Questions about religion( Christianity)

[Toothfairy]

My son is debating and questioning Christianity. He's throwing questions at me that I really can't answer. Maybe FJ can help me.

Some Christians believe Christianity is the only true religion. Everyone is going to hell and when Judgment day comes everyone will bow down to God. However there are many different types of religion.

In Islam, the one unforgivable sin is called shirk, and basically means worshiping a being other than Allah (such as Jesus). So if Islam is right, all the Christians are going to hell. If Hinduism is right, then nobody will go to hell, but you will be reincarnated. What if Zeus and the Greek Gods are the true religion? Jehovah witnesses believe only 144k will go to heaven and anyone not a JW isn't going to heaven. Buddhist believe in rebirth and many gods. As for Heaven and Hell its right here on Earth. This is where all the suffering and happiness happens. So what's the true religion? Basically everyone is going to hell including the Christians. How can a nonbeliever or a person of a different religion go to hell if they might not believe in hell or heaven?

The only reason why christians use hell as a method of turning atheists and other people of different faiths into Christians is because there isn't anything else for them to use as a pushing motive. Fear is the only thing they can use because they don't have any real proof that their god exists and is the right way to go.

2. If the bible is the word of God and "land of the law" why isn't rape, murder, incest, slavery, polygamy legal? If God said love your neighbor and enemy then why do people disown, hate, and look down upon others? Why not help them?

3. My son firmly believes bible was written by man not God. He finds it sad and depressing. He said he would never follow any God like that. My son said there's no proof to suggest we have a creator, but plenty to say we don't, including LAWS of SCIENCE. The thermodynamics law is that matter (our universe, forces within it) CANNOT be created, cannot be destroyed, it can only change. There's NO evidence to remotely suggest we have a designer. We come up with theories because we find physical EVIDENCE, which leads us to speculate something. But we have the theory BECAUSE of EVIDENCE, the theory only comes as a result of the evidence. For example, evolution - Darwin thought what he did AFTER his data pointed him in a direction. And there's facts to suggest it is true, such as; cabbage DNA is 50% the same as human DNA.. People share 97% DNA with apes. Fossils which are found from all the ages, which prove things about our past. If the humans who came up with the idea of "God" thousands of years ago had NOT done, NOBODY would believe it today. NOBODY today would even think of the prospect of a "god", because there is NO EVIDENCE to link to it being factual. All the evidence, and every new piece of evidence that crops up, suggests we DON'T have a 'god'. People who say we "must have" a creator, well who created God? Who created God's creator, and so on? You'd never stop. The ONLY arguments for believing in God are abstract ones, things like, 'we're too complex to just be here by chance', or, 'someone must have a plan for us'. And what has lead you to think these things, what factual, physical proof has lead you to this conclusion? Nothing. But still he said there's no proof that there isn't a god.

4. Things get added in and changed. Words, meanings, things get added and/or removed. Things get lost in translation. Was the bible simply teachings and stories that were passed down through the generations by word of mouth? Look at newspapers and the media outlets today. They're constantly making mistakes or misrepresenting the news! Look at the scientific revolution and the Enlightenment. They were both big changes in history.

5. Christians always say god doesn't make mistakes. So why are people against gay marriage and gays? Or helping the illegal immigrants? Or tells a woman god doesn't love her because she got an abortion? Isn't God the creator of all things? So clearly he created gays, abortion, and for us to help illegals. He created them for us to love them. Not to hate them and deny them their rights. Then hide behind God to condone your actions.

6. What if it's not real? When you die you've been fooled, brainwashed and tricked into living a certain way just because God told you to. There's not guarantee to heaven. So why do things because God tells you to or not to do? Why can't deeds come from within? Why cant people just have a good heart? Why can't we just accept people different than us? I doubt God would allow anyone into heaven if they treat others like shit.

