Move over Kelly, Cheryl REALLY knows how to save $$$$

[SquirrelySquirrel]

Garlic can be a lifesaver as well. Once when I let a tooth get badly infected, fresh garlic got me through the night until I could get in to the dentist. I chomped down a few cloves of it, and then reeked of it for days (it was literally coming out of my pores :lol:)! But it was so worth it.

I'm all for natural remedies used with common sense, but the second I read or hear the words "essential oils" nowadays my eyes roll so hard. Not because I think they're completely useless, but because I'm sick of people peddling them as the cure to everything.

[countressrascal]

Gargling with warm salt water is a great way to take care of a sore throat also for temporary relief for mouth inflection. When I had a root canal my dentist suggested that I rinse my mouth with warm salt water and cloves, it worked I did not get a secondary inflection and no pain. Regarding about her children teeth-there is a lot of information out there that strength of teeth and being prone to dental issues is all heredity, so she lucked out on that front.

[August]

Yes, strep can be very dangerous if left untreated. I only had it once as a kid, but I've gotten it 3 times in the last year. I can't have penicillin, so I have to use a very high powered antibiotic every time. Makes me a nervous wreck, but it's better than the alternative.

You have to be very careful with a UTI too. My grandmother died from complications resulting from a UTI.

Group A strep (strep throat) is not partcularly dangerous for healthy people. Immediate and universal antibiotics is not the standard of care everywhere.

From the European CDC

Most sore throats are not due to infection with streptococci. Even without treatment, streptococcal pharyngitis will usually get better by itself in 4–10 days. The symptoms can be treated using medicines like paracetamol, resting and having plenty of fluids. Antibiotics (usually penicillin) might be used but will have little effect on symptoms and duration of illness in uncomplicated cases. They may be used in more severe cases, where complications might occur.

Even in the US, it's not recommended for adults and kids under 3.

 2. Routine use of back-up throat cultures for those with a negative RADT is not necessary for adults in usual circumstances, because of the low incidence of GAS pharyngitis in adults and because the risk of subsequent acute rheumatic fever is generally exceptionally low in adults with acute pharyngitis (strong, moderate). Physicians who wish to ensure they are achieving maximal sensitivity in diagnosis may continue to use conventional throat culture or to back up negative RADTs with a culture.

 5. Diagnostic studies for GAS pharyngitis are not indicated for children <3 years old because acute rheumatic fever is rare in children <3 years old and the incidence of streptococcal pharyngitis and the classic presentation of streptococcal pharyngitis are uncommon in this age group. Selected children <3 years old who have other risk factors, such as an older sibling with GAS infection, may be considered for testing (strong, moderate).

the predomi- nant rationale for treatment of this self-limited illness is to prevent suppurative and nonsuppurative complications [53]. In particular, treatment within 9 days of the onset of illness is effective in preventing acute rheumatic fever (ARF) [53]. However, treatment of pharyngitis does not affect the develop- ment of poststreptococcal glomerulonephritis [54].

http://www.epmonthly.com/departments/co ... than-good/

In fact, rheumatic fever and kidney involvement are very rare outside of (IIRC) India, parts of Africa and parts of Australia.

[Maggie Mae]

My great? grandmother (my grandfather's mother) died of strep throat when grandpa was a child. I don't mess around with strep. Even though I find the process of making an appointment, waiting a day, waiting in the lobby for hours with other sick people because the doctor is always running late so the doctor can tell me to get lab work, going to the lab, going back to get the prescription, taking the prescription to the pharmacist, waiting some more and paying fees every step of the way to be dehumanizing and demeaning. I know it's strep. I know the symptoms. I'm not a doctor, but I'm also not stupid. It tastes and feels like strep. I know there are people who are so out of touch with their bodies they manage to be pregnant without noticing a change, but I'm not one of them. I just hate that we can't have the medicine we need without jumping through a thousand hoops.

[SunnyAndrsn]

"Oils and herbs have places they can be useful"

Oh yes, my reply was too vague. Honey for a sore throat from allergies= good idea. Honey to cure strep= bad idea. Aromatherapy is you are feeling sad= good idea. Aromatherapy by itself if you are clinically depressed= bad idea

Young Living and Doterra make false claims about oils curing and preventing diseases.

