Can someone explain gerrymandering and voter blocking in US politics?

[sawasdee]

I keep reading references to gerrymandering to maintain artificially Republican controlled Congress seats in largely Democrat areas, and also of people being prevented from voting in, again, Democrat majority areas. Is this true?

If so, how is the gerrymandering engineered? Is there any neutral oversight? is there mandatory redrawing with population increases/decreases?

What legal measures can prevent people voting? The only one I know of is that disenfranchising felons, and I know that varies from state to state. I can understand the variation in state elections, but surely for federal elections the qualifications for the franchise should be the same throughout the federation - i.e. the US? I'm very confused, and not being a US citizen find it hard to believe that the corruption that is being alleged here is actually widespread.

Can some of you constitutional/political scholars please enlighten me?

[aquitana]

As for voting: For one thing you have to register to vote beforehand, so that may stop some people.  Also, some places are starting to require official IDs, which may pose a problem for people without drivers licenses, mostly poor people.

It's not just Republicans, Democrats have also been responsible for gerrymandering to keep their own candidates in power, and keep minority neighborhoods from having representation. The Supreme Court ruled on gerrymandering a few years ago, but I don't remember what they decided.

[19 cats and counting]

Political staffer here.

Gerrymandering is when districts are intentionally drawn to pack as many of the other party in as possible.  In the early 1800s, there was a politician named Eldridge Gerry who drew a district the shape of a salamander to help him, hence the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering_in_the_United_States

In the last 30 years, people have been naturally separating (there's a book called "The Big Sort" that discusses this at length) and moving to be around like-minded people.  It is highly unlikely that New York City will send a tea party Republican to congress (the bluest district in the country is in the Bronx). (Reddest district is in north Texas IIRC).

Many states have anti gerrymandering laws (such as to attempt to use existing town/county boundaries as much as possible) but in most cases, computers have only made the problem worse.  

Some examples of extremely gerrymandered districts.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/05/15/americas-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts/

 

[PokaDot]

This will probably help (and it has pictures).

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/03/01/this-is-the-best-explanation-of-gerrymandering-you-will-ever-see/

[SpoonfulOSugar]

1 hour ago, sawasdee said:

I keep reading references to gerrymandering to maintain artificially Republican controlled Congress seats in largely Democrat areas, and also of people being prevented from voting in, again, Democrat majority areas. Is this true?

If so, how is the gerrymandering engineered? Is there any neutral oversight? is there mandatory redrawing with population increases/decreases?

What legal measures can prevent people voting? The only one I know of is that disenfranchising felons, and I know that varies from state to state. I can understand the variation in state elections, but surely for federal elections the qualifications for the franchise should be the same throughout the federation - i.e. the US? I'm very confused, and not being a US citizen find it hard to believe that the corruption that is being alleged here is actually widespread.

Can some of you constitutional/political scholars please enlighten me?

Here's a fairly brief explanation of redistricting, which is the concept underlying gerrymandering:

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/7-things-know-about-redistricting

As far as preventing people from voting, the two things that first come to my mind are requiring identification (which is a recent big issue in Alabama:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/alabama-dmv-closures-voting-rights/) and issues surrounding residency of college students.  

Here's a piece describing some of the restrictions:  http://prospect.org/article/22-states-wave-new-voting-restrictions-threatens-shift-outcomes-tight-races

I'm also aware of things such as changing where and how a potential voter can register, changes in absentee voting, changes in voting locations.

And yes, these policies are implemented at the state or local level, which means they vary by jurisdiction and are NOT uniform AT ALL across a federal election.

[PokaDot]

3 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

As far as preventing people from voting, the two things that first come to my mind are requiring identification (which is a recent big issue in Alabama:  http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/alabama-dmv-closures-voting-rights/) and issues surrounding residency of college students.  

 

Sorta off topic: I was very pro needing an ID to vote until someone (on Facebook of all palces) pointed out that it is a poll-tax by a different name (since we have to pay to get an ID). Since poll taxes are unconstitutional I changed my opinion. Proof that sometimes discussions on the internet can change someone's opinion sometimes ;).

 

[Whoosh]

OK - so if people are easily offended they might want to skip this one.  This is Sarah Silverman (one of my favorites) giving her take on Voter ID laws.  Obviously, not the most technical source and she is biased (but she is knowledgable on the topic).

 

 

[sawasdee]

@Whoosh

Informative on how voting is being made more difficult - and fucking funny!