7. What makes one persons life more valuable than others? Why would God save your life but not the life of others? Why does God allow kids to be abused? Or people to get raped or murdered? Why do people praise God instead of also thanking the doctors? Does pray really work? Or do people pray because it gives them hope? It makes them believe there's someone up there listening and hopefully things will turn out the way they want to.

Why do people praise God for the good, but not the bad? Why don't christians ever apply the bible to their own life but use it as a shield to get their point across or to harm others?

8. Why was there a need for a new testament? Why didn't God write both the old testament and new one together? So does that mean God can change his mind on things? The New Testament is god's "new covenant", but you only need a "new" one if there is a problem with the old one.

I've been trying to answer some of his questions the best way I know how. Like churches being a business. Or why there's evil, but some I don't know how to answer. My son is thinking about becoming an atheist, a buddhist, or reject the bible and just believe in God. He's mostly leaning towards buddhism. He looked up some quotes and they were very inspiring. But he's still struggling and questioning his beliefs. If any of you Fjers can help me, it's appreciated.

[VelociRapture]

My son is debating and questioning Christianity. He's throwing questions at me that I really can't answer. Maybe FJ can help me.

Some Christians believe Christianity is the only true religion. Everyone is going to hell and when Judgment day comes everyone will bow down to God. However there are many different types of religion.

In Islam, the one unforgivable sin is called shirk, and basically means worshiping a being other than Allah (such as Jesus). So if Islam is right, all the Christians are going to hell. If Hinduism is right, then nobody will go to hell, but you will be reincarnated. What if Zeus and the Greek Gods are the true religion? Jehovah witnesses believe only 144k will go to heaven and anyone not a JW isn't going to heaven. Buddhist believe in rebirth and many gods. As for Heaven and Hell its right here on Earth. This is where all the suffering and happiness happens. So what's the true religion? Basically everyone is going to hell including the Christians. How can a nonbeliever or a person of a different religion go to hell if they might not believe in hell or heaven?

The only reason why christians use hell as a method of turning atheists and other people of different faiths into Christians is because there isn't anything else for them to use as a pushing motive. Fear is the only thing they can use because they don't have any real proof that their god exists and is the right way to go.

2. If the bible is the word of God and "land of the law" why isn't rape, murder, incest, slavery, polygamy legal? If God said love your neighbor and enemy then why do people disown, hate, and look down upon others? Why not help them?

3. My son firmly believes bible was written by man not God. He finds it sad and depressing. He said he would never follow any God like that. My son said there's no proof to suggest we have a creator, but plenty to say we don't, including LAWS of SCIENCE. The thermodynamics law is that matter (our universe, forces within it) CANNOT be created, cannot be destroyed, it can only change. There's NO evidence to remotely suggest we have a designer. We come up with theories because we find physical EVIDENCE, which leads us to speculate something. But we have the theory BECAUSE of EVIDENCE, the theory only comes as a result of the evidence. For example, evolution - Darwin thought what he did AFTER his data pointed him in a direction. And there's facts to suggest it is true, such as; cabbage DNA is 50% the same as human DNA.. People share 97% DNA with apes. Fossils which are found from all the ages, which prove things about our past. If the humans who came up with the idea of "God" thousands of years ago had NOT done, NOBODY would believe it today. NOBODY today would even think of the prospect of a "god", because there is NO EVIDENCE to link to it being factual. All the evidence, and every new piece of evidence that crops up, suggests we DON'T have a 'god'. People who say we "must have" a creator, well who created God? Who created God's creator, and so on? You'd never stop. The ONLY arguments for believing in God are abstract ones, things like, 'we're too complex to just be here by chance', or, 'someone must have a plan for us'. And what has lead you to think these things, what factual, physical proof has lead you to this conclusion? Nothing. But still he said there's no proof that there isn't a god.

4. Things get added in and changed. Words, meanings, things get added and/or removed. Things get lost in translation. Was the bible simply teachings and stories that were passed down through the generations by word of mouth? Look at newspapers and the media outlets today. They're constantly making mistakes or misrepresenting the news! Look at the scientific revolution and the Enlightenment. They were both big changes in history.

