Jessa Duggar-Seewald Is Pregnant - Part 2

[soundofa]

The Seewald's website looks like both the Duggar Family website and the Dillard Family website, but it's not linked by either of those two, so idk. I guess we watch for a link? That is the family's template, though.

I'm almost positive all three are made from a service called Weebly. There's a free version, but the Duggars have the paid version (~$8/month) so they don't have the weebly in the url. I have a few websites from the service, but it's definitely easy to tell if they are produced by the brand. I know Lawson Bates also has one.

[Ralar]

Venessa Giron CPM,LM offers complete midwifery care in the Northwest Arkansas and NorthEast Oklahoma area. Please call for a FREE consultation!

General Information

Venessa Giron is a Certified Professional Midwife licensed in Arkansas and Texas, and she has participated in over 400 births at home, in birthing centers, and in the hospital since 2000. She is passionate about her ministry of serving women in their desire to birth naturally. As a senior, experienced midwife she is also enthusiastic about sharing her expertise and wisdom in the time-honored tradition of apprenticeship and has participated in the training of over 40 students. Venessa is also fluent in Spanish.

So her job is a "ministry." Do fundies feel inadequate if they have a "job," rather than a "ministry?"

[halcionne]

I'm almost positive all three are made from a service called Weebly. There's a free version, but the Duggars have the paid version (~$8/month) so they don't have the weebly in the url. I have a few websites from the service, but it's definitely easy to tell if they are produced by the brand. I know Lawson Bates also has one.

Do you recognize the template they used, or did one of them create it and the other copy-pasted?

[halcionne]

So her job is a "ministry." Do fundies feel inadequate if they have a "job," rather than a "ministry?"

It's not just fundies, it's evangelicals, imo

[ILoveJellybeans]

I feel sad about this, I don't want her to change into just another clone of her mother. I hope it doesn't change her into something she really is not, the sort of person she would think was annoying before she got pregnant. Shes unique in her family because of her strong personality, the one that stands out because she has the opposite personality to what they think a woman should be like...and it would be a shame for the culture to finally break her, after she has kept her spirit for the years of being crushed by her parents and likely hours of beatings for just being a child. Shes really one of the only interesting people on the show, and it would be a shame to see her turn into a dead eyed, baby voiced, "sweet" Michelle clone that looks and sounds like the baby pulled her brain out along with her placenta. Or like she had a lobotomy during pregnancy or something.

I always see her as a lot like Michelle was before she sold her soul and uterus. If Jessa was normal she would be the pretty popular cheerleader like Michelle was as a teenager....and it would be sad to see them both have the same fate. Michelle is beyond saving, but I hope that Jessa gets a better fate than her mother. Same for all the kids too.

Hopefully she will do fine as a parent. Its too early to tell, because I guess theres a difference between your own child and the child your parents forced you to raise when you were tiny at the cost of your own childhood. I do feel a bit more worried about the idea of her having a kid than I did with Jill, because she seems less mature (and is married to someone who is barely even a legal adult) and also less maternal, and I don't think she will enjoy having a whole bunch of kids.

[SassyPants]

I feel sad about this, I don't want her to change into just another clone of her mother. I hope it doesn't change her into something she really is not, the sort of person she would think was annoying before she got pregnant. Shes unique in her family because of her strong personality, the one that stands out because she has the opposite personality to what they think a woman should be like...and it would be a shame for the culture to finally break her, after she has kept her spirit for the years of being crushed by her parents and likely hours of beatings for just being a child. Shes really one of the only interesting people on the show, and it would be a shame to see her turn into a dead eyed, baby voiced, "sweet" Michelle clone that looks and sounds like the baby pulled her brain out along with her placenta. Or like she had a lobotomy during pregnancy or something.

I always see her as a lot like Michelle was before she sold her soul and uterus. If Jessa was normal she would be the pretty popular cheerleader like Michelle was as a teenager....and it would be sad to see them both have the same fate. Michelle is beyond saving, but I hope that Jessa gets a better fate than her mother. Same for all the kids too.

