim skirt on the bottom.

I saw those and I'm wondering- what happened to their modest bathing suits? She complained in the past about the cost and said (if I'm remembering correctly) that they used the grandparents holiday gift money to the kids to buy swimsuits. Grandparents may not have liked that, and I can see the daughters not being on board with it either. Modern swimsuits can be modest without being super expensive or weird looking.

[mango_fandango]

Yes I saw those photos! Erika's said in the past that they usually visit a private beach, but they went to a restaurant afterwards. None of those ridiculous modesty swimsuits in sight.

I'm surprised that Erika seems to be loosening. Wonder why?

[elliha]

28 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Yes I saw those photos! Erika's said in the past that they usually visit a private beach, but they went to a restaurant afterwards. None of those ridiculous modesty swimsuits in sight.

I'm surprised that Erika seems to be loosening. Wonder why?

Going to a restaurant in a swimsuit is even too much for me, I always put a dress or at least an oversized t-shirt over my often very modest bathing suit which is often paired with shorts (no I don't like to feel naked, fundie or not). 

[Coy Koi]

11 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

Lots of homeschool use this option though, in fact every one I know who is in running start home schooled until they started in the program and sent went straight to community college. That could be because I know more homeschoolers, but still, it's a very popular option for homeschoolers. None that I know took any classes st the high school, though I do know a couple who played sports with the high school.

I was a Running Start student and my school only allowed students to take one college class the first term and the rest had to be taken at the high school. I don't know how common that is though. But I know they absolutely would not budge on it, because I really tried.

[feministxtian]

38 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Yes I saw those photos! Erika's said in the past that they usually visit a private beach, but they went to a restaurant afterwards. None of those ridiculous modesty swimsuits in sight.

I'm surprised that Erika seems to be loosening. Wonder why?

I wonder if Bob is behind this...as in, he's had enough...

[JillyO]

Wow. Color me shocked! The Shupes' modesty standards have never been quite as strict as some of the other families', but Karen's swimsuit is definitely a change from the modest swimwear they were still sporting last year. Good for them!

[lauraloralara]

I hope this doesn't sound weird or creepy, but I genuinely enjoy Erika's updates on her kids, especially when they are with their extended family. Erika is so clearly weird in so many ways and does things that don't make sense to me and/or are not making life the best it could be for her kids... but it seems like she is easing up in some ways. It looks like the kids really had fun at this event on FB (a family reunion, I think). They are comparatively lucky in fundie-dom that they have relatively normal extended relatives to tether them to life outside their home and parents' belief system.

[princessmahina]

1 hour ago, lauraloralara said:

I hope this doesn't sound weird or creepy, but I genuinely enjoy Erika's updates on her kids, especially when they are with their extended family. Erika is so clearly weird in so many ways and does things that don't make sense to me and/or are not making life the best it could be for her kids... but it seems like she is easing up in some ways. It looks like the kids really had fun at this event on FB (a family reunion, I think). They are comparatively lucky in fundie-dom that they have relatively normal extended relatives to tether them to life outside their home and parents' belief system.

I enjoy them too. For me, part of it is that the other family members often look so normal. I'm glad to see that the Shupelets are blending in a little better. Hopefully this is a sign of better things to come. I'm not holding out any hope that they'll get to dress up for Halloween or read Harry Potter (or even Twilight, lame as it is), but a regular conservative family life would be a step up for them I think.

[apandaaries]

2 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

I'm surprised that Erika seems to be loosening. Wonder why?

Teenagers.  I also suspect that there is an element of mother-daughter tension (which is totally normal, especially for teenagers defining themselves and their identities) adding to the changes.  It would not surprise me at all if Bob was supporting the older girls in a quest for education, employment, and relaxed attire -- or that Erika was tired of fighting with the girls over completely normal desires.  She has to know what happened with the Jeub family and their daughters.