Just an FYI...wound care practices use honey impregnated dressings for some types of wounds. I thought it was pretty cool the first time I saw the dressings. Google Medihoney and you'll find lots of information.

It's not the same of course, as slapping a spoonful of honey from the cupboard on a sore and covering it with a bandaid.

[Antimony]

Just an FYI...wound care practices use honey impregnated dressings for some types of wounds. I thought it was pretty cool the first time I saw the dressings. Google Medihoney and you'll find lots of information.

It's not the same of course, as slapping a spoonful of honey from the cupboard on a sore and covering it with a bandaid.

Especially if it's the darn fake plastic bear honey ugh.

My roommate has killer allergies but thinks my honey advice is total nonsense. I doubt it'd cure him, obviously, but he has a cocktail of 3 different meds for it. I buy local so the pollen profile should be similar and you'd think it be worth it to drink some tea and give it a shot but he won't. :(

[DGayle]

That's why my doctors usually do the WASP. Wait And See, then Prescription. They'll write the script to use if an infection doesn't start to clear up. Just because some strep infections need antibiotics doesn't mean that every single case does. Prescribing antibiotics for every single case of any given infections weakens their ability in the long run. If waiting a couple days won't hurt you (might not be so comfortable, but some discomfort won't kill you), then why not see what your body can do on its own instead of training your body that meds are on the way as soon as you get a sniffle?

Someone called this a public health issue. A bigger public health issue is people getting fecal matter on their hands, then not washing. A bigger risk than that is that it's legal to have a few drinks and then drive impaired. Someone getting strep and going out doesn't even ping my concern-dar. When someone in my family gets sick, if there are strep symptoms, into the doc for a quick culture and a WASP. Until there's a clean bill of health, all kisses and food- and drink-sharing stops to limit the risk of transmission. This is much better for us, AND FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, than continuing to contribute to making antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

[August]

My great? grandmother (my grandfather's mother) died of strep throat when grandpa was a child. I don't mess around with strep. Even though I find the process of making an appointment, waiting a day, waiting in the lobby for hours with other sick people because the doctor is always running late so the doctor can tell me to get lab work, going to the lab, going back to get the prescription, taking the prescription to the pharmacist, waiting some more and paying fees every step of the way to be dehumanizing and demeaning. I know it's strep. I know the symptoms. I'm not a doctor, but I'm also not stupid. It tastes and feels like strep. I know there are people who are so out of touch with their bodies they manage to be pregnant without noticing a change, but I'm not one of them. I just hate that we can't have the medicine we need without jumping through a thousand hoops.

Do they really give your abx every time? As an adult your odds of rheumatic fever are vanishingly small, and scarlet fever just went away of its own accord earlier this century. Do they know it's just anxiety that gets youinthere, or dothey think you're in serious pain? I've had a doc recommend a really painful surgery because he forgot to ask me if the condition had any impact on my life. :pull-hair:

Really, next time mention to your doc that you're there because your g-gma died of scarlet fever.

[FundieWatcher]

My great? grandmother (my grandfather's mother) died of strep throat

Mine too! Not right away. These damage it did to her heart caused problems and she passed after a few years.

Given what I went through with strep and what the doctor told me when I had it and didn't take the meds, I would want an antibiotic if I ever got it again. When you actually get that sick it is terrifying. If someone wants to try alternatives when they get it, of course that is their choice. Personally I would go back to the doctor.

[IronicallyMaeve]

My friend's goats despise dogs and will attack them if their personal space is intruded upon. My friend got a doberman when she didn't have any goats, then got goats again. Her ever-curious, none-too-sensible dog wiggled into the goat pen to play and promptly got beat up by her new goat. My friend had to rescue her huge, rather intimidating looking dobe from the little goat. He respects the goats now. And the pen has been fixed so he can't get in.

Part of responsible pet ownership is making sure animals that might injure each other badly are separated by good strong fences.

[OkToBeTakei]

Seriously folks go and get antibiotics because relations two generations back died? Can somebody point out how this makes any sense?

