Women under 35 are supporting Sanders over Clinton!

[ADoyle90815]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

I'm sure that's true. The problem isn't that women never internalize sexism or make choices for bad reasons - the problem is the generalization. The problem is that those generalizations so often put women down and infantilize us, or treat the lowest common denominator as the norm.

Some women liked a silly meme, and are voting for Sanders. I have a political science degree, and am voting for Sanders. Women aren't all the same, and shouldn't be treated as if we are... and Steinem of all people should really know better.

I agree, Steinem should know better than to assume that all women are the same. All I know is that I'm not voting for Hillary because in my opinion, she's the wrong woman for the job. As Martin O'Malley dropped out, at this point, I might vote for Bernie in the primary, but in the end, I'll vote for the Democratic nominee because the Republicans would be far worse for the US than anyone.

[EmmieJ]

On 2/7/2016 at 9:47 AM, Mercer said:

I do have a major issue with Steinem telling me that my carefully considered and well-researched political opinions aren't real because I'm a woman, therefore it must somehow be about "boys." Not trusting women to know our own minds and make our own decisions is about as un-feminist as you can get.

I was very disappointed to read Steinem's comments in this regard - disappointed and surprised!  I guess she's tried to walk back her statement by saying it was misinterpreted, but I hate that sort of "I really didn't say anything offensive, you just misinterpreted what I said" response.

I have never voted for any candidate because I thought it would impress anyone else, male or female.  I registered as Republican when I turned 18 (and I don't remember who I might have voted for at that time.  Maybe I have blocked out voting for George Bush Sr!).  I switched to Democrat when Bill Clinton was running for his first term, because I wanted to vote for him.  I did vote for him, twice.  It was not done to impress boys or men.  I would be thrilled to vote for the first female President, but I'm hanging on for Elizabeth Warren or someone equally as good.  I admire many of the accomplishments of Hilary Clinton, but she doesn't share most of my political philosophy.  Bernie Sanders is much more aligned with me in that regard and I hope I get the chance to cast my vote for him for President.

[LeopardLady]

17 hours ago, louisa05 said:

My nephew shared a meme this weekend that said we have to vote for Bernie because you always need "an old white guy" to fight evil (comparing him to Obiwan Kenobi, Gandalf and Dumbledore). It literally uses the words "an old white guy". The implications of sexism and racism in this meme went right by nephew even when it was pointed out to him. And he got it from a young woman. And last time I looked, four young women he knows clicked "like" and two of them shared it. You may have carefully considered your choice and researched it. But there are young women out there who somehow believe that we need white men in charge because they are white and male. That is not the first sexist Bernie meme I have seen that has been shared and liked by young women. 

I'm not sure women liking that meme says that these women are voting for him because he's a white male. I would find that meme funny because it shows that Bernie Sanders falls into the wise old mentor archetype. As a writer I enjoy archetypes and story tropes so would probably like it if I saw it. I am not voting for Bernie Sanders because he is a white male. I am voting for him because I finally feel like I can vote for something instead of just against the Republican nut jobs. I do see how the meme can be construed as sexist and racist, but that doesn't mean that the women who like it are doing it for sexist or racist reasons. 

[louisa05]

5 hours ago, LeopardLady said:

I'm not sure women liking that meme says that these women are voting for him because he's a white male. I would find that meme funny because it shows that Bernie Sanders falls into the wise old mentor archetype. As a writer I enjoy archetypes and story tropes so would probably like it if I saw it. I am not voting for Bernie Sanders because he is a white male. I am voting for him because I finally feel like I can vote for something instead of just against the Republican nut jobs. I do see how the meme can be construed as sexist and racist, but that doesn't mean that the women who like it are doing it for sexist or racist reasons. 

Nephew explained to his dad that no one should find it sexist because "all the great leaders in history have been white men". His GF and three other females were standing there at the time and none of them even blinked according to my brother. Seriously, I think we have a problem here. And I have a feeling he is not the only one. Especially since he is the follower of followers socially. We assume that in this, like absolutely everything else he does, he is just following a crowd. 

And I know from experience in the classroom as an American government teacher that even senior girls (as in those of voting age) will sit back and go along with their male peers who express strong opinions. I had boys in my classroom who would suggest that women never should have been given the right to vote (and this was in a suburban Catholic school where about 40% of the student population had no religious affiliation) and even their most opinionated female peers would refuse to put up an argument. Now this tendency won't necessarily be a problem in primary states with a secret ballot, but in caucus states like mine where you have to declare your vote out loud. Well, if a young woman is sitting next to her boyfriend...

