FJ points and laughs at IBLP basic & advanced seminar texts

[halcionne]

It took me a year to spend my Raptureversary winnings from 2014. Finally I decided it would be fitting to spend them on Gothard literature and took the plunge. I have in my possession Research in Principles of Life Basic Seminar Textbook and Research in Principles of Life: Advanced Seminar Textbook. I bought used and saved the difference, which left me with enough money to buy a used video game I've been pining for, too.

 

I got the books a few weeks ago with the hope of mocking sharing them with Free Jinger and was immediately discouraged. C/P from another thread, to save me some typing:

 

 

Quote

Oh my god. The books came last Saturday and it's so much WTF. They're each the size of small phonebooks. The index is worthless--first thing I did was look up "sexual sin" and no dice . I may have better luck with the table of contents, but it turns out my Christianese isn't as good as I thought it was, so I'm having trouble there, too. And! Both books remind me of the handouts you get to follow along with those boring, stupid PowerPoint presentations at work, but there's no speaker or, you know, power point, to follow. Just lots of ridiculous charts and graphs and bizarre page formatting.

 

I really want to share this with FJ, especially now with the Duggars maybe getting Gothardism in the limelight, but holy mackerel it will be a challenge!

 

Yeah, so, the index and table of contents aren't much use when it comes to finding information on a particular subject, but I will try to look up anything you guys are interested in. I found a testimony from someone who talked about how great it was to abstain from sex with his wife for half the month, which was a topic I am curious about--naturally I didn't mark the page--but if I can find it again I will post it.

 

My version of the basic text says copyright 1979, 1981, Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts, so it's pretty old and maybe extra crazy? We shall see! The advanced textbook says copyright 1986, sixth printing, January 1991.

 

Here is a picture of the books, with my breakfast and a beer for scale.

 

 

Next post will be the copyright warning/guilt trip inside front cover, because it made me lol.

[halcionne]

From the Basic textbook (there is no similar warning in the Advanced book):

Any living message which is copied by others soon becomes stereotyped. This, in turn, invites cynical mocking. A message which is mocked suffers the distortion of the principles which gave the original message its life; Many are then robbed of its truth.

God wants each of us to become a living translation of His Word. There is infinite variety and creativity when we apply God's principles of life to our daily experiences and then record the results in our own "life message."

It is for these reasons that no part of this textbook is to be reproduced. Reproduction of this work in any manner, in whole or in part, in English or in other languages, is prohibited without express written permission from the publisher.

:lol:

[CloakNDagger]

From the Basic textbook (there is no similar warning in the Advanced book):

:lol:

Whoops, I guess we just busted that one, but oh well! Liking this thread.

[Curious]

Translation: Regular copyright laws aren't good enough. If you distribute any of this material amongst non-belivers they might find out that we are whack-a-doos and mock us (faster than they already do when we try to convert them).

[halcionne]

I was able to find the bit that caught my eye earlier! As it turns out, there are many pages about this very subject. I noticed several Old Testament/Jewish practices that Billy advocates as well. And some verbiage on the 40/80 day rule. They save this stuff for the Advanced Seminar--I haven't looked too closely at the Basic book yet--we at Free Jinger are advanced ourselves, and are moving straight to the good stuff!

From the advanced book, page 182: [my comments in brackets]

How abstinence allows "barren" couples to have children

A young couple was informed that due to the inadequacy of the husband's seed they could not have children. They began following the abstinence principle so that they came together when his seed was the strongest. They also applied several other guidelines which were explained at the Seminar. The result was conception and the gift of a treasured child. Here is their firsthand account:

"Two years ago I heard you explain some principles on how a husband ought to treat his wife in their most intimate relationship through Six Scriptural Principles of Marriage [that's the name of this chapter, btw].

"We had been trying to have a child for some months without success.... When I heard you give the principles of the time of uncleanness, I went home and told my wife what you said, and we agreed to try it. (We had always abstained during her period, but only during the four of five days of flow.) So, we decided to wait the seven days. Nothing happened.