Part of me wonders if Bob hasn't really considered the long-term for the girls.  Families they've been modeling themselves after (Maxhells)  or admiring from afar (Duggars) have shown some piss poor outcomes lately.  Erika seems (from the blog, at least) to think that prayer will cure it all, but Bob had that lengthy period of unemployment.  And he still had all those kids to feed (I would have been freaking out daily, personally).  That kind of thing can shake up a set of beliefs. Maybe he's realized the kids need more skills to survive in the world. I still think Erika wears the pants (so to speak) in the relationship, but she's so rigid.  It's hard to see her changing her beliefs.  But I can also see her rationalizing things (okay, not entirely rationalizing, but Erika-izing her ideas) or praying for Bob to change his mind or (maybe) just giving in and focusing on the littles for now.  

Can't recall and she's done so much scrubbing, but didn't her Modesty posts mention what to do when a husband wasn't on-board with the plan for modest dressing?  She talked about more subtle ways to persuade the mate to one's side, I believe.  It makes me wonder how much Bob has supported their fundie endeavors, and if he's now changing his mind.  It's hard to imagine Erika loosening up, but she is a master at rationalizing her own actions, so maybe if Bob takes the lead and she's following, it's all okay with God...?  

Very interesting developments in the Shupe state.

[princessmahina]

25 minutes ago, amandaaries said:

Can't recall and she's done so much scrubbing, but didn't her Modesty posts mention what to do when a husband wasn't on-board with the plan for modest dressing?  She talked about more subtle ways to persuade the mate to one's side, I believe.  It makes me wonder how much Bob has supported their fundie endeavors, and if he's now changing his mind.  It's hard to imagine Erika loosening up, but she is a master at rationalizing her own actions, so maybe if Bob takes the lead and she's following, it's all okay with God...?  

Very interesting developments in the Shupe state.

Yeah, it was a lot of coercion, and almost a "do what you want" kind of attitude, but more Godly and submissive than that. I think Bob likes the idea of the fundie lifestyle, but is a little more realistic. If need be, Erika may have been able to get a job teaching or tutoring to bring in extra money and Bob could have stayed home with the littles. I know they're pretty fervently against that kind of thing, but dire situations sometimes call for dire measures.

He may also be thinking even further into the future. A lot of fundie men seem to go for dangerous/hazardous occupations like tree trimming or construction. If the husband dies, it seems like the wife is typically SOL. A degree is no guarantee of anything, of course, but it might make it easier to get a job if Karen has a cosmetology license that she keeps up to date and if Melanie is able to freelance here and there.

[Hisey]

I think it's pretty easy to have any wacky belief you want when you only have littles. They go along because they don't know any better.

Having teenagers is a different story. They challenge any and all hypocrisy. They are miserable to live with when they are unhappy. They have a ton of energy to campaign for things they want. They are loud. Even the best teens lie and sneak, especially if they decide a parent is being unfair. If you try to do things outside the mainstream, teenagers are aware enough of the world to know they are different from everyone else (and different is always wrong to teens). No Halloween? A five-year old is barely aware this is different. A 15-year old knows what the neighborhood teens are doing and wants to do the same.

I think Erika is experiencing much more pressure than she did when all the kids were little.

[Anonymousguest]

15 minutes ago, Hisey said:

I think it's pretty easy to have any wacky belief you want when you only have littles. They go along because they don't know any better.

Having teenagers is a different story. They challenge any and all hypocrisy. They are miserable to live with when they are unhappy. They have a ton of energy to campaign for things they want. They are loud. Even the best teens lie and sneak, especially if they decide a parent is being unfair. If you try to do things outside the mainstream, teenagers are aware enough of the world to know they are different from everyone else (and different is always wrong to teens). No Halloween? A five-year old is barely aware this is different. A 15-year old knows what the neighborhood teens are doing and wants to do the same.

I think Erika is experiencing much more pressure than she did when all the kids were little.

I totally agree! They also want to know "why".  I know for me when my oldest kids hit the teens I reevaluated all kinds of things I did and thought. Sometimes, often even, they would ask why and I wouldn't have a reason. Just because it's how we always did it, or it just seemed best. 

2 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

I was a Running Start student and my school only allowed students to take one college class the first term and the rest had to be taken at the high school. I don't know how common that is though. But I know they absolutely would not budge on it, because I really tried.