Hopefully she will do fine as a parent. Its too early to tell, because I guess theres a difference between your own child and the child your parents forced you to raise when you were tiny at the cost of your own childhood. I do feel a bit more worried about the idea of her having a kid than I did with Jill, because she seems less mature (and is married to someone who is barely even a legal adult) and also less maternal, and I don't think she will enjoy having a whole bunch of kids.

I think it is sad that she is in a personality V vocation mismatch.

If she was not brainwashed by her cult and family, she would not be married or pregnant. She would be out doing her her own thing.

I also feel bad for the kid, her husband. He is infatuated and will get to deal with the fall out once that baby arrives.

I bet Jessa is a Biotch on wheels at home, mainly d/t frustration...I cannot imagine a baby helping her smooth out her rough personality.

When I say rough personality, it's only glaring because of the cult and what she has been forced to accept.

Such a waste of a life.

I cannot imagine Jessa keeping sweet for the next 6 decades.

[grandmadugger]

The below is a c/p from here FB page. She is not a CNM, she is a CPM and a LM, not sure what a LM is, maybe a lay midwife? She also says she has done hospital births so maybe the VBAC are done in a hospital.

She also says she is certified in AR and TX but not OK even though she offers care there. Maybe you don't have to be licensed to deliver babies in OK. I live there and sadly it would not surprise me because freedom.

Her profile picture includes Jill.

From FB:

Short Description

Venessa Giron CPM,LM offers complete midwifery care in the Northwest Arkansas and NorthEast Oklahoma area. Please call for a FREE consultation!

General Information

Venessa Giron is a Certified Professional Midwife licensed in Arkansas and Texas, and she has participated in over 400 births at home, in birthing centers, and in the hospital since 2000. She is passionate about her ministry of serving women in their desire to birth naturally. As a senior, experienced midwife she is also enthusiastic about sharing her expertise and wisdom in the time-honored tradition of apprenticeship and has participated in the training of over 40 students. Venessa is also fluent in Spanish.

Ok doing some sleuthing. CPM is Certified Professional Midwife but Arkansas doesn't recognize it. They only list Physician, CNM (certified nurse midwife), and lay midwife. So in Arkansas she would be found under the lay midwife stuff. I know she had some issues a while back and was sanctioned. That might be why she dropped off the list.

[halcionne]

Ok doing some sleuthing. CPM is Certified Professional Midwife but Arkansas doesn't recognize it. They only list Physician, CNM (certified nurse midwife), and lay midwife. So in Arkansas she would be found under the lay midwife stuff. I know she had some issues a while back and was sanctioned. That might be why she dropped off the list.

I'm very interested to know why she was sanctioned. Mostly because I'm nosy as hell.

[OodOnTheLoo]

does anyone have any idea if these young women have ever seen a gyno before getting married? After?

If so do you think they are expected to take an accountability partner to ensure there is no birth control talk?

Did Jessa really have any option other than to get preg? I'm sure right now it's all good with the attention and money from the media but will she have a chance to get b/c if she wants?

[nst]

does anyone have any idea if these young women have ever seen a gyno before getting married? After?

If so do you think they are expected to take an accountability partner to ensure there is no birth control talk?

Did Jessa really have any option other than to get preg? I'm sure right now it's all good with the attention and money from the media but will she have a chance to get b/c if she wants?

I think she felt the freedom she always wanted for at least four months of her 22 years on earth

that should count for something

[grandmadugger]

I'm very interested to know why she was sanctioned. Mostly because I'm nosy as hell.

We talked about it in one of the 4000 Jill threads. If I remember correctly she had a client who had tested positive for strep B. The baby ended up having some issues and was transferred. The hospital missed it too and the baby almost died.

It took me a while but here's the post about the delivery in Feb. 2014

We are in need of prayers, positive thoughts and a miracle! On Tuesday of this week, sweet Jozzie was born at 5:32 am. Around 7 am, she began to show signs of respiratory distress and was transported to the local hospital. The pediatrician took xray that showed no signs of infection, just that she had premature lungs. By 1pm, her blood pressure bottomed out and was life flighted to Children's. After 48 hours, she is on ECMO , with seizures and a brain bleed. Mama did EVERYTHING she was advised as far as antibiotic treatment, but Jozzie still has Group B Strep. Our sweet girl is fighting for her life... Please send up prayers for her and especially her parents who are physically and emotionally exhausted! Love and Health to all!

