Pence signs 'religious freedom' bill Wal Mart reacts - MERGE

[Becket70]

A similar bill is going on in Arkansas...just awaiting the governor's signature. Have I missed it or have the Duggar's been silent on this issue? They spoke out so much about the bill involving transgender people but I have heard nothing regarding their pleading with the Gov to sign this bill. Walmart has come out against the bill and since Jill's husband works for Walmart. this could be awkward.

[lawlifelgbt]

Ugh, this bill will definitely be for antigay discrimination. Story time!

Mrs. lawlife (then fiancee) lived in northwest Indiana for a while, and I would often stay with her for up to six weeks at a time (spring/winter breaks and summer from school). It was a nice enough town, very walkable, kind of bland, but there were some cute shops and she had a nice apartment. But a small-ish town!

Anyway, one time I was there, we had wanted to go to a nice restaurant and were both dressed up (she had a dress, and I had a white dress shirt and tie and jacket- I know, not typical female clothes). But the car was having trouble, so we went to Applebee's instead. Still, we'd have a nice time, I thought.

So we sat at a high-top by the bar and fiancee accidentally drops her menu, and has to get pretty close to the next table to get it back. This made them notice us, and the next table was these two middleaged dudes in full Hoosier gear- you know, sports team jackets and caps, etc. They are really drinking a lot of beer. They both shoot us this weird look, but we ignore it and sit there talking like normal, something about our future including wedding plans. Then I noticed that every time I looked up at all, I'd get these horrible looks from both of them. Like, not resting bitch face or bad day. Full-on glaring! Fiancee notices too, and texts me "The sports bros really disapprove of us!"

I text back, "I know, they have been glaring at your back the entire time." We decide to ignore them. I am talking about a possible wedding registry after a bit (and glaring right back at the dudes while doing so). Fiancee whispers that I should talk louder, and takes my hand across the table. So at that point, we were deliberately messing with them.

The dudes left half-full beers in their haste to leave.

That's what this bill is. It would make bigots like that have their right to be "comfortable" (read: go unchallenged all the time), trump our right to exist/go out in public. I shouldn't have to say this, but we were not kissing or even touching- just holding hands a bit.

We went out to other places too, which were generally good- some young servers would even congratulate us! But a few times, I noticed we'd end up sitting in the very back corner of places, or if a manager was going around talking to people, we'd get passed over. It was weird, and happened enough that I'm not sure it was coincidence. We should be able to sit where we want (subject of course to not overloading some poor server), and get the same service.

[PennySycamore]

lawlifelgbt,

I am so sorry that you and your wife had to go through that.

That reminds me of Panti Bliss's powerful TED talk about how he'd never held hands with a boyfriend in public and he's 45 years old. Here's an article on the talk with the video:

http://www.thejournal.ie/panti-ted-talk ... 8-Jan2015/

[ViolaSebastian]

Apparently Angie's List has cancelled their plans to build a campus in Indiana as well:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/28/news/co ... imination/

[Delilah]

I know that many FJ'ers have legal knowledge and don't need clarification on this law, but I needed help understanding all the ramifications. I found this article (not broken because it's a news source)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /70633532/

I was puzzled why a religious freedom law was necessary in the first place. The article says it's designed to protect the little guys from being accidentally stepped on by the state (my summary on that). For example the Amish in Minnesota would have been required to modify their buggies with bright florescent signs to make the roads safer. No one wanted to oppress the unoffensive Amish, and the RFRA law gave the state a way to seek out a compromise. The problem was skirted by having them use lanterns and reflective tape. Problem solved and everyone was happy.

Chaos can come when a state has a a mismash of state and local nondiscrimination laws and RFRA laws. Indiana does not have a statewide nondiscrimination law although Indianapolis does have one. Since there is a gap in LGBT protection in Indiana and a resistance to establishing establishing that protection, a statewide RFRA looks like an attempt to limit gay rights.

As it stands now, conflicts will have to be decided on a case by case basis because everyone disagrees on what this law means constitutionally.

Like I said above, I know many people don't need the legal tutorial, but it helped me understand, so I thought I'd share the article.