Interesting. I have heard more of the opposite, that they are required to take a certain number of classes at CC. My friends daughter has taken a lot of classes like photography and dance just to fill in her schedule. She had to be homeschool a certain number of classes to qualify for an activity she was involved in. She's not taken a single class at the high school, and just graduated in June.

[lawlifelgbt]

18 hours ago, princessmahina said:

I could see Erika going through Chapter 10 with a sharpie and redacting all the bits she thinks are "unwholesome."

Or maybe she won't look too closely and they'll both get an eye (and brain) full of interesting new concepts... 

Ah! But if you hold Sharpied-out words up to a strong light you can still read them! Or dissolve the Sharpie ink with rubbing alcohol. (No joke, that is what high-level defectors from North Korea did when reading heavily redacted foreign material).

That I am making this parallel should tell you a lot about Erika.

[usedbicycle]

1 hour ago, amandaaries said:

Part of me wonders if Bob hasn't really considered the long-term for the girls.  Families they've been modeling themselves after (Maxhells)  or admiring from afar (Duggars) have shown some piss poor outcomes lately.  Erika seems (from the blog, at least) to think that prayer will cure it all, but Bob had that lengthy period of unemployment.  And he still had all those kids to feed (I would have been freaking out daily, personally).  That kind of thing can shake up a set of beliefs. Maybe he's realized the kids need more skills to survive in the world. I still think Erika wears the pants (so to speak) in the relationship, but she's so rigid.  It's hard to see her changing her beliefs.  But I can also see her rationalizing things (okay, not entirely rationalizing, but Erika-izing her ideas) or praying for Bob to change his mind or (maybe) just giving in and focusing on the littles for now.  

I have the same feelings about Bob. He witnessed his wife being pushed to physical extremes with back-to-back pregnancies, go through depression, and live a drastically scheduled life just to keep her head above water. He had to deal with huge financial pressure, even if it wasn't his idea to go quiverfull.

I would imagine that the sacrifices they made as a couple isn't something he necessarily wants for his daughters. Oh, I'm sure he still sees them married to a godly man and raising children and attending church, but maybe with a degree and career to bring in some income if needed.

[iweartanktops]

On 6/27/2016 at 1:17 PM, mango_fandango said:

Well, in that potty training post she said "point his front bottom down" which implies little boy penis. It's one of the weirdest things she's ever written, and that's saying something.

This is truly one of the most fucking bizarre things I've heard from the fundies. It blows my mind every time I read it. 

[alexandracabot]

The pants thing plus the summer job thing plus the driving thing plus the deleted blog posts — it's getting harder and harder to deny that Erika is easing up, a lot, as Karen and Melanie become teenagers. Great! I hope they get to have bachelor's degrees and maybe even real jobs!

[lawlifelgbt]

11 minutes ago, alexandracabot said:

The pants thing plus the summer job thing plus the driving thing plus the deleted blog posts — it's getting harder and harder to deny that Erika is easing up, a lot, as Karen and Melanie become teenagers. Great! I hope they get to have bachelor's degrees and maybe even real jobs!

The way Erika does food, though, continues to bug me. I would hate that. Having had anorexia when I was younger and having been raised by a mom who shamed me and controlled my portions, I seriously get angry and sneaky if someone else tries to control my food.

(I'm actually running into this with my wife; she earns a lot of the money and decides what we should buy and cook. Recently she has decided to kick her losing weight into high gear to be in good shape for trying to get pregnant in the next year or two. But then we don't really have enough snacks or other foods around for me that I can make easily or take to work, and I have to wait and drink water and maybe not eat when I want. But like with Erika, my wife doesn't always consider activity levels or exercise. I walk about 11,000 steps a day doing a public transit commute and walking over lunch, and I work out an hour a day 6 days a week. She walks maybe 6,000 a day due to an ongoing ankle injury and works out 3x/week for 45 minutes each. Also, we don't have a lot of money for eating out so I can't buy my lunches and get more that way.