Feb 2015 she posted this on her personal page

WARNING- Honest Post.

One year ago today, my world was rocked and changed forever.. No, I didn't get married, no- I didn't have a baby , no - no one died.. Thankfully!

A year ago, a very sick baby was in my hands. She gave me mixed signals, she looked me in the eye for the last time for another 3 weeks ... I made the best decisions I could; I fought for a mother's right to birth where she wanted, I fought for my right to make the call...The journey that came afterward was excruciating and has, honestly, left me scarred. The year seemed so dark and lonely -- only to leave me feeling betrayed. I am so grateful to God for his miracles, even in this modern day. I am grateful for His mercy and grace ! I am thankful for healing . I am thankful that she is a beautiful 1yr old ... And I am still standing. Happy Birthday Beautiful!

And this in June 2015

Meeting is over , it didn't go over well but I expected nothing other than that- It was in regard to Baby Jozzie and in the end , I was told that I was negligent ...so sad. I will cry and sleep this off and keep doing what I love to do as long as I am able ! Prayers are appreciated .. Love to all

[halcionne]

Okay that is starting to ring bells, but I hadn't realized Venessa was the midwife in that story.

Quick question, for those who know: is 400 babies in 15 years reasonable? That's about 26/year, or two a month. Seems low. Maybe she wasn't practicing the whole time. Or maybe that's how many she wanted. It doesn't matter; I'm just curious.

And another: how is Jill supposed to finish her training if her teacher can't practice? ;)

[ClaraOswin]

So why exactly was she negligent? The woman shouldn't have had a home birth?

And I don't understand that part where she says she looked in the baby's eyes for the last time for 3 weeks.

And she posted something in June 2015? Is she in the future??

[carebaer]

Homebirth midwives will frequently only take a couple of women per month based on due dates. Unlike a hospital where much of the work is done by nurses and the doctor only really needs to be there for the actual birth or if there are complications, midwives may be with a mom for hours/days while she is in labor and then checking in to check/support with the newborn. That's difficult to do if you have another woman in labor at the same time.

I stalked the Mommy's Butterly and the midwife's personal (public) page when the discussion of negligence came up before. Nothing she posted gave a specific reason why she was found negligent. Although that leaves open both the possibility that she took the blame as a homebirth midwife and that she left out details from her posts that would have clearly showed negligence.

The reference to 3 weeks was because the baby was in the NICU for 3 weeks. (Although there are pictures of her visiting in the NICU so it's also a bit over-dramatic.)

[eri]

So why exactly was she negligent? The woman shouldn't have had a home birth?

And I don't understand that part where she says she looked in the baby's eyes for the last time for 3 weeks.

And she posted something in June 2015? Is she in the future??

Jill definitiely should have went to the hospital for a consult after her due date passed, but the anti-home-birth circlejerk makes my eyes roll out my mouth. "Too smug for a hospital, huh Jill? [emoji57] [emoji57] [emoji57] [emoji57] [emoji57] [emoji57] " -- Who's being smug again?!

[ClaraOswin]

I wasn't asking about Venessa being negligent in Jill's case. I was talking about the one where she was apparently found to be negligent with another baby (mentioned a few posts up.)

I don't think anyone is smug for wanting a home birth. Definitely not something I'd ever choose though.

[MalteseBaby]

I came out of lurkdom mostly to snark about Jill and her FU'ed L&D and her many probable lies ( I wasn't there but I am one of the many nurses here), but it had all been said by the time I remembered my account details.

So,I'll say what I think about Jessa and Ben and their poor unfortunate fetus.

It's so sad to me that this couple is able to reproduce. I had seriously hoped for permanent infertility. IMO, this will be the most fucked up third gen. fundie kid of all, and any siblings will join the rank as well.

I made myself watch their honeymoon special ( first Duggar show I've watched in 2 years or so). I think I've figured out what's going on with Ben's red eyes and stuffy nose, and it's not the wacky weed.

I think he talks just fine and without any stuffiness or red eye when he's wearing his glasses. ( He also looks marginally better with them).