"Then the next year I returned to the Pastor's Seminar, and you mentioned it again. I had forgotten that the waiting period might extend seven days beyond the end of the flow. I went home and shared this with my wife. We committed thies to the Lord and waited the fourteen days. As I was in the midst of an extended fast with the Lord, we abstained of all but the fifteenth day after thy cycle began.

"My wife then became pregnant, and the Lord has blessed us with a baby girl. When we took her to the pediatrician at two days of age, he commented that she was one of the most perfect two-day-olds that he had ever seen."

-A pastor from Washington

[Fascinated]

I think the Lord blessed them just so they'd leave him the fuck alone.

Halcionne, of course I don't know you, but from reading your posts is doesn't surprise me that this is what you chose to purchase, for your own edification as well as your fellow free jingerites'. I think it says a lot about you! I eagerly await your posts and can't wait to see what other members ask you to research. As for me, you can continue with the sex/marriage 'teachings' as long as you wish. That stuff is gold!

[halcionne]

Translation: Regular copyright laws aren't good enough. If you distribute any of this material amongst non-belivers they might find out that we are whack-a-doos and mock us (faster than they already do when we try to convert them).

I feel like Billy just warned me to behave or else the christian boogeyman will get me! :cracking-up:

[formergothardite]

It was really awkward to sit next to my parents, listening and taking notes about when Bill thought they should have sex.

[vspielman]

I noticed several Old Testament/Jewish practices that Billy advocates as well. And some verbiage on the 40/80 day rule.

Those Jewish laws of Niddah always infuriated me. I know they are supposed to be for spiritual reasons, but the thought that a period, or really any kind of female issue, makes a woman unclean and/or unworthy just makes me want to scream. My husband is Jewish, fortunately he is a reformed Jew, thank goodness. He doesn't like this nonsense either. :evil:

[linnea27]

I was able to find the bit that caught my eye earlier! As it turns out, there are many pages about this very subject. I noticed several Old Testament/Jewish practices that Billy advocates as well. And some verbiage on the 40/80 day rule. They save this stuff for the Advanced Seminar--I haven't looked too closely at the Basic book yet--we at Free Jinger are advanced ourselves, and are moving straight to the good stuff!

From the advanced book, page 182: [my comments in brackets]

Wtf. When his seed is strongest? I am sure it had nothing to do with the fact that they were now timing sex with her (likely) ovulation date :eyeroll:

Besides, I thought it was THE LAWD who opened and closed the womb?

[EmmieJ]

I was able to find the bit that caught my eye earlier! As it turns out, there are many pages about this very subject. I noticed several Old Testament/Jewish practices that Billy advocates as well. And some verbiage on the 40/80 day rule. They save this stuff for the Advanced Seminar--I haven't looked too closely at the Basic book yet--we at Free Jinger are advanced ourselves, and are moving straight to the good stuff!

From the advanced book, page 182: [my comments in brackets]

Apparently they had the same pediatrician as a friend of Jerry Seinfeld's -- except he used to use the stock phrase "breath-taking."

[quiversR4hunting]

It was really awkward to sit next to my parents, listening and taking notes about when Bill thought they should have sex.

it's a little late but this is for you formergothardite:

:brain-bleach: :brain-bleach: :brain-bleach:

side note- so if the culture is all about purity, How old are the unmarried kids when they get to hear these special talks? I would think they would have the little ones in a kid session.

[alba]

I was able to find the bit that caught my eye earlier! As it turns out, there are many pages about this very subject. I noticed several Old Testament/Jewish practices that Billy advocates as well. And some verbiage on the 40/80 day rule. They save this stuff for the Advanced Seminar--I haven't looked too closely at the Basic book yet--we at Free Jinger are advanced ourselves, and are moving straight to the good stuff!

From the advanced book, page 182: [my comments in brackets]

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

How do you judge a 2-day-old baby's perfection, anyway? Is it the absence of health issues? That applies to most babies. What about a lack of baby acne? Maybe this baby has some speshul divine glow because she's her parents super speshul godly blessing.

