Nazi child rearing- Pearl upon other terms (German)

[morri]

http://www1.wdr.de/fernsehen/informatio ... le100.html

This is a Video about the last daughter(now 72) of a (in)famous author who was a through and through nazi and who published the book the "german mothers first born" the ideas in there

"dont allow any emotional closeness otherwise you;ll get tyrants for kids"

(don't spoil your child cry it out in a different room, only feed a baby on a rigid schedule etc )still resonate strongly in the right wing conservative circles)and are quite similar to the pearls.The book was still printed in the 1980s.

It is in German but I can make a transcription of the subtitles if theres any interest.

[Palimpsest]

This is infamous Dr. Johanna Haarer's daughter, Gertrud in the video. She has an autobiography too about her relationship with her mother, I think.

Thanks for posting. My German is rudimentary but I think I can manage without a transcript.

[Trynn]

I can't, and I'd like to have as much translated as possible, if it's not too much trouble. I only know enough German to establish that I definitely didn't grow up speaking it

[Anny Nym]

@ morri, if you want, I can pitch in with helping to transcript -everyone a couple of minutes:)

The last 1980s book was called "Unsere kleinen Kinder"/ "Our little children" I think.

re Pearls: I have roamed out of curiousity through my grandmother´s Haarer books a couple of times, but never found a free copy of the Pearl´s baby-beating-book TTUAC. It would be interesting to see if there are some 1to1 similarities.

Although I doubt the Pearls really had to dig themselves into a german book from the 1940 to come up with their ..."child rearing style"(to put it elegantly). All the methods J. Haarer described were neither invented by her nor is it a specific "german thing", but more a issue of pedagogy vs. power.

Curious fact: did you know she also published a series of knitting pattern books?

[morri]

knitting pattern. I hope she was better at knitting than child rearing. (Actually I saw the video wasnt that long but I can still translate it )

[morri]

raising kids the strict way

one mother , her ideals for raising children, and the aftermath for her daughter.



Let the baby cry it out
let it get used to play by itsself
speaking? But only if it was asked
Take the child on ones arm? Are you mad?

That are child rearing methods by the nazis
In 1934 the pulmonologist Dr.Johanna Haarer
wrote a book on child rearing
The German mother and her first child
The title was changd when the Nazi era ended
but not the contents
It was published until the 1980s
The ideas however lived a lot longer
because they were just passed on.
we have been talking about it beofre at frau tv(woman tv)
and were impressed how you found yourself to be a victim of this child rearing style.
She just like you was suffering from it, until today.
Thats why gertrud Haarer recognises herself in your (e)mails
As we have read the mails to her.


" i always felt unloved as a child
I was afraid of my mother
She told me I wasnt a snuggly child(a child that liked a snuggle)
Until her death 4 years ago I had big problems
to give my mother a hug or touch her at all.
All my life I had the feeling
that i wasnt of any value or doing any thing right.
until today i cant
feel a hint of affection towards my parents.

Crazy,
It is crazy
I worried about that all my life


what gertrud haarer is telling is still in the minds of millions of Germans today
The child rearing guide by her mother Johanna Haarer
that was founded on national socialiatic ideas
They were printed until 1987
Child raisin without love, closeness, but strict rules
feeding , sleeping, put down,leaving alone
The child as enemy and tyrann

Gertrud Haarer is 72 today
She is talking about her mother

The mother was the highest authority
The mother ruled everything
She did everything
You had to, as I am writing in my book
sit at your desk
You had to make an appointment
Because she didnt have time

One had to make an appointment an you had to sit there
that was for me, Hitlers desk
There someone is sitting and says..
It wasnt a mother in the sense of snuggling or whatever
You didnt have it


The mother johanna haarer
She was representing this rearing style in her guide
"The German mother and her first child"
Through and through national socialist
Raising a master race
Obedient , hard, healthy
Johanna Haarer wasnt in the education field she was a pulmonologist
She had 5 children
The youngest is Gertrud haarer

She had the absolute power
I have always been thinking what would have been
if my father had been alive still
how, these, I dont know
My mother was a power person always
You had to do this, you had to do that
Absolute

As one of 4 siblings
She was the only one who confronted the nazi history of her mother
born in 1942 she grew up in munich, germany
But a child hood wasnt something she had

I can remember as far as from Volkschule(primary school age about 6 yo)
And nothing before
It must have been horrible
that I must have suppressed it
usually kids remember from age 3
if not even from age 2
it is totally dead with me.
Dead is the right expression.


