Derick, Jill, and Izzie

[SassyPants]

OMG thank someone's god that my parents didn't have a reality tv show when I was a baby. FJ and the rest of the world would have crucified them but then again, I was born before the time of the Mommy blogs, vlogs, chatrooms, chat sites, and this idea of good/bad mom mentality. I turned out alright, sorta! :shifty: I feel sorta bad for Jill, it's the stuff that everyone does on the first go and she is being hanged for it, not that that's an excuse, I just feel bad for her.

Here's how I look at it. In Gothardism, women have limited roles. These roles include: home, husband and children. So far, all the married Duggars have fully supported and parroted their parents' and Gothard's beliefs. IMO, a consumer (AKA the viewing audience) should be allowed to critique and discuss the girls within the context of those roles. Unfortunately, it seems the girls have not really received decent training in homemaking skills. In addition, Jill, a purported MW student, seems to lack basic knowledge and common sense in the areas of labor, delivery and infant care.

Yes, all the deficiencies are certainly MORE of a reflection of JB and M's POOR parenting and training (their word) of their children, than on the part of the kids. They appear to have released some "duds"(Joy's word) on society. However, it is my belief that once you have your own family, you no longer get to blame your parents for your deficiencies, as it is time to carve your own path and form your OWN opinions.

Further, if the Duggars did not cram their "better than" methods down their customers' throats, or have a TV forum to push their beliefs, this would be moot. They choose the spotlight for easy cash. Actions have consequences.

[Cassielfsw]

Maybe Jill just needs a public service announcement?

[Lucy H]

Here's how I look at it. In Gothardism, women have limited roles. These roles include: home, husband and children. So far, all the married Duggars have fully supported and parroted their parents' and Gothard's beliefs. IMO, a consumer (AKA the viewing audience) should be allowed to critique and discuss the girls within the context of those roles. Unfortunately, it seems the girls have not really received decent training in homemaking skills. In addition, Jill, a purported MW student, seems to lack basic knowledge and common sense in the areas of labor, delivery and infant care.

Yes, all the deficiencies are certainly MORE of a reflection of JB and M's POOR parenting and training (their word) of their children, than on the part of the kids. They appear to have released some "duds"(Joy's word) on society. However, it is my belief that once you have your own family, you no longer get to blame your parents for your deficiencies, as it is time to carve your own path and form your OWN opinions.

Further, if the Duggars did not cram their "better than" methods down their customers' throats, or have a TV forum to push their beliefs, this would be moot. They choose the spotlight for easy cash. Actions have consequences.

True. Your parents are responsible for what you are. You are responsible for what you stay.

[somanybooks]

In those photos from the conference it looks like Jill may be leaning back against Derick. His hands are more forward around her abdomen than just lightly resting on her hips and it looks like he's somewhat supporting her weight. Too bad he couldn't be wearing that sling and give her back and sore tummy a break.

[PrairieGirl]

Found under # TXfamilyconference

Who would wear a sling full of baby supplies while on stage for a speaking engagement? Izzie must be in there.

According to a blog entry at 1stpeter3verse4.blogspot.com/2015/04/ati-conference.html, this was a Duggar/Seewald/Dillard talk called Courtship, Engagement and Marriage.

Kill me now, but Josh actually looks kinda hot in that photo. And I have never been one to find him physically attractive. I know you can only see about 4% of him. Maybe that is why. Or perhaps early onset senility. Either way, kill me now.

[FundieliciousTaterTot]

Kill me now, but Josh actually looks kinda hot in that photo. And I have never been one to find him physically attractive. I know you can only see about 4% of him. Maybe that is why. Or perhaps early onset senility. Either way, kill me now.

Lol I vote for senility. Anna clinging to his arm cracks me up. Michelle with those googly eyes at JB. Grossss. ATI must be great for creep men and their egos

[SassyPants]

In those photos from the conference it looks like Jill may be leaning back against Derick. His hands are more forward around her abdomen than just lightly resting on her hips and it looks like he's somewhat supporting her weight. Too bad he couldn't be wearing that sling and give her back and sore tummy a break.

Totally agree.

[Coco]

i'm all for respect between hubby and wife but Michelle takes it to a strange level. That much worshipful subservience is not something a normal guy without a fragile ego would appreciate, they'd think it was weird and clingy. It's cult-like behavior of putting husbands and men in general in the place of God/Jesus on earth.

[Jessica]

Now we know why Jill and Derick felt compelled to go to the conference: the courtship/marriage/pregnancy testimony they were expected to give. They must have thought that Izzy would be early or on time and an easy birth that she would have had several weeks to recuperate from before being part of the conference. I wonder how long she had to stand there on stage, pretending that even a difficult birth shouldn't stop a quiverfull mom from her ministry. It's like the Duggars can't admit that sometimes they need to step back and just admit their fragility.