5. Christians always say god doesn't make mistakes. So why are people against gay marriage and gays? Or helping the illegal immigrants? Or tells a woman god doesn't love her because she got an abortion? Isn't God the creator of all things? So clearly he created gays, abortion, and for us to help illegals. He created them for us to love them. Not to hate them and deny them their rights. Then hide behind God to condone your actions.

6. What if it's not real? When you die you've been fooled, brainwashed and tricked into living a certain way just because God told you to. There's not guarantee to heaven. So why do things because God tells you to or not to do? Why can't deeds come from within? Why cant people just have a good heart? Why can't we just accept people different than us? I doubt God would allow anyone into heaven if they treat others like shit.

7. What makes one persons life more valuable than others? Why would God save your life but not the life of others? Why does God allow kids to be abused? Or people to get raped or murdered? Why do people praise God instead of also thanking the doctors? Does pray really work? Or do people pray because it gives them hope? It makes them believe there's someone up there listening and hopefully things will turn out the way they want to.

Why do people praise God for the good, but not the bad? Why don't christians ever apply the bible to their own life but use it as a shield to get their point across or to harm others?

8. Why was there a need for a new testament? Why didn't God write both the old testament and new one together? So does that mean God can change his mind on things? The New Testament is god's "new covenant", but you only need a "new" one if there is a problem with the old one.

I've been trying to answer some of his questions the best way I know how. Like churches being a business. Or why there's evil, but some I don't know how to answer. My son is thinking about becoming an atheist, a buddhist, or reject the bible and just believe in God. He's mostly leaning towards buddhism. He looked up some quotes and they were very inspiring. But he's still struggling and questioning his beliefs. If any of you Fjers can help me, it's appreciated.

I really wish I could help you with this, but to be honest I'm struggling the same way your son is at the moment. I was born and raised Catholic, lapsed around the time I was confirmed (13), and have wavered between Atheism and Agnosticism ever since. The past few years, I've really been struggling with whether or not God exists - and, if so, which religion has it right.

In my own opinion, I take the view that Aslan has in, "The Chronicles of Narnia." Anyone gets into Heaven (or rewarded or whatever) regardless of what they believe or worship or what they don't believe. . . so long as you are a good person who tried to help others. I personally believe that people who have a vendetta against LGBTQ people will not be allowed into Heaven if they attempt to deny those people equal rights, but that's just me.

For why there is evil in the world, I think it has more to do with human nature than religion. We all have the potential to do good and we all have the potential to do evil. When something horrific happens (like a murder) it's because the person responsible committed an evil act. Some people believe God has some role to play in those things, but I take the view that if God exists they would take a more passive role - for instance, giving us free will and allowing us to act on it. I don't think I explained this well, so sorry if its confusing. If it helps, maybe point out that even Jesus was known to be impulsive and angry at times (the instances with the Fig Tree and trashing the Temple of Jerusalem comes to mind).

I agree with your son that the New Testament (and Old Testament, Koran, and other holy works) were written by man. As such, they are subject to personal interpretations and mistakes are made when translating.

I think that most people do good deeds out a desire to helps others rather than just out of fear of eternal damnation. I'm sure there people who only helps others in order to get into Heaven. . . however, we live in a harsh world (and always have) where humans have to band together in order to survive - that whole strength in numbers thing.

When it comes to how the universe began, I think it's important to remember that even science has no firm answers on anything. There are different theories, but no one can say with complete certainty how the universe actually began or why the laws of science came into being. My own belief is with the Big Bang Theory - however, I also believe there is the possibility that a Creator of some sort may have set the Big Bang Theory into motion somehow.