 

But, unlike the Shupe kids, I can know that my argument may be listened to and things may change if I discuss this, and if not, I can always at least spend $2-3 dollars on chips or nuts or something if I am starving. It's contentious enough to adapt to a partner dieting and changing the household food, but I can't imagine making kids follow such a way for years, with no snack money and no ability to negotiate.

[16strong]

I don't know what the catalyst for all this change was, but it's clear that Erika has loosened up, and that everyone looks happier. Especially Karen. She is smiling so much more, as opposed to most of the pictures being an angry scowl or a sarcastic "See, look! I'm smiling. Happy now, mom?" expression. Even Erika sounds and looks happier.

[defraudingjezebel]

I too enjoy the updates about the kids, esp. Karen and Melanie. They both seem bright, talented, and passionate. I hope they're able to spread their wings a bit! 

I also noticed Karen and Melanie had different hair styles in the family reunion pics. They've had their hair cut into trendier, somewhat shorter styles. We all know that Erika isn't afraid of short hair *rye smile* but it seems like she's given them a bit of autonomy about their hair cut preferences. 

One thing I do have to say is that Erika's kids, especially the girls, are always dressed nicely. Maybe Erika can take a pointer or two from the older girls. They're making Erika look dowdy in comparison!

[Coy Koi]

I just remembered something about Running Start. In order to participate you have to take a placement test and place in college level classes. You can't take any remedial courses. I wouldn't bet the farm that recipients of Erika's edukashun would qualify.

[AuLait]

6 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

I was a Running Start student and my school only allowed students to take one college class the first term and the rest had to be taken at the high school. I don't know how common that is though. But I know they absolutely would not budge on it, because I really tried.

I was a Running Start homeschooled student. I was able to take 3 classes all the terms I attended. This was 20 (ugh) years ago. I had completed my homeschool high school work and tested in high enough to not need the remedial classes. Maybe that's why? Maybe it varies by school district? 

[16strong]

33 minutes ago, defraudingjezebel said:

I too enjoy the updates about the kids, esp. Karen and Melanie. They both seem bright, talented, and passionate. I hope they're able to spread their wings a bit! 

I also noticed Karen and Melanie had different hair styles in the family reunion pics. They've had their hair cut into trendier, somewhat shorter styles. We all know that Erika isn't afraid of short hair *rye smile* but it seems like she's given them a bit of autonomy about their hair cut preferences. 

One thing I do have to say is that Erika's kids, especially the girls, are always dressed nicely. Maybe Erika can take a pointer or two from the older girls. They're making Erika look dowdy in comparison!

They do dress well. I really want to know where Karen's champagne sweater in the family reunion pics is from.

[mango_fandango]

1 hour ago, defraudingjezebel said:

I too enjoy the updates about the kids, esp. Karen and Melanie. They both seem bright, talented, and passionate. I hope they're able to spread their wings a bit! 

I also noticed Karen and Melanie had different hair styles in the family reunion pics. They've had their hair cut into trendier, somewhat shorter styles. We all know that Erika isn't afraid of short hair *rye smile* but it seems like she's given them a bit of autonomy about their hair cut preferences. 

One thing I do have to say is that Erika's kids, especially the girls, are always dressed nicely. Maybe Erika can take a pointer or two from the older girls. They're making Erika look dowdy in comparison!

I think they've had those hairdos for a while, but they tie their hair up a lot so you wouldn't notice. Minor point. They do look really pretty. Karen will be eligible to court soon. Call me weird- it likely won't happen for a while- but I'm kind of interested to see how that'll go, especially as Melanie will follow soon after. 

What I also noticed- starting with the tenpin bowling album posted a few months ago, is that Anna Marie, Lacey and Lilly all have Karen-style bangs now. 

[fundiesarefascinating]

IIRC Karen will be turning 18 in September. I wouldn't be surprised if Erika is loosening the rules or trying to compromise because she knows that Karen might bolt as soon is she is legally allowed too. Melanie isn't too far behind Karen. So she needs to keep those girls happy or at the very least not in flight risk mode if she wants them to continue raising her other children. 

But I agree. It is so nice to see the girls smiling and wearing clothing that seems to be modest, comfortable, and age appropriate.