Srsly. Go lie down, Jill!

My midwife wants me (and all her clients) in bed getting help for a month. That's for a low-risk, uneventful, vaginal delivery with no complications after only 6 hours of labor. You don't have to try and be superwoman, Jill!

[SassyPants]

Srsly. Go lie down, Jill!

My midwife wants me (and all her clients) in bed getting help for a month. That's for a low-risk, uneventful, vaginal delivery with no complications after only 6 hours of labor. You don't have to try and be superwoman, Jill!

I do not support the get in bed and having others wait on women for a month approach. That gives birth, a natural process, an "illness" connotation. Postpartum women, especially those who had an uneventful vaginal delivery, are not sick or disabled.

Plus, it's unrealistic for the most part. Moving around, walking and ADLs are healthy for all people, especially those who have been recently hospitalized.

[Lucy H]

Srsly. Go lie down, Jill!

My midwife wants me (and all her clients) in bed getting help for a month. That's for a low-risk, uneventful, vaginal delivery with no complications after only 6 hours of labor. You don't have to try and be superwoman, Jill!

In bed sounds like very old fashioned advice. Bedrest after giving birth was advised for women fifty years ago but now new moms are advised get up and get moving as early as they are able.

Jill does not need to be at a conference right now but she also doesn't need to be in bed.

[EmmieJ]

I do not support the get in bed and having others wait on women for a month approach. That gives birth, a natural process, an "illness" connotation. Postpartum women, especially those who had an uneventful vaginal delivery, are not sick or disabled.

Plus, it's unrealistic for the most part. Moving around, walking and ADLs are healthy for all people, especially those who have been recently hospitalized.

I think there's a lot of room for happy medium between the "just had a tough labor and a C-section, but I'm on the road performing like a circus monkey anyway" and "bed rest for a month." I definitely took it easy for a few days (vaginal birth), and I did NOT take my baby out and about except to doctor's appointments, or to visit a friend and show him off, for the first couple of months. I would have hated to have to travel with my newborn, and I'm glad I didn't have to.

[Mama Mia]

I do not support the get in bed and having others wait on women for a month approach. That gives birth, a natural process, an "illness" connotation. Postpartum women, especially those who had an uneventful vaginal delivery, are not sick or disabled.

Plus, it's unrealistic for the most part. Moving around, walking and ADLs are healthy for all people, especially those who have been recently hospitalized.

Do you realize it's actually the norm , in almost every culture, throughout history, for women to have a great deal of help and very limited activity - other than caring for the baby - for aproximently 6 weeks following childbirth? For the most part, the only cultures, historically, that didn't have some sort of restricted activity and sheltering for the new mother and her infant are feudal/ slave / industrialized situations where the women - and her community- were given no choice. And leads to incredibly high maternal and child morbidity and mortality rates. The picture of a woman having her baby in the field and returning to work is a myth. An incredibly misogynist myth. It is woman honoring to provide the time and space and resources for a mother and baby to heal, regain strength, bond and establish a solid breastfeeding relationship. It also helps to protect both from illness and infection.

Birth doesn't need to be seen as a medical event to acknowledge it is a significant physical event that does take time to get the body back to its usual, healthy state.

[VelociRapture]

Here's how I look at it. In Gothardism, women have limited roles. These roles include: home, husband and children. So far, all the married Duggars have fully supported and parroted their parents' and Gothard's beliefs. IMO, a consumer (AKA the viewing audience) should be allowed to critique and discuss the girls within the context of those roles. Unfortunately, it seems the girls have not really received decent training in homemaking skills. In addition, Jill, a purported MW student, seems to lack basic knowledge and common sense in the areas of labor, delivery and infant care.

Yes, all the deficiencies are certainly MORE of a reflection of JB and M's POOR parenting and training (their word) of their children, than on the part of the kids. They appear to have released some "duds"(Joy's word) on society. However, it is my belief that once you have your own family, you no longer get to blame your parents for your deficiencies, as it is time to carve your own path and form your OWN opinions.

Further, if the Duggars did not cram their "better than" methods down their customers' throats, or have a TV forum to push their beliefs, this would be moot. They choose the spotlight for easy cash. Actions have consequences.

I'm glad you acknowledged that the kids' lack of knowledge is mostly due to their parents at times. JB and Michelle really did a shitty job of preparing their kids for any kind of life - even Jill, who seemed to be the most maternal and loving of all the girls, is having a seemingly rough time trying to adjust to marriage and motherhood. What on earth does that say about her parents, who were responsible for preparing her for this stage of her life?!