When we see him without the glasses, he's wearing contact lens. I believe he might be one of the many people who are allergic to the material his contacts are made of, hence the allergic rhinitis symptoms which make him sound like a stoner worse than his stream of semi-consciousness talking does on its own. JMO about the cause of his appearance, but I was allergic to a set of contacts and I had tearing eyes and then the stuffy nose until I figured it out and got different types of lens.

[eri]

I wasn't asking about Venessa being negligent in Jill's case. I was talking about the one where she was apparently found to be negligent with another baby (mentioned a few posts up.)

I don't think anyone is smug for wanting a home birth. Definitely not something I'd ever choose though.

I was agreeing with you :)

[Coco]

I just don't see Venessa as the kind of person who would want to take the chance of doing anything risky, but i could be wrong. How sad. I haven't read details about Jill's delivery but it sounds like in her case they were holding out for a stupid miracle or some ego thing. :| Thank goodness everything turned out okay, as far as we know.

[JHeathen]

Can we verify this? I looked around a little bit at healthy.arkansas.gov and didn't find anything. I don't know if that's the official place to look, but Jill, Jana, and Debora Query were all there as lay midwife apprentices.

Hre's the AR midwifery rules & regs: http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/aboutad ... wifery.pdf

I'm falling asleep skimming at 3:30 am, but the important stuff starts at 400 so scroll down. Looks to me like midwives are "encouraged" to have a relationship with a doctor who has privileges at a reasonably close hospital.

I didn't see anything about CNMs themselves having hospital rights, only the docs they associate with, but may have missed it. Either way, Venessa should be able to attend a hospital birth as long as she has a good relationship with the hospital/doc, and labor with Jill, just not take on the responsibility for the birth herself.

[MalteseBaby]

For what it's worth... and this is anecdotal of course, but a friend of mine delivered at the birthing center Venessa used to practice at in Cleburne and they fudged her numbers (this may have been under a different midwife than Venessa, so i'm not blaming her per se even though at the time she was one of the head midwives there), my friend was anemic and probably should have had a transfusion but they didn't put it in the report. When i went there for my own pregnancy to consult and met with them, i told Venessa and Melody that my insurance wouldn't cover the whole thing - Melody was completely nonchalant and said they'd just charge the insurance company more so that they'd get paid in full. Maybe (hopefully) they don't do that anymore, but when she mentioned it, it sounded like the routine way they got paid when people went out of network to use them. Anyway, it shocked me that they would be that blatant about bending rules, and i decided to go with a different team of caregivers. But for what it's worth Venessa always seemed like a very warm, caring person who genuinely wanted the best for her patients.

That place in Texas was set up in the beginning by and for fundies who bent rules in other ways and business practices, and they are kind of rogue, imo. Maybe that's why Venessa left and went to Arkansas. I just don't see Venessa as the kind of person who would want to justify doing anything risky because it's more 'godly' or crunchy or whatever, but i could be wrong. How sad. I haven't read details about Jill's delivery but it sounds like in her case they were holding out for a stupid miracle or some ego thing. Terrible.

I don't think Jill learned much from Venessa. Sigh. Remember, she's the Duggar daughter who was " in charge" of monitoring Michelle's fetal heart tones with the hand- held doppler while the family was on vacation. Fetus Jubilee was dead and Jill was still reporting a normal fetal heart rate, which is 120-160 beats per minute. Nothing at all like the " swoosh" of 60-90 beats per minute heard in an adult abdomen from the abdominal aorta. Finding and accurately counting FHTs is probably the most basic part of maternal/ prenatal care, too.

IF she didn't realize how little she knew after that horrible, melodramatic, drawn out fetal demise, then she is more arrogant ( or dumb) than I can imagine anyone being.

[JillyO]

does anyone have any idea if these young women have ever seen a gyno before getting married? After?

If so do you think they are expected to take an accountability partner to ensure there is no birth control talk?

Did Jessa really have any option other than to get preg? I'm sure right now it's all good with the attention and money from the media but will she have a chance to get b/c if she wants?

Don't know anything about that and I doubt that the Duggars will ever do a "Joy-Anna and Jinger are going to the OB/GYN" episode. :lol: Personally, I'm sure that none of these women go to see one until they are pregnant. I guess unless there was a real medical problem that would warrant it, though I'm sure menstrual cramps and the like would not be considered real enough.