As for the "bernie is a wise old mentor" trope (and yes, I know the trope, I have a degree in English lit among others), frankly, you should not want that one spread around. The wise old mentors die before the job is done and Bernie's age is already an issue. Plus, as I told nephew, if he's Obiwan Kenobi, he dies before anything really happens. So that casts him as dying before the election. Shouldn't we be finding out who Luke Skywalker is and voting for him instead? 

 

 

[Pupalup]

I consider myself a feminist, but a lot of things that I've heard about Steinem kind of rub me the wrong way. Regardless of if her comments about Bernie supporters were taken out of context, she's said some not so nice things about trans women. I certainly believe she's done a lot of good though. It might be a generational difference,  because I know old school feminists and modern feminists don't always see eye to eye on everything.

[FaustianSlip]

I saw the aforementioned meme when my (female) 20-something cousin posted it. I also pointed out how absurdly sexist and racist it came across (not to mention invalid- replace the three characters pictured with Princess Leia, Galadriel and Professor McGonagall and replace Sanders with Clinton and boom, "Sometimes it takes an old, white woman to fight the forces of evil"), and got back, "Oh, I just thought it was funny." This is someone who would identify herself as a feminist and is usually good at noticing stuff that's as blatantly sexist as that meme was. For me, it encapsulated a whole host of things that I find distasteful about the Sanders campaign: the whitewashing, the Bernie bro phenomenon, the cult of personality. Thanks, but no thanks.

Meanwhile, CNN said this evening that Sanders won the male vote in New Hampshire by thirty-one percent. He won women by seven percent. That's one hell of a gap and no, I don't think it's because the men of New Hampshire are inherently more progressive and/or in love with democratic socialism than the women are.

I'm a woman under thirty-five, and I'm voting for Hillary Clinton in the primaries. I'm frankly tired of having my liberal bona fides questioned or being scolded for being "part of the establishment" or otherwise made to feel as if I should apologize for my choice when it comes up, and this has happened repeatedly and at length on Facebook. The Bernie bro phenomenon is real, and I know because I know some of them. Now, do I think all Sanders supporters are like this? No. But I also don't appreciate people trying to gaslight me and tell me I'm delusional or don't know what I've personally experienced. I'm not an idiot, I'm not delusional, and I wasn't even sure I was voting for Clinton until about two weeks ago (ultimately, it came down to Sanders' record on gun control and his absurd comments about Planned Parenthood being "the establishment" mere months after people were murdered in a Planned Parenthood clinic- I don't trust him on women's issues as much as I trust Clinton)- these were responses I was receiving not even for saying outright that I was voting for Clinton, but just for expressing doubts about Sanders or asking questions about his platform.

If my encounters with the Sanders base can alienate me, a dyed-in-the-wool liberal who has known about the guy literally since junior high and agrees with the vast majority of his positions, then there is a real liability there down the road if he wins the nomination and is trying to court swing voters in less liberal states. Personally, I think his supporters ignore it at their peril, but I'm just part of "the establishment," obviously, so it's not like I know anything.

[Mama Mia]

I haven't been on much because my health has been bad , but I had to see what FJ had to say about the election 

I'm an older woman ( early fifties ) . I'm a life- long Democrat, from a family of Democrats, who was raised in a VERY politically active family and I've actively campaigned for several candidates and causes over my life. I am wholeheartedly voting for Bernie Sander's.  

Im really, really sick and tired of the patronizing, manipulative, false portrayal of Sander's supporters in the media. . Are there some jerks who say stupid, offensive things among his supporters?  Why yes. Welcome to the Internet. Are some Facebook memes taken seriously when they are meant to simply be humorous? Again, hello Internet. What Gloria Steinem said was absolutely appalling. What Madeline Albright said was also awful. Clinton isn't owed a vote because she's a woman. By that rationale everyone should have voted for McCain in the hopes Palin would have made the jump up.  I understand some people's experiences are different, but in my experience, as a woman, daughter, mother of daughters and having worked with many, many women -- the women in my world don't base their voting preference on what a boy likes. 

The portrayal of Sander's supporters as just a bunch of very young, very spoiled young men - and apparently the girls who trail after them - who all just want a free ride- is ridiculous. I'm voting for Sander's because I think his proposed policies will be of greater benefit to ALL Americans.  A single payer health care system benefits people from every income level. The very poor who would get care, and  better care,  because their health insurance card looks like everybody else's. The working class who could actually afford to see the doctor without worrying if they have money for the co-pay. The middle class could afford to live like they were middle class if they weren't paying so much for health care. Employers who could hire more workers if they weren't paying ridiculous amounts in employee health benefits.  Even big corporations because the overall economy would benefit from all of the above. And, yes, I am well aware this means an increase in taxes. A small, equitable, increase that would mean a greatly improved quality of life.  The same arguments can  be made regarding his proposed policies on access to college for all. 

