A breed, a part - Dominionist Baby Boomers

[MamaJunebug]

N. Somnia and I were talking and the subject arose of outbreeding the enemy.

 

One of us got to thinking about this.

 

The Dominionist baby boomers must be fretful about the pace of breeding of their Gen-X/Y children.

 

Consider:

 

The Servens, married in 1979, have children aged 31, 29, 27, 25, 23, 18ish, 15ish, 11 and 10, and one grandchild.

 

The Maxwells, married some time around 1975, have children aged 34ish, 32ish, 30, and then five between ages 15-ish and 21-ish, and they have two grandchildren.

 

The McDonalds, with 10 children in their late 20s IIRC down through the pre-teens, have three (?) grandchildren also IIRC and AFAIK only one of those kids' parents are into the lifestyle enough to show themselves off with a blog (Mr. & Mrs. Ben Hector).

 

The Browns, ironically the infertile couple of the bunch that comes to mind, have four children, five grandchildren and one on the way.

 

The M. Thomases, with 5 or 6 children, three of them in their mid- or late-20s and two late-teen boys, have three grandchildren.

 

The Zeses (Missouri-area doms and VF board member, not bloggers) have three daughters in their 20s, no marriages, no grandchildren.

 

The Reins (Ahthelifers) have two daughters in their early 30s, no marriages, no grandchildren.

 

I don't follow the Mortons and Smiths but surely somebody can provide the data.

 

So the Browns seem to be leading the pack that I can think of, and they only raised four of their own. They also are in the habit of marrying their kids off PDQ.

 

Thus my hypothesis: The Boomer Dominionists' children don't seem to be practicing what their folks preached & practiced.

 

Part of this may be due to some of the parents' habit of keeping the girl women children tidily at home to provide household support.

 

Part of it may be due to some of the parents' apparent inclination to end the children's formal education wtih homeschool graduation, thus leaving the boys without formal post-secondary education that increases the likelihood of their ability to support a family.

 

Questions arise faster than answers. Did the Boomer parents - most of whom either have or appear to have formal, post-secondary educations - plan to let their sons 'drop out' after Grade 12, as it were?

 

Did they/do they not pay attention to the facts of female fecundity WRT aging?

 

Did they have a plan? What was it?

 

Understand, please: This development doesn't bother me too very much. The fewer folks to take Dominionism to the streets and to DC, the better!

 

On a slightly related note, my mind drifted to other Boomers with large families who also have numerous grandchildren. The demi-celebrity who came to mind was none other than a cheerful, hard-working Polish-Canadian Roman Catholic: Alex Debogorski, one of the Ice Road Truckers. IIRC, he and Mrs. D have 11 children and 14 grandchildren. Alex doesn't wanna take over the world. He prays when he's in trouble (even the Our Father!), helps out others on the road, tries not to deck Hugh The Mouth (idiot!) and deals with the sad facts of getting srsly older, out there on the tundra.

 

OK, I think I'm ready to try some shuteye, again.

 

No, wait: It just occurred to me that there probably are tens of thousands of Boomer Dom'ts with huge grandchildren populations -- but they don't blog.

 

Might as well make some coffee.

[apple1]

... The demi-celebrity who came to mind was none other than a cheerful, hard-working Polish-Canadian Roman Catholic: Alex Debogorski, one of the Ice Road Truckers. IIRC, he and Mrs. D have 11 children and 14 grandchildren. Alex doesn't wanna take over the world. He prays when he's in trouble (even the Our Father!), helps out others on the road, tries not to deck Hugh The Mouth (idiot!) and deals with the sad facts of getting srsly older, out there on the tundra...

Slightly OT- (My husband watches Ice Road Truckers regularly). I agree with your summary of Alex. (I just wish he was able to use some of that ice road trucking money on a dentist...)

And I can't stand Hugh the idiot.

[liltwinstar]

Personally, I think it just goes to show (and reinforce) that you can't control your kid's lives. 200 year plans don't work - you can't force people to have children if they can't or don't want to. Plus, even if your kids have eleventy billion grandchildren, you can't force those grandchildren to believe/act the same way you do.

My parents' generation was really the first wave of homeschooling parents, and they were *promised* that if they followed the "system" their kids would turn out perfectly. The people promising that, like Mary Pride, Jonathan Lindvall, and even Doug Philips (although in my opinion, he's a latecomer to the scene), did not have the experience of having grown children - their children were still young. Yet, they promised that the children of homeschoolers - children like me - would never turn away from god/religion, would never "rebel", that we would be the "chosen generation" that would change the world.

Clearly, the "glittering" promise has not been fulfilled. Most of the people I knew from church who were homeschooled have gone on to live very ordinary lives - no "movers and shakers" here! Plus, I don't know of anyone that has more than 3 kids...many of the people I knew are now on their 2nd marriages, others didn't marry until their late 20s, many have struggled to find jobs just like anyone else, etc etc. Many of the mothers in the movement have had to go back to work (either because of death/divorce, or because they go to the point where they couldn't pay their bills on one income), there have been divorces, etc.

Basically, life is messy, and any bright-eyed bushy-tailed quack who promises otherwise is full of shit.

[Bookworm]

My parents' generation was really the first wave of homeschooling parents, and they were *promised* that if they followed the "system" their kids would turn out perfectly. The people promising that, like Mary Pride, Jonathan Lindvall, and even Doug Philips (although in my opinion, he's a latecomer to the scene), did not have the experience of having grown children - their children were still young. Yet, they promised that the children of homeschoolers - children like me - would never turn away from god/religion, would never "rebel", that we would be the "chosen generation" that would change the world.