Also, I do agree that Jill is at a point where she could have more knowledge if she wanted it. As others have pointed out, it would be easy enough for her to find a guide online for the proper positioning for a baby in that sling. I'm guessing its a combination of "someone (like her mom) I know did it this way and they can't be wrong" along with a bit of fear of the internet. She may have the freedom to browse the web, but that doesn't mean she isn't still scared to do so (beyond pinterest and social media).

[Buzzard]

Oh yay, they've posted a "sneak peek" of the delivery...

tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/getting-ready-for-baby-dilly/?mkcpgn=fbtlc1&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=19Kids&Counting

I cant play it because my internet is presently being stupid.

[Mama Mia]

I don't think I've ever seen a newborn without baby acne. It's super common.

I hate to think what would happen if she posted a close-up of Dilly with cradle cap.

Aw, that reminds me of when my first baby was born. I had a c- section and a rough recovery. I couldn't wait to show her off and was finally up to taking her out on a shopping trip in her stroller around the mall when she was 4 weeks old. Dressed her up in her pretty, frilly baby dress...it also happened to be when her baby acne was at its absolute worst, the cradle cap was AWFUL, and to top it off she had a complete diaper blow out as soon as we got there! :lol:

[VelociRapture]

Do you realize it's actually the norm , in almost every culture, throughout history, for women to have a great deal of help and very limited activity - other than caring for the baby - for aproximently 6 weeks following childbirth? For the most part, the only cultures, historically, that didn't have some sort of restricted activity and sheltering for the new mother and her infant are feudal/ slave / industrialized situations where the women - and her community- were given no choice. And leads to incredibly high maternal and child morbidity and mortality rates. The picture of a woman having her baby in the field and returning to work is a myth. An incredibly misogynist myth. It is woman honoring to provide the time and space and resources for a mother and baby to heal, regain strength, bond and establish a solid breastfeeding relationship. It also helps to protect both from illness and infection.

Birth doesn't need to be seen as a medical event to acknowledge it is a significant physical event that does take time to get the body back to its usual, healthy state.

I agree with you in a way. I don't think women should feel like they have to stay in bed for an extended period of time, especially if they have an easy recovery. . . but I also feel like sometimes women are pushed too hard to get back on their feet when they do need some extra time to bond and recover. I mostly blame the fact that the U.S. has pretty shitty laws in place for new parents.

Ideally, I'd like to see more support for new parents from their employers and society in general. Becoming a parent is stressful enough without adding in anxiety over your job security, worrying about finances, or stressing over the fact that everyone has an opinion on how you're doing everything wrong.

*Note, that last bit wasn't directed at anyone here. The Dillards are in the spotlight and because of that they are subject to reasonable criticism.

[twinmama]

In the US, if you spent 4 weeks in bed after giving birth, you'd have 2 weeks to be out and about with your baby before heading back to work. At least in lots of jobs! Also, WHO is there to help out for a month while mom is in bed?? None of my family lived in the same state as me when our kids were born, all my friends worked and my family who was out of state worked too. Granted, I had 9 weeks to recover from my section before I had babies to take care of, but I had to get my butt to the NICU for 12 hours a day everyday (definitely NOT 12 hours a day at the start, I'd've died of the stress).

I just don't know anyone who has had a baby recently who has family and friends who aren't working during the days to help out. Paid help, yeah, but most people just can't afford that and don't have villages of non-working adults to help so they can get a month of bed rest!

As for the J-Dizzies, I could not care less if their kid has acne, is covered in baby oil or whatever, or if they are out and about with him after a rough birth. The sling thing is legitimately dangerous and I'm totally fine with as many people commenting on that as possible in the hopes that others will realize it's dangerous and not replicate. Much like when people post photos of kids buckled into car seats incorrectly. It's not sanctimommying, it's safety. I'd want to know if I wasn't doing the car seat right, I don't care if it's embarassing to hear you're wrong. Makes me think of this blog post... mommyofanagel51313.wordpress.com/2014/11/23/why-didnt-anyone-tell-me-i-was-wrong/ (warning if you read the linked blog, it's about a child that died in a car accident, no graphic pics or anything, but incredibly sad and preventable)

[ClaraOswin]

The damage control this season is ridiculous. Every episode is an FU internet. "We love animals" :roll:

For all the kids the Duggars have, and all the work they have the older ones put into raising the younger ones, it seems like the older ones take away nothing! Jill has risked her child's life during birth and now with the sling. She didn't learn anything from Michelle. I seem to recall her requesting puffs on her baby registry. They probably will be stale for Izzy. Michelle isn't much better, doing things like feeding Jordyn cereal laying down. And Josh is sure one to talk like that about Derick! If I remember correctly, Anna didn't know how to install the car seat for Kynzie, but she was sure Josh, oldest of 17/18?, would. He had no clue. Can't wait to see Jessa and Ben in action.