[Rainytown]

Dear Duggar Family,

I'm sure you're all on Baby Watch 2015 at the moment. You might also be planning on announcing yet another pregnancy as part of the Benessa wedding hoopla broadcast in just a few short hours. (Lucky us, huh? Maybe we'll be treated to more toilet births next season!) I'm sure, however, there's raucous celebration tonight at the Tinker Toy House. This has nothing to do with Jessa Blessa's wedding, and everything to do with yet another blessed event.

Governor Asa Hutchinson has managed to succeed in yet another effort to discriminate against the LGBT people in your state. Even better, there's legislation pending. http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/31/politics/ ... lgbt-bill/ All it needs to become law is the governor's signature. It's enough to make you wish you drank alcohol and danced, isn't it? SOMEONE should be throwing some kind of wing-ding to celebrate! Maybe there's still some rock-hard generic vanilla "ice cream" and root beer in the freezer at the Tinker Toy House. After all, none of you are happy unless you're discriminating against or oppressing anyone who's not rich, white, straight, Republican, or fundamentalist Christian, are you?

I know you don't want to celebrate quietly. After all, the Lord loves a joyful noise, doesn't He? Of course you'll want to speak out on this momentous occasion, and I encourage it. Run, RUN to the nearest microphone or media outlet. It's hard to believe Josh hasn't done so already. (Isn't that his job?) Please. Tell all of America how much you support the legislation in both Indiana and Arkansas. Call up People magazine and tell them to bump Jill off the cover this week; this is more important. Surely all America needs to hear the Word of the LORD from the Duggar family. Again! Tell the entire country how you have prayed for this to happen. If you don't think your message got out the first time, DO IT AGAIN. Keep doing it until the entire country embraces your 1950's rhetoric, or until TLC and Discovery Networks grow a set of balls and FIRES YOU for your homophobia and bigotry, once and for all.

This is your big chance to go out with a bang. Don't disappoint me!

Love and kisses,

Rainytown

[saguarosally]

I'm sure they know what happened with the Duck Dynasty people after commenting on homosexuality. They all like the TLC money enough to keep relatively quiet on that one topic.

[DGayle]

I'd love to see them be more blatant about their beliefs, and supporting this shit openly, instead of a on the quiet side, so their fans can't deny any longer who the Duggars really are.

[PennySycamore]

Bravo, Rainytown!!

[antwan]

I continue to be apalled at the irony, -that all peoples are allowed to demand their rights, but Christians are bashed for holding to their own religious convictions. Live and let live. Extend the very same tolerance that you expect. But consider where your own tolerance ends, and where, in its place, you demand validation. I'm not supporting the Duggars, here, but rather the religious freedoms of ALL. Christians, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, etc,. -we are entitled (yes, that very same entitled) to expect tolerance as well. Wow,...sad.

[Becket70]

Oh the irony of a Duggar son-in-law working for Walmart, which came out against the bill. Maybe that is why they have been relatively quiet. It's awkward.

As for the law...it's Arkansas. Passage was a given. My question now is what will they demand next? They never stop making demands. If the Supremes rule in favor of gay marriage, I expect heads to explode (visualize the scene in Kingsman with the exploding heads) and all manner of evil machinations will assure that nobody gets "gay-married" in Arkansas.

What I find interesting is that lawmakers in North Carolina are coming up with the same type of legislation but the Republican governor stated that he sees no point to it. Sanity may prevail. It could happen...

[SassyPants]

Oh the irony of a Duggar son-in-law working for Walmart, which came out against the bill. Maybe that is why they have been relatively quiet. It's awkward.

As for the law...it's Arkansas. Passage was a given. My question now is what will they demand next? They never stop making demands. If the Supremes rule in favor of gay marriage, I expect heads to explode (visualize the scene in Kingsman with the exploding heads) and all manner of evil machinations will assure that nobody gets "gay-married" in Arkansas.

What I find interesting is that lawmakers in North Carolina are coming up with the same type of legislation but the Republican governor stated that he sees no point to it. Sanity may prevail. It could happen...

Of cour$e WM did- and Arkansas will learn, just as IN has, that money talks and bullshit walks.

WM was the biggest target in AR and one of the biggest potenial lo$ers.

M Pence backed down and so will this fool.

Religious convictions do not trump civil rights.