I think that your son sounds like a very insightful and thoughtful young man. It also says a great deal about you that he felt comfortable enough coming to you about this, instead of trying to figure this all out in secret. My best advice would just to keep doing your best to answer his questions, encouraging him to learn more about various belief systems, and to take his time in figuring out what he believes. As for you, keep being supportive of his search and honest about your own beliefs - and do your best to accept whatever beliefs he settles on.

[Fascinated]

I can't give you a deep, thoughtful response, Toothfairy. But you have managed to list many of the reasons why I am an atheist. And why my husband is now, after being raised Catholic. And why my sons are. Your questions, in my mind, do not have answers. Because there is no god. No heaven. No hell. I knew this with absolute certainty years ago when I saw a Life magazine with the cover stating in huge letters: Finding God on Flight XYZ. Those few who survived this horrific crash did so because of god. I needed no other proof.

I always picture the earth from outer space, as perhaps a god would, and I 'see' what the humans down there are doing to each other and have always done to each other (often in the name of their god). If he's out there he's either laughing his ass off or appalled at the terrible job he did. I'm not being facetious. I really imagine this. There cannot be a god.

That doesn't help your son at all, I'm sure. But you got my blood going a bit. I hope together you and he can find the answers he is looking for.

[circularlogic]

It seems to me that he has already answered his (and your) questions. I am an abstract thinker and when my mind gets rolling, I am determined to 'get to the bottom' of whatever my topic of interest is at the moment. The 'god' topic is a doozy but sometimes a fun ride. It always takes me to the same conclusion....I just don't know and neither does anybody else. We have made up stories to explain the unexplainable. Moreover, does it really matter whether we were made, created, evolved or if we have a destiny and that someone/something wrote my life story eons before my conception? Bottom line is that I am. You are. Your son is. And to the questions about evil, hate, horrific acts & events - I don't know that there is an answer. Things just happen and some people aren't very nice. Personally, I don't believe that those events or actions are guided by a supernatureal spirit. I think they are either innate or tragic accidents by faulty equipment, etc.

I applaud him for his deep thought and love the questions he has posed. Sometimes, though, I think we all over think a thing because we didn't get either the answer we wanted or even a definitive answer at all.

I don't know if that helped at all. Those were just my immediate thoughts after i read your post. Good luck to him!

[Geechee Girl]

I think it's wonderful your son has such an inquiring mind, Toothfairy! Miss GG has had some similar questions, and she's somewhere between animatism & agnosticism. She says the closest she's felt to a higher power was we we attended Lakota Sundance. I don't have the answers about Christianity. The bible doesn't make sense to me. I feel religions have been corrupted by man through dogma. Doing the right thing and being good should be intuitive. I never understood why morality is tied to religion. I tell my girl that the search for her path can be lifelong, and she'll most likely flow through different faiths or schools of thought before finding the one right for her, even if it's atheism.

Toothfairy, I wish your boy success and patience in finding his path. May the answers he receive give him comfort and security.

[BrownieMomma]

Just want to say that many of these issues I have wrestled with all my life and I just turned 51. I now have my own personal beliefs and that is my belief system, although I continue to participate in a church with whom I am at odds with a lot of the beliefs. I participate because I like the people and this is the closest I have to family and friends at this juncture of my life.

The part that jumped out most to me would be to illustrate the difference between those who believe the Bible literallySola scriptura (SBC, my Pentecostal church) and those who don't - Catholics. Even with those who agree the Bible is literal, there are the different thoughts that Pentecostals believe KJV only and Baptists don't, and in fact IME Baptists never use KJV and might only occasionally use New KJV.

Because of the big issues I considered as I began to question my Baptist beliefs and background - who really had the ultimate authority to decide what was in this book in my hand, this Bible? Who decided what books go in the Bible? And seeking that answer led me to the concepts of Catholicism, a lineage they claim in an unbroken line back to Peter - and a pope who is the final authority.

It can get so confusing. I mean, as a Baptist I have a pastor who preaches from the pulpit with his authority. Each church has its own autonomy but local churches band together and join up with the Southern Baptist Convention, so therefore accepting the beliefs and tenets of that organization. If they don't accept the tenets, sometimes they leave and form the Cooperative Fellowship.

