Jump to content
IGNORED

FJ points and laughs at IBLP basic & advanced seminar texts


halcionne

Recommended Posts

From Basic, page 37 [wtf why is there no table of contents in this book--also :pink-shock: @ #7-9]

So, if you left a bad marriage, go back! Why would anyone whose "chain of authority" leads directly to God because of death or divorce want to insert a middleman? :doh: If you marriage sucks, pray moar! Also, it's probably your fault! It's also your fault if your parents have stopped caring about you! And your non-custodial parent doesn't have any authority over you! FFS how is this supposed to help solve youth conflicts?

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

The advice to the widow is nice.... But.... To me that makes me feel like death is the only way to directly be with God...

After that it gets super crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 197
  • Created
  • Last Reply

This is brilliant Halcionne! Keep it up please. I'm laughing so much. :lol:

At the same time it's kind of sad. At least we are able to make fun of it on here, but some people really believe these words are truth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading this thread is making my laugh! Thanks so much, halcionne!

This stuff about Niddah is hysterical, especially that pastor's glowing testimony. I was just reading about how religiously observant Jewish women have been having troubles conceiving due to Niddah. If a few months go by without conception, their rabbis will often give them fertility drugs (yes, the rabbi, no, not the doctor). I can't find that particular article right now, but this one discusses the difficulties some people have conceiving while observing Niddah and how many rabbis operate in a strange religious/medical fashion: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jew ... h-1.439921 [link unbroken b/c news source]

Then I remember it was all put together by the brilliant Gothard, still unmarried at 80. That compounds the ridiculousness quite nicely.

OT to the seminars/books, but I just got back from an Orthodox friends' wedding. She and her now-husband went to the rabbi and got HIS permission to go on birth control for two years so he can finish rabbinical school and she can student teach. That kinda thing just blows my mind. A rabbi, amazingly, is not a doctor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does "umbrella of protection" really mean here? If you are married you are under a physical protection like your husband takes care of you, or is it implying protection from illness or other things because of a spiritual protection?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does "umbrella of protection" really mean here? If you are married you are under a physical protection like your husband takes care of you, or is it implying protection from illness or other things because of a spiritual protection?

Gawker did a good overview of Gothardism and talked about the umbrella of protection here: http://gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamenta ... 1706969994. I read a fascinating 20+ year old article about IBLP's EXCEL program here: http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/virg ... my-6404353 that mentions girls who go to the program are temporarily transferred from under their father's umbrella to Gothard's umbrella. They take this metaphor way too seriously!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gawker did a good overview of Gothardism and talked about the umbrella of protection here: http://gawker.com/the-creepy-fundamenta ... 1706969994. I read a fascinating 20+ year old article about IBLP's EXCEL program here: http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/virg ... my-6404353 that mentions girls who go to the program are temporarily transferred from under their father's umbrella to Gothard's umbrella. They take this metaphor way too seriously!

Thanks. I knew I had read that Virgin one before. I went and looked up the women mentioned in the article. Several of them "like" Recovering Grace and "Friends of Mr. G's Victims" - they aren't still drinking the koolaid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Basic, page 37 [wtf why is there no table of contents in this book--also :pink-shock: @ #7-9]

So, if you left a bad marriage, go back! Why would anyone whose "chain of authority" leads directly to God because of death or divorce want to insert a middleman? :doh: If you marriage sucks, pray moar! Also, it's probably your fault! It's also your fault if your parents have stopped caring about you! And your non-custodial parent doesn't have any authority over you! FFS how is this supposed to help solve youth conflicts?

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

#6 perhaps Jana or Jinger can claim Jesus told them in a dream she needs her own place?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So if your husband is abusive and tried to kill you goes to prison comes out and still tries to kill you, you should get back with him for protection.

If you're miserable in your marriage, o well Suck it up and deal with it. You're not praying hard enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Basic, page 37 [wtf why is there no table of contents in this book--also :pink-shock: @ #7-9]

So, if you left a bad marriage, go back! Why would anyone whose "chain of authority" leads directly to God because of death or divorce want to insert a middleman? :doh: If you marriage sucks, pray moar! Also, it's probably your fault! It's also your fault if your parents have stopped caring about you! And your non-custodial parent doesn't have any authority over you! FFS how is this supposed to help solve youth conflicts?

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Basic, page 37 [wtf why is there no table of contents in this book--also :pink-shock: @ #7-9]

So, if you left a bad marriage, go back! Why would anyone whose "chain of authority" leads directly to God because of death or divorce want to insert a middleman? :doh: If you marriage sucks, pray moar! Also, it's probably your fault! It's also your fault if your parents have stopped caring about you! And your non-custodial parent doesn't have any authority over you! FFS how is this supposed to help solve youth conflicts?