Do I think he'll achieve all of his goals - of course not. But I sure would rather back his ideas than the " experience" of a yes vote on Iraq, NAFTA, mass incarceration and the welfare " reform" that just threw poor people under the bus.

 

[GiggleOfGirls]

I don't understand why it's so difficult for many of both sides' supporters to realize that different people have different priorities and values and will make different decisions depending on what their priorities and values are. The mudslinging on both sides - calling into question the other side's intelligence, feminism, liberalism, etc - is odd to me. 

I fully admit my strong bias towards Bernie because I agree with him about many more issues, however, I've only seen the mudslinging come from high-profile supporters on one side. Also, while Bernie has outright asked that his supporters be nice, unless I've missed it, Hillary has not admonished her supporters about the same issue. 

[Curious]

On 2/7/2016 at 5:55 PM, Maggie Mae said:

If you are going to keep merging anything I post, may I request that you rename this thread? 

Also, I'm not going to create content for QOP anymore. Because obviously no one wants new threads in a sub forum that has 23 topics. It's just too much, huh? 

As near as I can tell looking at the moderation history of this thread, you posted only a link in the second post.  That link appears to have a title that is discussing the topic of the first thread, so I imagine it was merged for that reason.

As you are aware, threads with similar content are merged routinely so the same basic discussion isn't being split between a bunch of different threads.  The number of topics in a given forum has nothing to do with it.

If you have different things to say on a topic that appears similar, I would suggest adding some discussion and not just dropping a link because the helpmeets go on what they see and in this case, it appeared to be the same topic.   I scrolled through this thread and had a tough time determining where the merge was, so had to look at the moderation history to figure it out.   If you hadn't reported the post, I wouldn't have been able to tell at all, most likely.

[Maggie Mae]

27 minutes ago, Curious said:

As near as I can tell looking at the moderation history of this thread, you posted only a link in the second post.  That link appears to have a title that is discussing the topic of the first thread, so I imagine it was merged for that reason.

As you are aware, threads with similar content are merged routinely so the same basic discussion isn't being split between a bunch of different threads.  The number of topics in a given forum has nothing to do with it.

If you have different things to say on a topic that appears similar, I would suggest adding some discussion and not just dropping a link because the helpmeets go on what they see and in this case, it appeared to be the same topic.   I scrolled through this thread and had a tough time determining where the merge was, so had to look at the moderation history to figure it out.   If you hadn't reported the post, I wouldn't have been able to tell at all, most likely.

There was a second post, with a link and discussion. About Hillary. The first link (which, yes, was only a link, my apologies) generated more discussion and has effectively changed the topic of this post. 

[kjmackin]

I happen to be under 35 and with the two democratic candidates I don't really have much oppion between the two. I think both would make for a good president. I do like what Bernie stand for more then Hillary but I hesitate if he would be able to get the things he want done. While with Hillary I think she could actually achieve more. I just know come November my vote will be for a democratic. If we fail to place one in the White House I feel that as a nation we will take about a 100 steps backwards. Most republicans in congress are starting to test the waters with what as a voting party they can push through.  I believe that there isn't much congressional seats up for grasp this election cycle so if they get a GOP in the White House imagine all the bills that would pass that would over the pass 8 years.

Now I live in the what probably the strongest Republican state so I know my democratic vote inNovember won't have any significant which is part of the reason why I changed my part affliction recently. When I vote on Super Tuesday I have to make what I consider to be a hard choice that is considering what the most stragtic play would be. Currently Cruz, Trump, and Rubio are leading in the polls and right now I don't know where to make my play.

[onlyme]

On 2/8/2016 at 9:31 AM, Mercer said:

I'm sure that's true. The problem isn't that women never internalize sexism or make choices for bad reasons - the problem is the generalization. The problem is that those generalizations so often put women down and infantilize us, or treat the lowest common denominator as the norm.

Some women liked a silly meme, and are voting for Sanders. I have a political science degree, and am voting for Sanders. Women aren't all the same, and shouldn't be treated as if we are... and Steinem of all people should really know better.

The context of the meme was that a photo of Bernie was put alongside wizards like Dumbledore, Gandalf, etc. I thought it was funny. That doesn't mean that I make my political decisions based on a guy being an old white guy. 

[Maggie Mae]

http://time.com/4216845/jane-sanders-madeline-albright-bernie/

 

I love the sound of "First Lady, Dr Sanders said...." 