Obviously I'm saddened people's relatives died. The fact that if it is a great grandparent puts us back well quite a few decades if not more, decades of public health, knowledge etc etc. Also...not to be obtuse but I'm fairly certain in saying it's unlikely to be hereditary.

To the poster who asked why the 'damn' doctors just don't stop prescribing. If every second patient you see in your practise expects anti-biotics or has this mindset. I think you can see where the problem is. Well damn you poor old folk with C-diff and MRSA and damn the future generations .. My throat is sore.

Unfortunately even in a sample group as small as this thread you can see the issues. I'm sure not all these people are immuno-compromised or chronically ill. They ARE set and convinced though...hey ho!

It's how you change this culture that's the biggest problem.

[nelliebelle1197]

That's why my doctors usually do the WASP. Wait And See, then Prescription. They'll write the script to use if an infection doesn't start to clear up. Just because some strep infections need antibiotics doesn't mean that every single case does. Prescribing antibiotics for every single case of any given infections weakens their ability in the long run. If waiting a couple days won't hurt you (might not be so comfortable, but some discomfort won't kill you), then why not see what your body can do on its own instead of training your body that meds are on the way as soon as you get a sniffle?

Someone called this a public health issue. A bigger public health issue is people getting fecal matter on their hands, then not washing. A bigger risk than that is that it's legal to have a few drinks and then drive impaired. Someone getting strep and going out doesn't even ping my concern-dar. When someone in my family gets sick, if there are strep symptoms, into the doc for a quick culture and a WASP. Until there's a clean bill of health, all kisses and food- and drink-sharing stops to limit the risk of transmission. This is much better for us, AND FOR PUBLIC SAFETY, than continuing to contribute to making antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

No, it is not. What is better is to make sure you are not passing communicable illnesses that are easily transmitted to others. The CDC, which knows a little bit about infectious diseases, recommends antibiotics for strep to reduce communicability. I did a little reading on this. The issue with overprescribing seems to come from providers who treat every sore throat as strep and don't run a culture before prescribing.

My son and I both get strep frequently. His throat never gets sore. He throws up and runs a fever. He has had it four times in the last six months. I am sick of his being sick, quite frankly, because so many parents around us are either free ranger hippies who don't treat anything or work-obsessed yuppies who send their kids to school sick because they don't have time to deal with it (we have more and more of those and it is driving teachers nuts, especially in the lower grades).

[OkToBeTakei]

No, it is not. What is better is to make sure you are not passing communicable illnesses that are easily transmitted to others. The CDC, which knows a little bit about infectious diseases, recommends antibiotics for strep to reduce communicability. I did a little reading on this. The issue with overprescribing seems to come from providers who treat every sore throat as strep and don't run a culture before prescribing.

My son and I both get strep frequently. His throat never gets sore. He throws up and runs a fever. He has had it four times in the last six months. I am sick of his being sick, quite frankly, because so many parents around us are either free ranger hippies who don't treat anything or work-obsessed yuppies who send their kids to school sick because they don't have time to deal with it (we have more and more of those and it is driving teachers nuts, especially in the lower grades).

I'm not sure if your interpreting it correctly, because that type of advice would not prevent infection. The same could be said be said for all viral infections. They are all communicable and very difficult to isolate from. By the time your strep throat is serious enough to warrant anti-biotics it's already too late and chances are you've spread it anyway.

See a Healthcare Provider if You or Your Child has:

A sore throat that lasts longer than 1 week

Difficulty swallowing or breathing

Excessive drooling (young children)

Temperature higher than 100.4° F

Pus on the back of the throat

Rash

Hoarseness lasting longer than 2 weeks

Blood in saliva or phlegm

Symptoms of dehydration (dry, sticky mouth, sleepiness or tiredness, thirst, decreased urination or fewer wet diapers, few or no tears when crying, muscle weakness, headache, dizziness or lightheadedness)

Contact with someone with strep throat

Recurring sore throats

Your healthcare provider can determine the cause of a sore throat and if treatment is needed. If your child is younger than three months of age and has a fever, it’s important to always call your healthcare provider right away.