Gertrud Haarer was a shy child
she grows up cluelessly
No word is said at home
No word is said about the fervent supporter of national socialism
Johanna haarer
Her Ideals of hardness and her lack of love
Slowly however Getrud is tracing her mother

i was the one who was in the house
The house was reconstrcuted , a flat and so on
I was the one in the house with the task
you are going to care for me someday
Nursing home was out of question
and I said ok Ill do it.

and there slowly, her facade came crumbling down totally
There was no power anymore
I realised that theres the rub
She was really doing badly
I noticed there that
she was addicted to alcohol and presciption drugs
I started pondering , there is something
She never came to terms with it
She defended it

In the maternal home in schwaebing
a hard time is beginning for Gertrud Haarer
She understands that her mother is pushing the past away
She her daughter can't live with it
What follows is fights , fits of rage, arguments

I went mad
I said, you know what happened there
and still you say
It was good.


What exactly were you accusing her off?


As a doctor: Euthanasia
What would you had been saying if one of us were gassed?
She had a break down instantly
and then 6 mio jews
then she said: it s been 20 years
back then, you've got to find some closure
I have said: You can never find some closure over that


Gertrud haarer is about 50 years old when she
is caught up with her child hood and lack of love
she suffers from depression
gets treated by therapist and psychiatrists
until today shes still taking drugs , lives with it
at some point she is able to
write up the history of her mother
She has become strong


I have to say one thing to my siblings
other than that i dont want to say anything to them
We all have psychological trauma All of us
some more some less
I have always though, I am not going to be like you
I am going to do it completely differently
Of course i didnt manage that.

There was a burden still after the death of her mother
I nearly had to get rid of it physically
the house in schwaebingen
she had to promise to never sell it
a heritage she didnt want to live with


I lay in bed at night
and the house was sitting on top of me
I thought I cant do that I have to move away from there
My partner had finished at the theatre
i said
you know what, lets make a move, lets go to italy
and thats what we did in an instant

[MamaJunebug]

http://www1.wdr.de/fernsehen/information/frautv/sendungen/erziehungsideale100.html

This is a Video about the last daughter(now 72) of a (in)famous author who was a through and through nazi and who published the book the "german mothers first born" the ideas in there

"dont allow any emotional closeness otherwise you;ll get tyrants for kids"

(don't spoil your child cry it out in a different room, only feed a baby on a rigid schedule etc )still resonate strongly in the right wing conservative circles)and are quite similar to the pearls.The book was still printed in the 1980s.

It is in German but I can make a transcription of the subtitles if theres any interest.

I would be very interested! Danke schoen!!

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'd love a translation too.

[morri]

it is in the spoiler post underneath is the whole subtitles line by line

[morri]

theres some report below the video with some examples from the book. i could translate them too if you like if you prefer it to google translate

[BrownieMomma]

Morri, thank you so much, I read the material under your spoiler but didn't quote it because idk how it works exactly and didn't want to mess it up.

One thing that jumped right out at me was the thinking that the child is the enemy. I felt this so often when confronted with Ezzo at SBC and Pearls at a non-denom church. I never understood that mindset but then again I never gave birth to serve a greater good, like a political regime or God's Army.

[morri]

theres a womens board i am on and it also has a moms section, and one thread is "irritating advice for you" and it is sad how often there is advice against "spoiling"the child by inlaws grand parents and the like for picking up a crying baby tending to its needs of closeness to its parents. The daughter above , it was wrutten under the video remained without any children as she didnt think she could be a loving mother .