Or, you know, no doctor said that ever.

[halcionne]

it's a little late but this is for you formergothardite:

:brain-bleach: :brain-bleach: :brain-bleach:

side note- so if the culture is all about purity, How old are the unmarried kids when they get to hear these special talks? I would think they would have the little ones in a kid session.

I know, right? WHYYYYYY would anyone think that is okay, or a good idea?

Earlier today I frightened myself by google image searching jerusalem crickets. Thanks, formergothardite, for clearing my brain of those pictures, at least. :lol:

[FundieFarmer]

Halcionne, I love you a whole lot for this.

This pastor from Washington seems sot have an ego the size of the state.

[halcionne]

Introduction from Basic [my comments in brackets again]:

HOW TO USE THIS TEXTBOOK

• This textbook is only an incomplete supplement to the 32 hours of lectures, diagrams and charts [no Oxford comma, but otherwise these books are punctuated beautifully and use good grammar, in my inexpert opinion--somebody everybody in the upper ranks has an education] which make up the Basic Seminar.
  
  
• The textbook is designed to be studied along with the namy pages of notes which are to be written during the Seminar. [Only the front side of each page is numbered and has print--the back of each page is blank except for a header that says NOTES]
  
  
• The purpose of both the Seminar and this textbook is to encourage a much deeper study and application of Scripture.
  
  
• Each time a Seminar is attended [so folks are encouraged to do the seminars over and over. This fucking pyramid scheme.], different areas of personal need usually stand out. Steps of action in these areas should be worked out first. In preparation for this, a time of personal study in the Scriptures should be engaged in. [i spoke too soon--dangling prepositions are bad, mkay? :D ] The textbook and lecture notes may become useful in suggesting areas of Scripture to study.
  
  
• This textbook is only a beginning. There are many more truths from the inexhaustible pages of Scripture which can be added. We encourage you to join us in the deeply rewarding process of doing this.

I tried to space the bullet points out for ease of reading, but FJ software insisted on single spacing. Sorry.

[halcionne]

From Basic, page 37 [wtf why is there no table of contents in this book--also :pink-shock: @ #7-9]

SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON AUTHORITY

1. HOW OLD DO I HAVE TO BE BEFORE I'M OUT FROM UNDER AUTHORITY?
   We never outgrow the need to be under authority, and, in fact, we are all commanded to be under authority at all times. "Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility; for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5
   
2. WHEN DOES THE PARENTAL "CHAIN OF RESPONSIBILITY" END?
   The parental "chain of responsibility" ends when the delegate that authority to someone else--as in marriage or the ministry. Howevere, even before this, a certain measure of independence should be earned by learning to discern and obey the wishes of parents. When ther are confident that we will do what they would do in a given situation, they will give more freedom to make decisions.
   
3. WHAT IF I'M AN ADULT AND STILL SINGLE?
   By this time, we should have earned the position of being in a "chain of counsel." If we haven't, there must be some serious deficiencies in our attitudes or understanding.
   Whatever our age, however, we are instructed in Scripture to always be responsive to our parents' counsel: "Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old." Proverbs 23:22
   
4. UNDER WHOSE AUTHORITY AM I IF MY PARENTS ARE DIVORCED?
   The parent who is legally responsible for you becomes your direct chain of responsibility. The separated parent may be a part of your chain of counsel. If the parent with whom you are living remarries, he or she automatically delegates part ofhis or her authority to your step-parent.
   
5. WHAT IF MY PARENTS DON'T CARE WHAT I DO?
   There are reasons why a parent has ceased caring what his teen-ager does. The main reason is usually that in the past the teen-ager has had a strong will and has done what he wanted to anyway. The parents then just stop competing with him.
   When a teen-ager dedicates his life to the Lord and clears his conscience with his parents and places himself under their authority, he will usually see a gradual or a dramatic change in their concern for what he does.
   