[SassyPants]

I continue to be apalled at the irony, -that all peoples are allowed to demand their rights, but Christians are bashed for holding to their own religious convictions. Live and let live. Extend the very same tolerance that you expect. But consider where your own tolerance ends, and where, in its place, you demand validation. I'm not supporting the Duggars, here, but rather the religious freedoms of ALL. Christians, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, etc,. -we are entitled (yes, that very same entitled) to expect tolerance as well. Wow,...sad.

Many states have BOTH religious freedoms and anti- discrimination language for protected groups within their language. States like IN only had the religious freedoms portion and from what I'm seeing this is what AR is aiming for...Are you following what has happened in IN in the last week? You should. This has backfired in a major way and now the Gov has stated that the state will not go forward within the planned legislation.

[Becket70]

Of cour$e WM did- and Arkansas will learn, just as IN has, that money talks and bullshit walks.

WM was the biggest target in AR and one of the biggest potenial lo$ers.

M Pence backed down and so will this fool.

I took a look at the Charolotte Observer site to see if I could glean any more info on how North Carolina is handling this. The governor has made it clear he has no intention of signing a Religious Freedom bill. And the legislators are falling all over themselves to get out of the corner they backed themselves into. The Speaker said that they have to be cognizant of how such a law will affect North Carolina's brand. I believe Georgia has already decided to table a similar law. I wish I could be as confident as you that the Gov of Arkansas will veto the bill. I hope so but...it's Arkansas.

What also surprised me was that there is legislation in NC giving magistrates an op-out regarding performing same-sex marriage. The governor, a Republican, said that will not fly. They will perform gay marriages as they took an oath to uphold the NC constitution. This is a major shift in thinking for NC. I think the Indiana fiasco was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back and people are saying "no more" to this kind of legislation.

Religious convictions do not trump civil rights.

[Becket70]

SassyPants: Sorry. Somehow I added my comment directly to your post....it's late and I am half-asleep so I think I may have forgotten to use "quote" in my response. Anyway, I am so sorry. I think we are literally "on the same page" regarding this topic, though. We will see what this formerly moderate Republican governor decides to do.

[KittenMitten]

I continue to be apalled at the irony, -that all peoples are allowed to demand their rights, but Christians are bashed for holding to their own religious convictions. Live and let live. Extend the very same tolerance that you expect. But consider where your own tolerance ends, and where, in its place, you demand validation. I'm not supporting the Duggars, here, but rather the religious freedoms of ALL. Christians, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, etc,. -we are entitled (yes, that very same entitled) to expect tolerance as well. Wow,...sad.

Hi antwan. I am sorry. I have had an endless and difficult work day and am having difficulty processing your post. I am sure the difficulty is at my end and I misinterpreted what you have written.

In this post, I am wondering what Christians are being bashed for their beliefs. You mention that you are a supporter of all religious freedom. I, also am a supporter of freedoms for all Americans (well all people that live on planet earth, but that is not the discussion). I am just having a hard time understanding what Christian rights are being bashed by the new law to be signed into law today in Arkansas. Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but it seems as if this law allows businesses to discriminate against people for their religious beliefs. Please tell me that I musunderstood your post.

[Rainytown]

I continue to be apalled at the irony, -that all peoples are allowed to demand their rights, but Christians are bashed for holding to their own religious convictions.

What "religious convictions" are those? The continuing prejudice against and persecution of LGBT people? That isn't a "religious conviction". That's bigotry in its purest form. And it has nothing to do with "religion".

The United States stopped embracing "separate but equal" 50 years ago. The church may want to make a note of that.

[16strong]

So, Derick's place of work (Wal-mart) has come out against the Religious Freedom Restoration Act passed in Arkansas, declaring it to be an undermining of "the spirit of inclusion" in the state and "does not reflect the values we proudly uphold."

http://news.yahoo.com/u-corporations-pr ... nance.html

[Howl]

A similar bill is going on in Arkansas...just awaiting the governor's signature. Have I missed it or have the Duggar's been silent on this issue? They spoke out so much about the bill involving transgender people but I have heard nothing regarding their pleading with the Gov to sign this bill. Walmart has come out against the bill and since Jill's husband works for Walmart. this could be awkward.