[Anny Nym]

On english baby boards, I often encountered the "Ferber method", or CIO - it´s basically "letting the baby cry itself to sleep without picking it up". Ferber is the current director of The Center for Pediatric Sleep Disorders at the Children's Hospital Boston, according to wikipedia.

It may sound harsh, but it is probably better the daughter refrained from having children. She seems to have a whole cluster of issues.

editedtoadd: her knitting pattern books are nothing overwhelming either...

[morri]

she didnt have any kids either as she said she didnt think she could be a loving mother. CIO is well known like jedes kind kann schlafen lernen although they are unlike popular opinion for hard sleepers over age 1 with 1 minute crying per years and not. crying how ever long at new born age. (i am not into either cc or cio obviously )

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thanks for the translation.

I've had that same thought myself about the Pearls. There was one article I remember that went on and on about the value of instant, first-time obedience. My first thought was that training kids to follow orders without question will produce an Eichmann (notorious Nazi whose defense at his trial was basically that he was "just following orders"). I don't view obedience as a moral value.

I didn't use the Ferber method, but Dr. Ferber himself has clarified that he didn't intend for his method to be all about crying it out for every sleep problem. http://www.parenting.com/article/the-tr ... erberizing I also find that there is a difference between taking a week to "sleep train" with a 6 mo. old where you gradually allow a child to cry in order to allow them to self-soothe and fall asleep when you are sure that nothing else is wrong, and making it a regular habit to ignore a child's cries.

I always like to point to the philosophy of Dr. Janusz Korczuk, because he had the exact opposite approach and took the rights of children very seriously. He and the children under his care were murdered by the Nazis, but his writings (and some of the older orphans who left the orphanage before the ghetto was liquidated) live on. One of the amazing things about his is that he, as a very well known figure, had the opportunity to save his life, but instead chose to remain with his orphans and literally follow them into the gas chamber.

http://korczak.com/Biography/kap-1who.htm

[Anny Nym]

I never had the dire need for any kind of CIO book myself, but it seems CIO/"Ferberizing" babies well under 1 year, even under 6 months is actually a widespread thing :shrug:

[BrownieMomma]

Thanks for the translation.

I've had that same thought myself about the Pearls. There was one article I remember that went on and on about the value of instant, first-time obedience. My first thought was that training kids to follow orders without question will produce an Eichmann (notorious Nazi whose defense at his trial was basically that he was "just following orders"). I don't view obedience as a moral value.

I didn't use the Ferber method, but Dr. Ferber himself has clarified that he didn't intend for his method to be all about crying it out for every sleep problem. http://www.parenting.com/article/the-tr ... erberizing I also find that there is a difference between taking a week to "sleep train" with a 6 mo. old where you gradually allow a child to cry in order to allow them to self-soothe and fall asleep when you are sure that nothing else is wrong, and making it a regular habit to ignore a child's cries.

I always like to point to the philosophy of Dr. Janusz Korczuk, because he had the exact opposite approach and took the rights of children very seriously. He and the children under his care were murdered by the Nazis, but his writings (and some of the older orphans who left the orphanage before the ghetto was liquidated) live on. One of the amazing things about his is that he, as a very well known figure, had the opportunity to save his life, but instead chose to remain with his orphans and literally follow them into the gas chamber.

http://korczak.com/Biography/kap-1who.htm

I have never heard of him but what a wonderful thing to discover him! Thank you so much!

[MamaJunebug]

Am I the only one for whom the spoiler won't open on an iPhone? My laptop is cranky and I'm starting to plan a visit to a friend's place just based on his computer capabilities!!!! LOL

[lawlifelgbt]

This was super interesting!

I grew up speaking German, but because of recent events, I don't really have a parent to speak it to me any more (I haven't been living at home for years, am not taking language classes any more). My understanding is still really good (enough to read this article, Der Spiegel, etc.), but I have no one to speak it with and don't know good practice resources.