This from the US CDC site I assume you are referencing.

I'm interested to note that the advice differs in Europe where it states

Most sore throats are not due to infection with streptococci. Even without treatment, streptococcal pharyngitis will usually get better by itself in 4–10 days. The symptoms can be treated using medicines like paracetamol, resting and having plenty of fluids. Antibiotics (usually penicillin) might be used but will have little effect on symptoms and duration of illness in uncomplicated cases. They may be used in more severe cases, where complications might occur.

How to avoid getting streptococcal pharyngitis

To prevent spreading the bacteria, eating utensils, crockery, towels and napkins used by a person with the infection should be kept separate from the rest of the household. It is important for everyone to wash their hands frequently and carefully in any environment where someone has the infection.

What to do if you have streptococcal pharyngitis

There is no specific time period that you need to stay away from other people if you have streptococcal pharyngitis. Even severe cases, where antibiotics have been prescribed, only need to stay at home for 48 hours after they begin taking the tablets.

So there you have it. Probably explains the differing views here.

[FundieWatcher]

Seriously folks go and get antibiotics because relations two generations back died? Can somebody point out how this makes any sense?

My grandmother died of it in 1994.

I did not going to the doctor to specifically to get antibiotics. I went because I had a fever and a white splotchy throat. I was prescribed the antibiotics originally, did not take them because I believed it had caused me to breakout with acne before. The fever got much worse. It was seeing things that weren't there. Had trouble walking. Difficulties swallowing. The doctor was angry I didn't take my prescription.

Now, I've explained this because the question was asked. But honestly, no one is obligated to justify why they followed their provider's orders. They are the ones that have seen examined us, taken our history, ordered the lab tests, etc...

Now I suspect most of the people here are not medical doctors or medical researchers. That leaves you getting information from Google, news articles, blogs, etc... Even if they are good sources, it is still not your area of expertise and you have not treated us. It is great to be educated and form opinions. However I would hope you could stop giving us a guilt trip for using antibiotics. Our providers prescribed them and I don't think we should be faulted for following that treatment. I would restate that our providers examined us, reviewed the lab results and took our medical history. I don't think it is wrong to follow their course of treatment. I don't there is anything wrong with an adult deciding not to go to the doctor either, of course that is your choice even if I don't agree. I sense this a little like "the sky is falling". Trying to convince us that using antibiotics will cause others in the future will die. I hope science will continue to make improvements and develop new drugs to fight evolved bacteria.

So yeah, come on, lay off the guilt trips here. I hope I have explained my opinion well enough for you.

[polecat]

My great? grandmother (my grandfather's mother) died of strep throat when grandpa was a child. I don't mess around with strep. Even though I find the process of making an appointment, waiting a day, waiting in the lobby for hours with other sick people because the doctor is always running late so the doctor can tell me to get lab work, going to the lab, going back to get the prescription, taking the prescription to the pharmacist, waiting some more and paying fees every step of the way to be dehumanizing and demeaning. I know it's strep. I know the symptoms. I'm not a doctor, but I'm also not stupid. It tastes and feels like strep. I know there are people who are so out of touch with their bodies they manage to be pregnant without noticing a change, but I'm not one of them. I just hate that we can't have the medicine we need without jumping through a thousand hoops.

Strep has a really distinctive smell, too. Once you've smelled it, you'll know.

[August]

My grandmother died of it in 1994.

I did not going to the doctor to specifically to get antibiotics. I went because I had a fever and a white splotchy throat. I was prescribed the antibiotics originally, did not take them because I believed it had caused me to breakout with acne before. The fever got much worse. It was seeing things that weren't there. Had trouble walking. Difficulties swallowing. The doctor was angry I didn't take my prescription.

Now, I've explained this because the question was asked. But honestly, no one is obligated to justify why they followed their provider's orders. They are the ones that have seen examined us, taken our history, ordered the lab tests, etc...