But then the pastor tells me I have a responsibility to read the Bible and decide things for myself. The priesthood of the believer, he calls it.

So who, really, is in charge of the church here on earth? Does God really mean for such confusion to reign? Then I always, always remember the Tower of Babel and I think maybe God scattered men in more ways than just language, He scatters them and keeps them from becoming too arrogant and powerful and attempting another tower to reach the heavens.

That's all I got right now. If I think of anything pithy or worthwhile I'll come back and offer it up.

[VelociRapture]

Just want to say that many of these issues I have wrestled with all my life and I just turned 51. I now have my own personal beliefs and that is my belief system, although I continue to participate in a church with whom I am at odds with a lot of the beliefs. I participate because I like the people and this is the closest I have to family and friends at this juncture of my life.

The part that jumped out most to me would be to illustrate the difference between those who believe the Bible literallySola scriptura (SBC, my Pentecostal church) and those who don't - Catholics. Even with those who agree the Bible is literal, there are the different thoughts that Pentecostals believe KJV only and Baptists don't, and in fact IME Baptists never use KJV and might only occasionally use New KJV.

Because of the big issues I considered as I began to question my Baptist beliefs and background - who really had the ultimate authority to decide what was in this book in my hand, this Bible? Who decided what books go in the Bible? And seeking that answer led me to the concepts of Catholicism, a lineage they claim in an unbroken line back to Peter - and a pope who is the final authority.

It can get so confusing. I mean, as a Baptist I have a pastor who preaches from the pulpit with his authority. Each church has its own autonomy but local churches band together and join up with the Southern Baptist Convention, so therefore accepting the beliefs and tenets of that organization. If they don't accept the tenets, sometimes they leave and form the Cooperative Fellowship.

But then the pastor tells me I have a responsibility to read the Bible and decide things for myself. The priesthood of the believer, he calls it.

So who, really, is in charge of the church here on earth? Does God really mean for such confusion to reign? Then I always, always remember the Tower of Babel and I think maybe God scattered men in more ways than just language, He scatters them and keeps them from becoming too arrogant and powerful and attempting another tower to reach the heavens.

That's all I got right now. If I think of anything pithy or worthwhile I'll come back and offer it up.

Just wanted to say that I never thought about the bolded before, but I really like that way of looking at things.

Also, I was raised Catholic. I was always under the impression that Catholics did take a more literal view of the Bible than some other denominations did - especially when it comes to the topic of Transubstantiation. Then again, I never really paid much attention during CCD, so I could be completely wrong.

And I do have one question for you: I'm undergoing a spiritual crisis at the moment. I'm almost positive that I believe in God at this point and I was raised Christian - naturally, I'm being drawn towards what I was raised with. I know that I'm not a Catholic (for various reasons), but I don't know what denomination I would fall into. I felt far more comfortable attending an Episcopal service than I ever have in a Catholic Church and I'm drawn to the fact that they seem much more accepting of people than the Catholic Church is.

The problem is that I don't know what I believe about Jesus. I'd like for things to be easy for me and just be able to believe he was the son of God. . . but I have a very rational mind and I find it difficult to suspend my perception of reality to make the miracles and biblical stories fit. Do you know of any resources, websites, or books that might be able to help me figure out what I believe? Is it possible to be a Christian and believe that Jesus was speaking metaphorically when he spoke about being the son of God or that he was attempting to say that all humans are children of God (and not just him)? Is it possible to be a part of a certain Church while disagreeing with them on certain theological points? I'm thinking of trying to attend services at the Episcopal Church again and, eventually, asking the Pastor there these questions. . . but I feel more comfortable asking them here first.

(Sorry for the thread jack, but I honestly don't know where else to ask this stuff :cry: )

[2xx1xy1JD]

Not a Christian, but I'll try to answer one question at a time.