Screaming, huge headline on HuffPo YESTERDAY (March 31), so not April Fools

WALMART: VETO NOW!

but then it links to this weenie little article:

Walmart Asks Arkansas Governor To Veto Religion Freedom Bill

The chief executive officer of Wal-Mart Stores Inc on Tuesday asked the governor of Arkansas to veto a religious freedom measure, saying the bill approved by lawmakers earlier in the day undermines "the spirit of inclusion" in the state.

Doug McMillon, the chief executive officer for the company based in Arkansas, in a tweet requested that Governor Asa Hutchinson, a Republican, veto the legislation.

Indiana is taking the heat with massive negative publicity. Arkansas is a huge tourism state and wouldn't want that kind of negative publicity.

However, call me cynical, but I don't think Indiana would have gotten much coverage (if any) under "normal"* circumstances, but the national college basketball Final Four playoffs are happening in Indiana, and networks have a chance to simultaneously cover sports and and indulge in moral outrage. One news commentator even said something like, "How can these boys concentrate on the game with all this going on?"

OK, by "normal" I mean normal for the 24-hour news cycle.

As the stepparent of a gay kid, I look at media coverage from another angle, and see this type of intense media coverage and the adverse fall out for Indiana along with it as a good thing, because for many Americans, I think the constant exposure on TV helps them normalize the importance of gay rights and it is modeling that moral outrage in the face of discrimination IS the appropriate response.

A Texas legislator has proposed one of these laws, but it is so broad and poorly written that I don't think it is going anywhere, but this is Texas, so you never know.

Anyway, I'd wish the the religious persecution industry would get some direct negative fallout over this. I wish news commentators would ask, Who the hell would sponsor and push these kinds of bills? Who is behind the curtain?

Edited to note that I did some minor google fu and came up with some deep background, which did NOT take me where I thought it would, which is back, back, back to Native American use of peyote for ritual (religious) purposes. This article from NBC news relative to last year's similar law in Arizona gives some interesting background on the history of these kinds of laws:

Link not broken because NBC news:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/arizon ... ory-n38611

This bill was passed by the Arizona legislature but was vetoed by Governor Jan Brewer in Feb 2014.

[jarona]

I'll bet Jim Bob is shitting in his tidy whiteys right now. My guess is that JB will try to get Derrick to leave Wal-Mart and have him *work* for the Duggashian empire. I'm pretty sure Derrick has enough of a brain to stay at Walmart. Maybe this will be the end of the marriage :o :D Derrick lost big points with me after that cat incident, but I do believe down the line, he will wake up and find someone who isn't as needy or dopey as Jill--and find someone who actually knows how to cook rice!

[jarona]

What I find really ironic is that this country of ours was founded by rebels who escaped England because their beliefs and ideologies were different from their mother country. It saddens me to no end that our country is regressing. We are going back to McCarthyism and witch hunts. Freakin' leave the people who are same-sex drawn, were born into different bodies than they belongs in. We are ALL equal. I refuse to label anyone. There should be no "GAY" marriage. It should just be "MARRIAGE". Transgenders? No--they are just humans! Don't even get me started on this............................

[VelociRapture]

I'll bet Jim Bob is shitting in his tidy whiteys right now. My guess is that JB will try to get Derrick to leave Wal-Mart and have him *work* for the Duggashian empire. I'm pretty sure Derrick has enough of a brain to stay at Walmart. Maybe this will be the end of the marriage :o :D Derrick lost big points with me after that cat incident, but I do believe down the line, he will wake up and find someone who isn't as needy or dopey as Jill--and find someone who actually knows how to cook rice!

While I agree that they likely aren't happy about the announcement, I highly doubt that this would lead to divorce for them. They seem to share the same core beliefs and religion is important to both of them. Those things are far more important than knowing how to cook three servings of rice - cooking can be learned, but changing your core beliefs is much more difficult. Not to mention they are about to become first-time parents and neither of them seems to believe in divorce.

[gilora]

Even worse, will they have to (shudder) stop shopping at Wal Mart? :D

[HarleyQuinn]

I can see JB trying to get DerickDillard to quit and become the Duggar accountant or something.

[Nic]

I can see JB trying to get DerickDillard to quit and become the Duggar accountant or something.

Yeah maybe he could be the one that handouts Ben's weekly allowance.