Now I suspect most of the people here are not medical doctors or medical researchers. That leaves you getting information from Google, news articles, blogs, etc... Even if they are good sources, it is still not your area of expertise and you have not treated us. It is great to be educated and form opinions. However I would hope you could stop giving us a guilt trip for using antibiotics. Our providers prescribed them and I don't think we should be faulted for following that treatment. I would restate that our providers examined us, reviewed the lab results and took our medical history. I don't think it is wrong to follow their course of treatment. I don't there is anything wrong with an adult deciding not to go to the doctor either, of course that is your choice even if I don't agree. I sense this a little like "the sky is falling". Trying to convince us that using antibiotics will cause others in the future will die. I hope science will continue to make improvements and develop new drugs to fight evolved bacteria.

So yeah, come on, lay off the guilt trips here. I hope I have explained my opinion well enough for you.

Grr, my huge reply just got eaten. In short, don't assume anything just because no-one's flaunting their expertise. Doctors overprescribe and over test and over treat All. The. Time. to keep patients happy. You did not say you were really sick, you said you wanted abx because your ancestor died. And, if she only died in 1994, why didn't you know exactly how she was related to you, and why did you claim your grandpa was still a child then?

And, Pseudomonas aeruginosa smells lovely.

[FundieWatcher]

You did not say you were really sick, you said you wanted abx because your ancestor died

Whoa. I said no such thing. I didn't say any of that. You are confusing 2 people.

Even if you are have a medical background, you still haven't examined anyone here. You don't know their medical history. You don't have their lab results on your screen.

Btw, I have a science degree and I work in a lab. I still don't think I'm qualified to make medical choices for anyone else. There are some many variables that goes into choices providers make. A housewife in a wealthy, rural area might get a different treatment from a woman in a homeless shelter. Even if everything else in their medical history was equal. Even the person's economic situation factors in.

[Firiel]

I know over-prescription of antibiotics is a problem, but I always thought the problem was people insisting on antibiotics for viral infections or being given antibiotics before testing "just in case." And things like antibacterial handsoap and such when a good hand scrubbing is just as effective.

This is the first time I've heard people say you shouldn't take antibiotics for strep throat because your body could fight it off on it's own.

[polecat]

Seriously folks go and get antibiotics because relations two generations back died? Can somebody point out how this makes any sense?

Obviously I'm saddened people's relatives died. The fact that if it is a great grandparent puts us back well quite a few decades if not more, decades of public health, knowledge etc etc. Also...not to be obtuse but I'm fairly certain in saying it's unlikely to be hereditary.

To the poster who asked why the 'damn' doctors just don't stop prescribing. If every second patient you see in your practise expects anti-biotics or has this mindset. I think you can see where the problem is. Well damn you poor old folk with C-diff and MRSA and damn the future generations .. My throat is sore.

Unfortunately even in a sample group as small as this thread you can see the issues. I'm sure not all these people are immuno-compromised or chronically ill. They ARE set and convinced though...hey ho!

It's how you change this culture that's the biggest problem.

I don't recall saying "damn" doctors, but maybe I did. And I stand by my assertion that doctors are largely the ones causing the problem. Doctors are the ones prescribing, and maybe if they'd hold a little firmer that people don't need this or that drug (not just abx but any drug), we would not have this kind of problem. People who actually NEED the medications could get them, and people who didn't need them wouldn't. And those who are immunocompromised *like my sister IS and my mother WAS* wouldn't be vulnerable to abx-related infections because of all the sloppy and unnecessary abx use going on and maybe those with chronic pain like me could get the meds they need without being stigmatized as a drug abuser.

ETA: I can't find where I wrote "damn doctors" at all. If I did, I apologize because that IS disrespectful. But I still hold to my opinion.

[polecat]

Mine too! Not right away. These damage it did to her heart caused problems and she passed after a few years.

Given what I went through with strep and what the doctor told me when I had it and didn't take the meds, I would want an antibiotic if I ever got it again. When you actually get that sick it is terrifying. If someone wants to try alternatives when they get it, of course that is their choice. Personally I would go back to the doctor.