[RosyDaisy]

Here in Tiny Town, Alabama we are helping people register to vote (by legal means such as a ride to DMV and paying the fee for state id). It doesn't matter what their political views are. On, and fuck you Gov. Bentley!

[19 cats and counting]

3 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Here in Tiny Town, Alabama we are helping people register to vote. It doesn't matter what their political

When you help people register to vote (or get them registered) it is illegal to discriminate based on their political affiliation (or lack thereof).  You can target the areas you want to register people (ie the tea party will most likely not look for new voters at a gay pride parade) but once you have their form it has to be turned in.

[Whoosh]

Also, just to add to what is said in the Silverman video, here is another take on the topic.  I am including this because it specifically addresses that some segments of the population might have a very difficult time trying to get an acceptable ID for voting purposes.  Think Faith Pennington or some of the Naugler kids.  These types of issues are more likely to impact certain segments of the elderly, low income populations, and minorities - all groups that historically tend to be more likely to support Democrats.  

http://rhrealitycheck.org/ablc/2014/10/16/well-actually-pretty-hard-people-get-photo-id-just-vote/

[sawasdee]

@SpoonfulOSugar and @Whoosh

Those were some scary links. They read that there is a deliberate attempt to disenfranchise those likely to vote Democrat in certain states, and almost all the restrictions seem to be aimed at minority groups.I live in a country renowned for its political corruption - but at least they openly buy votes, and don't even pay lip service to pretending to be a democracy. But what is supposed to be the world's most powerful democracy is undermining the very principles on which it is built. I actually feel sick. I started this thread expecting to be told that I had misunderstood, or the problems have been exaggerated, but I had completely underestimated the degree of manipulation. I seriously feel ill - this is the kind of thing that can produce a Trump presidency, or gut a Sanders presidency by the House closing him down. Sod the wishes of the people - the GOP/Teaparty/ALEC rules!

[livinginthelight]

@19 cats and counting: thanks for the history lesson. I'd had no idea where the word came from.

Californians voted for a bipartisan redistricting commission in 2008, specifically to eliminate gerrymandering. The committee consists of equal numbers of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. It's a great system. The Republicans initially challenged it after seeing the resulting map, but later dropped their challenge.

Re: voter fraud - in actuality, it would be very difficult for coordinated fraud (e.g., people registered in several counties, voting multiple times)  to exist on a wide enough scale to have any impact. Many people, including myself, see all the hoopla as an effort by Republicans to disenfranchise those who may be too poor for a driver's license. Those people tend to vote with the Democrats. Republicans say that these people can easily get an ID card, but with no transportation and limited funds, it's not always that easy.

[notfundy]

The effort to disenfranchise college students is real as well.

Why? Well...there is good data to suggest that in general, as a person's level of education increases post high school (especially with masters and doctoral/professional degrees) a person is more likely to identify as a Democrat or Independent vs. Republican. It does seem to me that most Republicans would rather not be bothered by data or science around such things as climate chance for example. (I'll add citations later when I'm home)

At the University of Wisconsin Madison (45,000 students) the Walker-led administration decreed that the existing UW picture ID was no longer ok. Students have to stand in line and get an special separate I'D just for voting.

Even was talk of making students travel to their permanent homes (on a Tuesday... During the semester) to vote.

And oh yeah... The picture ID issued by the VA to...you know: VETERANS is no longer valid either.

And there have been less than ten cases of voter fraud over many years here...it just is not a big enough problem to warrant the solution that Republican governors have put in place.

It stinks. We should be trying to get more voters not less.

[sawasdee]

Would it be legal to establish a charity that would go to districts with large numbers of those with no driver's licences, offer free transportation to the nearest DMV, and pay any costs involved in getting photo ID?

[19 cats and counting]

In PA, the voter ID law went after likely Republicans in one way that they didn't think of (the Amish).  Another constituency that might lack (current) photo ID is the elderly.

If a state ID card were free and didn't require you to jump through hoops to get (I have to show NJ my birth certificate every 4 years when I renew my drivers license) then I would agree more.  

Also a college student has a choice whether he/she votes at their parents address or at their school address.  (I advise college students differently depending on where the various addresses are and where the vote counts the most).  Many states do not accept a college ID (even at a state school, where the ID is state issued) as an acceptable form of ID.  A college student living in a dorm would not have that address on his/her drivers license.

[halcionne]

I'm no expert, but I have a lot of feelings about gerrymandering/redistricting, so I'll make some comments.