What about the unasked, but obvious, question 10: WHAT IF I'M AN EIGHTY YEAR OLD VIRGIN? :think: Does BG live with his parent? That would put him on a level with Norman Bates. How does Bill answer number one for himself? You are commanded to be under an authority at all times, Billy boy. :naughty:

So if everyone in the family is there to meet the basic needs of others, here's what I see loosely according to Maslow's triangle:

Father: provide shelter, bask in the achievement of perceived self-actualization

Mother: provide sex (belongingness & love) to father, make more children so they can meet more basic needs

Older daughters: provide food, water, warmth, and psychological support to children

Older sons: make money to provide for pretty much everything, i.e. most basic of needs

Younger kids: exist until they move up the hierarchy

Well, that's pretty sick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great news! 'Chain of counsel' was actually included in Basic's index. :clap: There are only three instances and they are all in the same part of the book. We saw the first one already; the next ones are in a follow up section which I will relate below. This section was formatted into a chart that I can't reproduce in text, so it might read a little repetitive.

ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON AUTHORITY

IF SOMEONE ASKS...What if parents are divorced and there is a step-father in the family?

HE MAY THINK...That God was not aware of this circumstance when He allowed him to be born in that particular family?

BUT HE MUST LEARN THAT...This principle follows the legal chain of responsibility. The step father would be in the new chain of responsibility and the real father would be in the chain of counsel.

IF SOMEONE ASKS...What if I'm single but living in an apartment and supporting myself?

HE MAY THINK...The he has no responsibility to be loyal to the standards of the parent by following their wishes no matter where he may be. That there is value in making independent decisions even if they prove to be wrong.

BUT HE MUST LEARN THAT...When a teen-ager becomes obedient to the wishes of his parents he earns the position of being under chain of counsel rather that (sic) chain of responsibility. (Parents grant more freedom for decision making because they know it will be in harmony with their basic intentions.) When a son or daughter inwardly or outwardly resists the parents' wishes, this destroys the process of earning independence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"My wife then became pregnant, and the Lord has blessed us with a baby girl. When we took her to the pediatrician at two days of age, he commented that she was one of the most perfect two-day-olds that he had ever seen."

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

How do you judge a 2-day-old baby's perfection, anyway? Is it the absence of health issues? That applies to most babies. What about a lack of baby acne? Maybe this baby has some speshul divine glow because she's her parents super speshul godly blessing.

Or, you know, no doctor said that ever.

I'm a pediatrician and I can guarantee you that their pediatrician has probably said this to almost every parent. One of the benefits of my job is I get to gush over beautiful new babes and I am more than willing to pass that on to any parents (especially new parents that are still in the madly in love yet scared out of their mind phase). :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is officially my new favourite thread!!

Keep 'em coming, Halcionne!!!!!

:D :D :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"My wife then became pregnant, and the Lord has blessed us with a baby girl. When we took her to the pediatrician at two days of age, he commented that she was one of the most perfect two-day-olds that he had ever seen."

What. The. Actual. Fuck.

How do you judge a 2-day-old baby's perfection, anyway? Is it the absence of health issues? That applies to most babies. What about a lack of baby acne? Maybe this baby has some speshul divine glow because she's her parents super speshul godly blessing.

Or, you know, no doctor said that ever.

I'm a pediatrician and I can guarantee you that their pediatrician has probably said this to almost every parent. One of the benefits of my job is I get to gush over beautiful new babes and I am more than willing to pass that on to any parents (especially new parents that are still in the madly in love yet scared out of their mind phase). :)

Haha, okay, fair enough :)

Still, you'd think it would occur to the guy that the paediatrician probably says things like that to everyone, rather than taking it as evidence of divine favour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the barren story it said the couple had been trying for months and thats not enough time to be officially considered barren. Also I may be wrong but in the abstaining talk the math seems to add up to day 14 of the reproductive cycle which in most cases would be the day of ovulation. What I am getting from the story is said couple was not actually barren and waiting until optimum fertility allowed them to conceive. :angry-banghead:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm really interested in the sexual marriage topics (don't judge me) but I felt obligated to look through the basic text first. I wish I could share the whole book here--it is gold! By the way, I take back everything I said about the quality of the grammar and punctuation; I don't have much of an eye for that sort of thing, but in transcribing it I can see that there are some problems. The hyphen in teenager and stepfather annoy me, but I get that it was in regular use way back when. The artwork is also hopelessly out of touch, even for 1981 imo. My roommate may have a scanner (I'm too lazy to investigate that right now), in which case I can share some of these ridiculous graphs and drawings. Hint: everyone is white! And impossibly clean cut. :roll:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is my favorite thread of all time. I've read bits and pieces while DS eats lunch. I'm hoping he takes a nice long nap so I really jump down this rabbit hole!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Note to self: Don't read this thread with my husband. It kills the mood!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Basic, page 113: [Taken from a chart again, so it may get awkward; my comments in brackets]