Clearly, the "glittering" promise has not been fulfilled. Most of the people I knew from church who were homeschooled have gone on to live very ordinary lives - no "movers and shakers" here!

Yeah, and JL's daughter that he said would not be taught to drive and they would let her husband decide if she should get to drive, the one who could not go anywhere without an escort, etc. etc., is still unmarried and is now in college. I really feel for her and hope that she can get out of that mess and find a good guy. The arrogance of JL to tell people all those hardline extreme things about college is evil, etc., when his children were so young astounds me. I'm just glad they seem to have loosened up.

[Avalondaughter]

To reiterate what we say a lot on these boards, I think much of it has to do with parents' control as it has to do with children's rebellion. Botkin Sr. needs his daughters at home to be the (relatively) pretty faces of VF. Mama Duggar needs Jana and Jill to help take care of the younger kids. They are more mother to some of those younger kids than Michelle is herself. I don't follow the Maxwells as closely, but it seems Sarah has been restrained. The selfish need to have daughters at home seems to outweigh the selfish need to have grandchildren.

[mirele]

They're raising their kids to emulate the never-married, no children Bill Gothard.

[Sweetpea1]

I'm really curious about the third generation out - the grandkids. What will they do with the "Vision Forum" dominist ideology? Will they emulate Grandpa/Grandmas generation or will it be one more step away?

[jenny_islander]

ISTM that in the absence of anybody insisting that family size is A Matter Of Cosmic Importance, families tend to fluctuate by generation: Mom and Dad have a big family, their kids tend to have fewer kids, and the grandkids are more likely to opt for bigger families. Each generation observes that there are drawbacks to the size of their family of origin and tends to try the other way.

[Marian the Librarian]

MJB, I always enjoy your thoughtful posts.

I will add my $0.02, FWIW: It's the fundies' aversion to all things sexual. I think the many unmarried, childless, stay-at-home adult fundie offspring you cite are the result of their parents' inability to acknowledge and accept them as sexual beings.

Never mind all the patriarchal bloviating about 200-year plans, muti-generational faithfulness, raising armies for God, and returning this country to its supposedly Christian roots by dint of sheer numbers - making a baby requires two essential ingredients, and the necessary act that combines them. Until these parents come to terms with that simple truth and stop seeing their children as extensions of themselves, we're looking at a lot of old maids (of both genders!) who will not be allowed to grow up, differentiate, leave and cleave, and contribute to the gene pool.

And for that, their parents should be ashamed of themselves.

[darkplumaged]

The "cloister them, lest they breathe the same air as non-fundies or ever have a vaguely sexual thought" approach is not working. It cannot work, and I don't know why they don't see this.

MJB, the Mortons and Smiths are winning the grandchildren race by a mile. They have eleven (born in less than five years!), and two are currently baking.

[aubrietta]

Nancy Campbell & Co certainly have a plan to outbreed the 'enemy'. I just recieved my "Above Rubies" email newsletter today, and it contained a link to this article here

aboverubies.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=948:family-planning-family-trees-gods-weapon-for-victory&catid=35&Itemid=62

to show how important it is to have many children as the family tree would be "stunted" if you don't.

[liltwinstar]

Just thinking...I bet the pressure to perform is a huge problem/reason that many kids raised in fudie/patiro don't marry and don't have oodles of kids.

I mean, it's not enough that they meet someone they like and get married. Ooooooh no. It has to be the "perfect" courtship, with the "perfect" rules and the "perfect" research papers. The wedding has to be "perfect" as well, ideally showcasing a fundie celebrity preacher (Gothard, Botkin, Phillips, etc). There has to be a gaggle of flowergirls. The bride has to make her own dress and the dresses of the attendents - or, you know, get a fundie celebrity wife to make it for her. They have to invite roughly 4,000 people - give or take a few thousand - and feed them somehow.

Then, they have to go from -0 to 1000 on the wedding night, physically speaking, and if they don't pop out a baby 9 months and one week later, people start to suspect that they're either 1. infertile 2. dumb, bumbling virgins or 3. sinners that god has "cursed" with barrenness. Plus, they can't just be Mr. and Mrs. Joe Average with an apartment and job at the bank. Oooooooh no. He has to be a lawyer or an aspiring politician. He has to have purchased a house with cash, preferable before the marriage. She has to have a home business, and dress prettily but modestly, and "keep herself up" lest her husband stray. And on and on and on.

Given all that, these couples have to be stressed out of their minds. Maybe their reproductive organs just shut down after a while, you know? Stress isn't good for conceiving babies...and having to live in that kind of fishbowl with expectations that you can't live up to and in a system that crushes the soul....it's a wonder any of them have kids at all.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

Ahh, don't forget the Bradricks, nine children (seven married). The FDM-webpage currently lists 28 grandchildren, but it is not up to date, since it lists 3 children and one baking for PBKB. So 29 that we know of and one bun in the oven for the Cohens. Plus, I am pretty sure that Katie Valenti is probably knocked up again, too!

[demgirl]

Sort of on-topic, I think I found Blair Tsantles baby shower wish list: amazingregistry.com/baby-registry/Blair-Tsantles/Registry.ashx?a=63704972#s=showRegistry

Did she have her baby yet? I know she was due on the 6th.