The US House of Representatives has 435 members, no more, no less. Their districts are divided equally by population, but every state gets at least one. 320 million people = roughly 750,000 people per district. Wyoming only has a population of 500,000 or so, but they are still entitled to a representative. (The Senate has 100 members & every state gets two, for balance.) 

Every ten years there's a census and new math is done so that the districts are still evenly matched for population. This usually results in at least a few states' districts having to be redrawn, to account for changes in the population (births, deaths, migration, etc). After the last census in 2010, Repubs and teabaggers busted their butts drawing districts that would work in their favor by cramming poor and minority voters into one or two districts and leaving the others with republican majorities. That's how we wound up with a Republican-controlled Congress, even though the country is pretty evenly split between Democrat and Republican. It's total bullshit. 

So we have to go through this bullshit every ten years, and it took Florida six years to sort out Republicans' gerrymandering shenanigans this time around. I'm exhausted and infuriated just thinking about it, which means I don't have many links, but here a a couple to start with.

https://ballotpedia.org/Redistricting_in_Florida

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/supreme-court-votes-5-2-in-favor-of-congressional-redistricting-map-drawn/2256166

I tried to find drawings of the old map and the new, court-ordered map, but everyone and their mom submitted their own fantasy maps and that cluttered up my google results. 

[RosyDaisy]

Basically all we do is offer a ride to the DMV and help people with the fee if they can't afford it. Nobody is discriminated against. They make up their own minds and fill out the forms by themselves. That's it.

[19 cats and counting]

5 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Basically all we do is offer a ride to the DMV and help people with the fee if they can't afford it. Nobody is discriminated against. They make up their own minds and fill out the forms by themselves. That's it.

In NJ, the DMV requires 6 points of ID (examples include passport, birth certificate, SS card, utility bill, state id card, school id, etc).  An unexpired NJ ID/drivers license is only something like 1 point.  Expired ones are no good.

Not everyone has that documentation and to get copies (ie a birth certificate) it costs money.

[Maggie Mae]

20 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

Would it be legal to establish a charity that would go to districts with large numbers of those with no driver's licences, offer free transportation to the nearest DMV, and pay any costs involved in getting photo ID?

In order to get a STATE ID (you don't need a driver's license to vote. Just a state ID. And not every state has a "Department of Motor Vehicles" Michigan, for example, issues IDs at the "Secretary of State Office" which is kind of the same but different.) you need an ID. You need a ton of paperwork, actually. Birth Certificate, ID, proof of residence, social security card. In order to get a social security card, or in order to get on re-issued, you need an ID. In order to even get into the Social Security office, you need current, unexpired State ID (or driver's license.). If you want to really fuck up someone's life, steal their passport, Driver's License, State ID, and social security card.  

So taking them to the office and paying the fine isn't always the issue. 

[Sundaymorning]

 

 

[sawasdee]

@Sundaymorning

Thank you for that - it was very educational. And I then followed the link to why a sovereign is good for the UK.....where the finances involved were surprising!

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I'd never thought that one day I'd say that I very much prefer the way we do elections here, never 

Well let's try to think optimistically. The more blatantly unfair and corrupt the system is the more people will be aware and maybe willing to make an effort to try to change things. Maybe. 

[Sundaymorning]

I really like the way Switzerland's National Council is elected. Most cantons have several seats, and you basically can vote both for a party and the individual people you want to get elected. Your vosting list can also include a mix of members of different political parties.

But I'm not so sure this would work in the US, since you'd either have to make Congress much bigger, or merge several voting districts.

[Maggie Mae]

32 minutes ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I'd never thought that one day I'd say that I very much prefer the way we do elections here, never 

Well let's try to think optimistically. The more blatantly unfair and corrupt the system is the more people will be aware and maybe willing to make an effort to try to change things. Maybe. 

Not enough people care enough to do anything. Apathy is rampant. 

There has been widespread reporting in my area of the blatant corruption. People were turned away from casting votes one year, boxes of ballots went missing, redistricting, etc. The conservative older crowd told everyone to suck it up and stop whining, the younger people who were upset eventually just shut up about it because there was nothing to be done after it was certified. 

Politicians receive kickbacks. 

Cash for Kids happened and people on reddit a few weeks ago were all TIL about it like it wasn't a huge story when it happened a few years ago. 

We've been completely distracted with entertainment and pop culture and celebrities. Very few people give any sort of shits.