My aunt had strep and then scarlet fever and ended up with heart damage that caused her to go into cardiac arrest when giving birth (years later, I should add), which caused my cousin to develop cerebral palsy. Talk about a chain reaction. :(

I do agree that not every strep infection necessarily needs to be treated with abx, but I would not go that route unless I'd *already talked to my doctor *and had a prescription on hand in case things started going south. Strep can get bad FAST. When I was in my mid-20s, I woke with a sore throat. By the time I got to work, I had a fever of 103. I decided to go back home. By the time I got back home, it was 106, and that was AFTER I'd taken Motrin for it. An hour later, I got to the ER -- and I pretty much NEVER go to the ER --, and I had to go through a crap-ton of tests including a spinal tap (just no -- the pain is unholy) because the rapid strep came back negative but the fever kept going up. Ended up admitted because even the ER couldn't get my temp to go down. The regular strep test came back positive. That was a bear of an experience and one I wouldn't want to repeat ever.

(That said, my husband proposed shortly afterward because he said it scared the crap out of him, lol).

[OkToBeTakei]

Hey no guilt trips intended. It's not just personal opinion on my part it is actually part of my day job. Not to guilt folk, just awareness and education. There are exceptions to every rule and exceptional cases for every event. Nobody has to listen agree or change their own views at all.

I did state there seems to be differences in differing countries and that tends to be the same for a lot of medical treatment.

My country at the moment you cannot enter any public facility that does not have advice about the use of antibiotics especially with it being winter and bug season. Maybe that's not everybody else's experience. My past month has been UTI prevention professionally. Again maybe not your thing.

These threads always end the same *shrug* there is nothing wrong in exchanging views and experiences and just because your own personal story wants to negate what is offered. Does not mean it is wrong you know :)

Polecat it was probably me who said damn, with it being a common word for me, just my interpretation of the rant against doctors. Interesting as its not considered in any way swearing for me. Maybe another difference .... I'd be saying fuckwit doctors then :D

[Walking Cat Bed]

I know over-prescription of antibiotics is a problem, but I always thought the problem was people insisting on antibiotics for viral infections or being given antibiotics before testing "just in case." And things like antibacterial handsoap and such when a good hand scrubbing is just as effective.

This is the first time I've heard people say you shouldn't take antibiotics for strep throat because your body could fight it off on it's own.

I was very glad to be given antibiotics when I was fighting bronchitis -- because, in my case, it's usually because a cold migrates to my lungs and the crud has bacterial ook. It happens this way every other or third winter. The megadose of antibiotics cleared that up fast and, while it takes a while for my lungs to get back to normal, it's much easier to get to that point again without bacterial ook.

I'm a big fan of DIY/home remedies/self-care when possible. Hot tea is basically a magical elixir. But when that's not working, I go to medical professionals. Years and years and decades of school and research and daily use of knowledge are valuable and mean they know things I don't.

[DGayle]

I know over-prescription of antibiotics is a problem, but I always thought the problem was people insisting on antibiotics for viral infections or being given antibiotics before testing "just in case." And things like antibacterial handsoap and such when a good hand scrubbing is just as effective.

This is the first time I've heard people say you shouldn't take antibiotics for strep throat because your body could fight it off on it's own.

The WASP approach (wait and see, then prescription) gives your body a short time to start fighting it. If it does, then take the medication. Most people's bodies WILL fight it off. No one's saying don't take antibiotics no matter what. What we're arguing is to give your body a chance first, and then take meds. Antibiotics affect more than just the specific bacteria it's prescribed for. Other bugs it fights that it doesn't kill entirely will leave behind the strongest, and those strongest are what will breed. That's a problem.

[DGayle]

Years and years and decades of school and research and daily use of knowledge are valuable and mean they know things I don't.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WellnessNe ... id=7766583

Not always. Years of testing and the doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong with that girl. She diagnosed herself, CORRECTLY, with Crohns, when years of specialists missed it.

[Kailash]

No need to apologize. I haven't had a UTI in many years, but I remember how awful they can be. If I were a frequent sufferer, I'd be willing to try just about anything to prevent them.

Glad you found something that works for you. :)

I think it's important to note that cranberry supplements help PREVENT uti's. They don't cure. Untreated uti's can lead to sepsis, which can lead to death.