DEFINING BASIC DEFINITIONS [ 8-) ]

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: LASCIVIOUSNESS Greek = Aselgeia Other words used: Pernicious, Wantonness

AMPLIFICATION: Preoccupation with bodily or sexual pleasure exhibited by excessive and unrestrained excitement of the physical senses for personal gratification.

REFERENCES:

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness..." Galations 5:19

"And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of." II Peter 2:2 [is that the whole verse? It looks like word salad to me. :? ]

"For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error." II Peter 2:18

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: CONCUPISCENCE Greek = Epithumia Other words used: Lusts, Covet

AMPLIFICATION: A strong desire of any kind. Example: An abnormal sexual appetite.

REFERENCES:

"That every one of you should know how to posess his vessel in sanctification and honor; not in the lust of consupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God." I Thessalonians 4:4,5

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." Romans 6:12 [NT FTW :lol: ]

"...for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Romans 7:7

"...thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife..." Exodus 20:17

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: DEFRAUD [ :dance: ] Greek = Pleonekteo Other words used: Covetous, Greediness [this makes zero sense, lol]

AMPLIFICATION: Attempting to take advantage of another person in order to satisfy evil desires. Example: To arouse sexual desires in another which cannot be righteously satisfied. [Drink!]

REFERENCES:

"That no one go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: (of concupiscence) because that the Lord is the avenger of all such..." I Thessalonians 4:6 [shouldn't that colon be on this side of the parentheses? I'm confused]

"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous..." I Corinthians 5:11

"Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness." Ephesians 4:19

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: REPROBRATE Greek = Apokimos

AMPLIFICATION: Unprincipled, depraved, unable to discern evil. [i guess this is Free Jinger :shock: ]

REFERENCES:

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient." Romans 1:28 [Hmm, this is the most succint of all of the definitions.]

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: FORNICATION Greek = Porneia

AMPLIFICATION: Unlawful sexual activity outside the marriage relationship.

REFERENCES:

"Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body." I Corinthians 6:18

"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication." I Thessalonians 4:3

SCRIPTURAL TERMS: LIBERTY Greek = Eleutheria Other words used: Free [Can I just say that adjectives can't be synonyms for nouns? :angry-banghead: ]

AMPLIFICATION: Not the right to do what we want, but the new desire and power to do what we ought.

REFERENCES:

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Galations 5:1

"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. Galations 5:13

I don't know the bible very well, but I get the distinct impression that Gothard twists it even more than a run of the mill, cherry picking christian would. Please share your thoughts on this; I know there are folks here who have many differing (but all superior to this poppycock, I'm sure) interpretations of scripture. Educate me! This is a perversion of the bible, right? Please say yes!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, that's the whole verse. Get it out of the KJV-speak and it sounds better like this from the NIV version: "Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well now I know how the Duggars (and the like) know some big words. KJV is so difficult to read, IMO. It's like reading a college textbook with $15 words to explain a 5 cent topic.

To give you an idea on Galations 5:1 (Liberty)- this is the New Revised Catholic version of the same passage:

1 For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

And NIV

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

For I Corinthians 5:11 -(defrauding section) - Catholic version

But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother or sister[a] who is sexually immoral or greedy, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber. Do not even eat with such a one.

And NIV

11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

but of course one line in any book in the Bible cannot be read alone to have context. So for the last one ( I Corinthians 5:11) the entire passage (NIV) is here:

Dealing With a Case of Incest

5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this? 3 For my part, even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. As one who is present with you in this way, I have already passed judgment in the name of our Lord Jesus on the one who has been doing this. 4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

6 Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of the old yeast, so that you may be a new unleavened batch—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[c] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.â€

Ironic huh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

halcionne, I'm curious to know if there is a definition for 'abomination'?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

but of course one line in any book in the Bible cannot be read alone to have context. So for the last one ( I Corinthians 5:11) the entire passage (NIV) is here:

Ironic huh?

Ironic, indeed. I'm reading 9-11 as a call not to associate with hypocrites, too. :whistle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.