I have one friend from college who was in my major, spent a semester abroad, and continues to consume German media and teach his children. However, we don't see each other in person much, because of schedules, life, and my wife thinking he's a bit strange (he practices polygamy). Other than that, I don't have any person to use it with. I know I'm losing the knowledge and it's driving me nuts!

[Mrs Ms]

This was super interesting!

I grew up speaking German, but because of recent events, I don't really have a parent to speak it to me any more (I haven't been living at home for years, am not taking language classes any more). My understanding is still really good (enough to read this article, Der Spiegel, etc.), but I have no one to speak it with and don't know good practice resources.

I have one friend from college who was in my major, spent a semester abroad, and continues to consume German media and teach his children. However, we don't see each other in person much, because of schedules, life, and my wife thinking he's a bit strange (he practices polygamy). Other than that, I don't have any person to use it with. I know I'm losing the knowledge and it's driving me nuts!

Can you get DWTV? (Deutsche Welle TV) half their programming is in english and the other half german (at least the last time I watched)

If it doesn't get broadcast in the US, you should still be able to watch it online. When we still had a TV and I was off work for far too long, I LOVED keeping up my german by watching it.....

[morri]

talk with some german native speaker on the board. lets make a snark in other language sub forum xD

[Anny Nym]

his was super interesting!

I grew up speaking German, but because of recent events, I don't really have a parent to speak it to me any more (I haven't been living at home for years, am not taking language classes any more). My understanding is still really good (enough to read this article, Der Spiegel, etc.), but I have no one to speak it with and don't know good practice resources.

I have one friend from college who was in my major, spent a semester abroad, and continues to consume German media and teach his children. However, we don't see each other in person much, because of schedules, life, and my wife thinking he's a bit strange (he practices polygamy). Other than that, I don't have any person to use it with. I know I'm losing the knowledge and it's driving me nuts!

Yes, it was - thank you @morri for transcripting it in english.

lawlifelgbt, for getting used for vocalisation and pronounciation, maybe try audiobooks! It´s really fun and you can listen to them wherever you want:

Here are some sources for FREE and legal download-able audiobooks in german (they also have other language options)

https://librivox.org/search?primary_key ... et_results

<-Librivox is the biggest free resource on the net.

(they have all kind of genres like classics, crime, children´s classics, adventure, travel....) If you tell me your favorite genre, I could post some links if you want.

http://www.vorleser.net/

http://www.gratis-hoerspiele.de/

http://www.freiszene.de/hoerspiele/

For free german e-books (PC/android/iOs/kindle....), I´d recommend :

https://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/DE_Hauptseite

Also, Projekt Gutenberg has a astonishing variety of free ebooks in various languages besides german:)

https://www.gutenberg.org/browse/languages/de

[MamaJunebug]

Thank you so much! I've gotten to a desktop to read it.

I have to say that parts of it sadly remind me of my dear departed dad's upbringing. He told us once, in his 70s, that his mother never hugged him. She was of German descent, I don't know how many generations away from Europe. My grandfather (dad's dad) was second-generation of his family to be born here. Grandpa's grandpa was a good citizen of some renown but not necessarily known for being a warm guy family-wise. He loved them, I'm sure, but demonstrations of affection? I don't get the feeling they were frequent nor large in nature.

By no means am I ragging on Germans nor German culture overall as bad guys. It's just how some folks are wired, to be more reserved. I will heartily rag on the Pearls and their co-conspirators, who prey on people with backgrounds of dysfunction and chaos. "Raise your kids our way," the Pearls say, "and all will be peaceful and orderly and great."

Raising kids at any time, in any culture, is not easy. It helps so much if there is support for the parents, in the form of genuinely caring relatives and friends who want everybody to be strong and happy. Sadly that often isn't the situation, and vile things like Pearls and Nazis are quick to fill the vacuum.