6. WHAT IF I'M SINGLE AND LIVING IN AN APARTMENT?
   First be very sure that God has led you to move away from your parents, and that they were fully in harmony with the move. When God designed the family structure, He purposed that each one in the family meet basic needs for the others--especially social needs. When a single person leaves his family apart from God's direction, he exposes himself to many unnecessar temptations to wrongly fulfill these social needs. If your parents are in full harmony with your move to another location, it is important to maintain good lines of communication with them in order to receive counsel from them.
   
7. WHAT IF I'M A WIDOW OR DIVORCED?
   Your direct line of authority would be to God. However, it would be very essential to build around your life as many godly counselors as you can, especially parents and parents-in-law. God takes special care of the widow. He is their protector: "A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in His holy habitation." (Psalm 68:5) The book of Ruth gives significant guidance to the young widow.
   If you are divorced and your former husband is not remarried, take whatever steps you can to be reunited. By so doing, you will be able to get back under his "umbrella of protection," and allow God to work through the marriage to achieve Christ's character.
   
8. WHAT IF I MARRIED THE WRONG PERSON?
   Your marriage may not have been one that God would have arranged; however, since He has established the authority of the marriage relationship, He will use whatever marriage you enter into to perfect His charcter in you. When your ways please the Lord, He will even make your enemies to be at peace with you. (Proverbs 16:7) This will happen to an even greater degree with your life partner.
   
9. WHAT IF I DON'T RESPECT THE AUTHORITY OVER ME?
   It is important that we learn how to distinguish between an authority's position under God and his human personality. We are to reverence his position, although at the same time we may be very aware of personality deficiencies.
   To say that we rejct an authority because we don't respect him would be as much in error as tearing up a speeding ticket because we didn't like the attitude of the arresting officer.

So, if you left a bad marriage, go back! Why would anyone whose "chain of authority" leads directly to God because of death or divorce want to insert a middleman? :doh: If you marriage sucks, pray moar! Also, it's probably your fault! It's also your fault if your parents have stopped caring about you! And your non-custodial parent doesn't have any authority over you! FFS how is this supposed to help solve youth conflicts?

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

[Howl]

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

Brilliant! Still laughing.

[Arete]

I think this is going to be my new most favorite thread ever and push Xgay Greg and Dede into the #2 spot.

[LovelyLuna]

I’m, so excited about this! :popcorn2: thank you halcionne for going the extra mile!

[halcionne]

Yay I'm glad there are folks interested in this. I wish the books were more easily searched. No matter--I'll just haphazardly post whatever makes me chuckle or cuss. :mouse-shock:

[princessmahina]

This might just be the highlight of my week!

(Yes, I'm weird)

Thank you!

[SoSoNosy]

My first husband would be absolutely delighted if I declared that we needed to get back together. He has financially sucked two wives dry and is working on #4 (I got out before it could happen to me). He has four children and has never paid the first cent of child support that I know of (they are all grown and have kids of their own now). I would be a new source of revenue for him. Yeah, not happening.

[apandaaries]

Those Jewish laws of Niddah always infuriated me. I know they are supposed to be for spiritual reasons, but the thought that a period, or really any kind of female issue, makes a woman unclean and/or unworthy just makes me want to scream. My husband is Jewish, fortunately he is a reformed Jew, thank goodness. He doesn't like this nonsense either. :evil:

Reading this thread is making my laugh! Thanks so much, halcionne!

This stuff about Niddah is hysterical, especially that pastor's glowing testimony. I was just reading about how religiously observant Jewish women have been having troubles conceiving due to Niddah. If a few months go by without conception, their rabbis will often give them fertility drugs (yes, the rabbi, no, not the doctor). I can't find that particular article right now, but this one discusses the difficulties some people have conceiving while observing Niddah and how many rabbis operate in a strange religious/medical fashion: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... h-1.439921 [link unbroken b/c news source]

Then I remember it was all put together by the brilliant Gothard, still unmarried at 80. That compounds the ridiculousness quite nicely.

[calimojo]

What is the Chain of Counsel?