But it's not like you can't avoid getting pregnant without using hormonal birth control. They could buy condoms (even order them online if they're worried somebody might see them) or just do NFP. NFP isn't a great way to go if you absolutely positively do not want to get pregnant, but it's definitely a good way not to have eleventy kids. So yeah, of course Jessa will have a chance to avoid pregnancy if they don't want any more children. The question is whether it's likely they'll take it.

[eri]

I don't think Jill learned much from Venessa. Sigh. Remember, she's the Duggar daughter who was " in charge" of monitoring Michelle's fetal heart tones with the hand- held doppler while the family was on vacation. Fetus Jubilee was dead and Jill was still reporting a normal fetal heart rate, which is 120-160 beats per minute. Nothing at all like the " swoosh" of 60-90 beats per minute heard in an adult abdomen from the abdominal aorta. Finding and accurately counting FHTs is probably the most basic part of maternal/ prenatal care, too.

IF she didn't realize how little she knew after that horrible, melodramatic, drawn out fetal demise, then she is more arrogant ( or dumb) than I can imagine anyone being.

What, I don't remember this episode or trip. That is so morbid and sad, and pathetic on the part of Jill. It would be completely acceptable for Jill to just admit she only has an interest in midwifery, but it is crooked for the Duggars to claim she is a midwife student capable of monitoring or actively assisting to deliver a child.

[drivingmishcrazy]

this 1000% on all levels - you should have seen me Tuesday - you would have thought a cat died :D

but now I can enjoy the ride - and I LOVE YOUR POST

:worship: :worship: :worship:

Dang, homeboy Izzy has some Flintstone feet going on there.

[halcionne]

Hre's the AR midwifery rules & regs: http://www.healthy.arkansas.gov/aboutad ... wifery.pdf

I'm falling asleep skimming at 3:30 am, but the important stuff starts at 400 so scroll down. Looks to me like midwives are "encouraged" to have a relationship with a doctor who has privileges at a reasonably close hospital.

I didn't see anything about CNMs themselves having hospital rights, only the docs they associate with, but may have missed it. Either way, Venessa should be able to attend a hospital birth as long as she has a good relationship with the hospital/doc, and labor with Jill, just not take on the responsibility for the birth herself.

Thanks for finding this and suggesting where to start. These regulations bring up several unrelated questions, so bear with me, FJ. :geek: (bolding mine)

Section 400 of these Regulations comprise the Licensed Lay Midwife Protocol.

The Licensed Lay Midwife may provide complete obstetrical care to women who are

determined to be at low risk for the development of medical or obstetrical complications

of pregnancy or childbirth

Pretty self explanatory. Lay midwife is a-ok for low risk.

406. PROTOCOLS FOR ANTEPARTUM CONDITIONS REQUIRING PHYSICIAN

INTERVENTION

Each client is to have a risk assessment (see Section 402, p 14) documented by a

Physician, CNM, or Division of Health clinician at or near the initiation of care and

again around the 36th week. The following sections detail the actions to be followed by

the Licensed Lay Midwife if the client exhibits or develops the specified condition. The

Lay Midwife will refer women for medical evaluation as soon as possible after the

condition is identified. The Lay Midwife is expected to use his/her judgment regarding

the need for consultation, referral, and transport when problems arise that are not

specified in the protocol. In addition to the birth log, such care will be documented on

an additional report.

406.1 Initial risk Assessment

The following conditions preclude midwife care and care must be transferred:

1. Previous cesarean delivery

2. Multiple gestation

3. Documented placenta previa in the third trimester

4. Position other than vertex at the onset of labor

5. Labor prior to 36 weeks gestation

Does "The following conditions preclude midwife care and care must be transferred" mean doctor only, hospital only, or something else? In any case, point 4 applies to Izzy's L&D, it seems. Point 1 applies to any of Jill's future pregnancies. Sorry, Jill.

It's really late early here, and I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I'll leave it up in case it comes back to me later. I feel silly for asking, but who was Jill's midwife? I don't remember ever seeing a name.