To be fair, most people don't learn to how install or use a car seat until they have a baby on the way. I didn't get why Josh was making snarky comments on last night's episode about how Derick doesn't even know how to use a car seat. Why would he? He didn't have 1000 younger siblings to parent.

And let's be honest, Josh and Anna are about to have a 4th baby and I question their car seat safety. So really he's the last one to talk. Ugh.

[ClaraOswin]

Bed rest for a month after having a baby? Ridiculous. Yes, you should take it easy. Especially with a c-section. But being up and walking around is actually a good thing for healing.

[twinmama]

Indeed, we had NO idea how to safely and correctly install car seats before we had kids. We stuck them in the car (the seats, the babies were still in the hospital!!), went to the local fire station's car seat tech and he showed us how it should go. Then we got a second lesson in proper strapping from the NICU nurses when we were released. Very important life saving stuff, I don't know why everyone doesn't go to a car seat tech. It's completely free.

[ClaraOswin]

We installed ours at home but then when to the car seat check place to make sure everything was right. Better safe than sorry.

[Lucy H]

My DIL is from Hing Kong and when she gave birth last fall her mother took care of her from 30 days after the baby was born. She did all the housework and cooking, my DIL only job was to care for the baby. She also cooked her soecial foods that traditionally help with recovery from the birth and milk production. My DIL was not supposed to leave the house and there were other restrictions like no shower in thst didn't make sense to me. When the month was over the grandparents hosted a party in a restaurant for their families. The baby came and was seen but not touched except my immediate family.

My FIL says that modern women like here are not strict about the not leaving the house things and indeed she did go out and without the baby. She went out to lunch and did some Christmas shopping knowing that the baby was well cared for. Doing something for herself made her feel more human. Overall it was nice for her to be nurtured, to have time for the baby and to rest but it was not in bed. She was up and active.

My DIL's mom is currently back in Homg Kong doing the same for her second daughter.

[SassyPants]

Do you realize it's actually the norm , in almost every culture, throughout history, for women to have a great deal of help and very limited activity - other than caring for the baby - for aproximently 6 weeks following childbirth? For the most part, the only cultures, historically, that didn't have some sort of restricted activity and sheltering for the new mother and her infant are feudal/ slave / industrialized situations where the women - and her community- were given no choice. And leads to incredibly high maternal and child morbidity and mortality rates. The picture of a woman having her baby in the field and returning to work is a myth. An incredibly misogynist myth. It is woman honoring to provide the time and space and resources for a mother and baby to heal, regain strength, bond and establish a solid breastfeeding relationship. It also helps to protect both from illness and infection.

Birth doesn't need to be seen as a medical event to acknowledge it is a significant physical event that does take time to get the body back to its usual, healthy state.

Yep- I realize that in other cultures and systems things are vastly different. In the USA, this is not the case, and I doubt, based on economics, that it ever will be again. For better or for worse, our support systems are different. Personally, I did well with no help at all, beyond an evening and weekend available spouse.

This isn't about misogyny but rather a functional reality of life in our country.

My own daughter lives in So America where customs are very different. After her delivery last year, she was ordered to bed for a month and had endless people in to help. Yes, indeed. She was hospitalized 2Xs for a total of 1 month within the first 3 months post delivery. The first incident was d/t to strep pharyngitis, which developed into sepsis...and fungemia... and finally mastitis requiring breast surgery. She would have done much better with little help and many fewer germs.

Laying in bed does not make people healthy-

[withaj]

My DIL is from Hing Kong and when she gave birth last fall her mother took care of her from 30 days after the baby was born. She did all the housework and cooking, my DIL only job was to care for the baby. She also cooked her soecial foods that traditionally help with recovery from the birth and milk production. My DIL was not supposed to leave the house and there were other restrictions like no shower in thst didn't make sense to me. When the month was over the grandparents hosted a party in a restaurant for their families. The baby came and was seen but not touched except my immediate family.

My FIL says that modern women like here are not strict about the not leaving the house things and indeed she did go out and without the baby. She went out to lunch and did some Christmas shopping knowing that the baby was well cared for. Doing something for herself made her feel more human. Overall it was nice for her to be nurtured, to have time for the baby and to rest but it was not in bed. She was up and active.

My DIL's mom is currently back in Homg Kong doing the same for her second daughter.

This is very, very common in Taiwan -- it's called zuo yuezi, and there is a huge industry of wildly luxurious postpartum confinement centers that has sprung up in the past decade or two. Of course, traditionally it would be done at home, usually under the care of one's mother-in-law; if MIL is unavailable/incapacitated/unwilling (or from another culture), one's mother would be the second choice. Bringing in an unrelated specialty nurse for zuo yuezi is also done, but the centers are so popular and fashionable now that I'm sure that has declined somewhat.