#1 - The threat of hell IMHO isn't meant for those who don't believe in that faith - it's meant for those who do, to keep them in line, stop them from questioning too much and provide some separation from non-believers.

As a Jew, I knew that the hell threat existed but it was never something that we took seriously. We'd just joke about people who thought that we were heading straight to hell, and took it as seriously as Santa Claus not giving gifts or fearing that the fly you killed might really be a reincarnated ancestor. [i once used that example - which is a real Jain belief - on someone who asked if I was scared of the Rapture. She didn't really understand the question, and was all "but the Rapture is REAL, unlike that silly Jain belief". Well....I don't think either belief is true, but if I had to pick, the Jain belief seems more plausible to me.] I had no idea that people were honestly terrified of hell until I started posting here.

[2xx1xy1JD]

#2 - I'm not exactly sure what your son is trying to ask here. Christianity is not the law of the land in the United States, which is a democracy and not a theocracy.

Laws from the OT were part of the law of the land in ancient Judea, but they were read and applied in a different way from the typical fundie reading - the Pharisees had an extensive oral tradition that interpreted and supplemented the written text, courts had procedural rules and a system of precedents developed.

In European history, the power of the Church sometimes supported political power, sometimes clashed with it. For example, in England, the Lord Chancellor was traditionally a churchman until the reign of Henry VIII (the one with the 8 wives who got pissed off with the church for refusing to allowing his to divorce). Over time, a system developed where people who couldn't get what they wanted through the common-law courts would petition the Lord Chancellor, and this developed into the Court of Equity. Vestiges of this still remain in the legal system.

Different Christian groups have interpreted various Biblical laws in different ways at different times. The mainstream Christian view is that polygamy is not permitted, and most Christian countries do in fact ban it. There are specific prohibitions against a list of incestuous relationships in the Bible, and many of those same prohibitions exist in law (with some variation from place to place). As for rape - the traditional view saw rape as not so much a crime against the woman herself, but as a crime against her honor and that of her family. Until very recently (1983 in Canada), marital rape was not a crime. There were different Christian views on slavery - some argued that it had to be okay because it's not explicitly prohibited in the Bible and the NT tells slaves to obey their masters, some argued that the entire story of the Exodus shows that slavery is morally wrong. Some Christians will say that there is a distinction between things that simply existed in Biblical times, and things that are explicitly commanded.

Loving your neighbor and even loving your enemy sound like simple phrases, but they are actually really difficult, all-consuming commandments, and they go against some aspects of human nature. So, the simple answer is that we aren't perfect, we struggle with selfishness and as humans, we tend to divide into groups and fight and want to feel superior to others. We shouldn't, we should help others more, but we often don't. Church officials and religious people in general are not immune to this struggle.

[VelociRapture]

#2 - In European history, the power of the Church sometimes supported political power, sometimes clashed with it. For example, in England, the Lord Chancellor was traditionally a churchman until the reign of Henry VIII (the one with the 8 wives who got pissed off with the church for refusing to allowing his to divorce). Over time, a system developed where people who couldn't get what they wanted through the common-law courts would petition the Lord Chancellor, and this developed into the Court of Equity. Vestiges of this still remain in the legal system.

Not to be a know-it-all, but Henry the VIII only had six wives:

Catherine of Aragon

Anne Boleyn

Jane Seymour

Anne of Cleves

Katherine Howard

Catherine Parr

The rest of your post was good though, especially your last paragraph. I think you explained that very well. :)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Not to be a know-it-all, but Henry the VIII only had six wives:

Catherine of Aragon

Anne Boleyn

Jane Seymour

Anne of Cleves

Katherine Howard

Catherine Parr

The rest of your post was good though, especially your last paragraph. I think you explained that very well. :)

Sorry for the brain fart. Now I've got the jingle 'Henry the 8th" in my head - "I got married to the woman next door, she's been married 7 times before, and every one was a Henry.."