And she looks so normal. Like she could be my friend's mom or something. 

[zebra #13]

Interesting: I'm 75, and solidly in that cohort which is supposed to be Clinton supporters.  Nor do I know a single woman planning to vote for Clinton.  Nor man, for that matter.  But that's primaries, come the general, *any* dem is gonna beat any rePublican.

Clinton's done her time, worked her ropes, and if she gets it -- fine.  If not: fine, too. 

Personally, da Bern's just a lot closer to what I've believed all my life.   Nor am I gonna fault his position on guns: he represents a rural, hunting state.  He's not for assault rifles, folks.

If Albright's right, she'd be good with a vote for Carly?  Not me.

[CrazyCatLady]

Love Bernie!

[GiggleOfGirls]

22 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

http://time.com/4216845/jane-sanders-madeline-albright-bernie/

 

I love the sound of "First Lady, Dr Sanders said...." 

And she looks so normal. Like she could be my friend's mom or something. 

She seems so nice. I got to see her at a Bernie rally a while back and she did strike me as being very normal. A good quality for a first lady, in my opinion.

[onlyme]

I love her too! She strikes me as someone you could laugh over coffee with. 

[Maggie Mae]

17 hours ago, zebra #13 said:

Personally, da Bern's just a lot closer to what I've believed all my life.   Nor am I gonna fault his position on guns: he represents a rural, hunting state.  He's not for assault rifles, folks.

This is me, too. He represents a rural hunting state. I live in a rural, hunting state. There are other rural, hunting states. Which is why a "gun round-up" isn't something that will work in the US. If you want to ban guns in Chicago, fine. If you want to ban them from Long Island or Miami, have at it. But please stop pretending that everyone in the US lives in nice, established neighborhoods in metropolises. Bernie's moderate stance on gun control helps me believe that he actually represents all of the residents of his state. 

 

[formergothardite]

I'm over 35 and for Bernie. I agree that his wife seems like just a nice person who you could have a normal conversation with. She doesn't look like the typical politicians wife. 

[feministxtian]

I've been following Bernie for years. As far as personality...he's got a real pugnacious, Brooklyn, "don't fuck with me" thing going. I like it...but then again...I have the same thing going on, only with a southern accent. I'm 51, Latina, and pretty much every Dem I know is a "Bernie Backer". 

I am caucusing for Bernie in North Las Vegas this Saturday...

 

[meda]

On ‎2‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 1:43 AM, feministxtian said:

I've been following Bernie for years. As far as personality...he's got a real pugnacious, Brooklyn, "don't fuck with me" thing going. I like it...but then again...I have the same thing going on, only with a southern accent. I'm 51, Latina, and pretty much every Dem I know is a "Bernie Backer". 

I am caucusing for Bernie in North Las Vegas this Saturday...

 

I'm for Bernie, but some of the "Bernie Bro's" on his staff had better re-think trying to target respected female  DREAMer  activists who don't endorse him, or pretending to be union staffers so they can get access to the back of the house to campaign for Bernie. That's a bullshit tactic that could have a consequence of casino's denying access to actual union  staff. Which means easily exploited  low wage workers who may have limited English will have a much harder time getting help from their union. Not cool.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/adriancarrasquillo/sanders-campaign-missteps-with-influential-nevada-union-and#.elZpZkZoLR

 

[Kelsey]

I will be voting for Bernie in the primary. I will vote for either Bernie or Clinton in the general election.

I am in the listed demographic. As far as I know, my husband is voting the same way. Apparently, he's one of Bernie's bros though

We are in Florida so I am hoping our votes will help our state be blue come November- lots of electoral votes hinge on us.

[clueliss]

Bernie made an appearance yesterday in Lawrence, KS.  Spoke at the fairgrounds.  But first he apparently took a stroll (secret service and the national media in tow) through Downtown Lawrence and got a hair cut.  

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2016/mar/03/bernie-sanders-strolls-through-downtown-lawrence-f/

I might love him for this.  

[clueliss]

and there's video of the haircut
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/bernie-sanders-haircut-lawrence-ks-37383923

[Alicja]

This is me, too. He represents a rural hunting state. I live in a rural, hunting state. There are other rural, hunting states. Which is why a "gun round-up" isn't something that will work in the US. If you want to ban guns in Chicago, fine. If you want to ban them from Long Island or Miami, have at it. But please stop pretending that everyone in the US lives in nice, established neighborhoods in metropolises. Bernie's moderate stance on gun control helps me believe that he actually represents all of the residents of his state. 

 

THANK you!!!!