Rep. Harris & wife rehome adopted children Now with Exorcism

[Idolatry]

Food for thought. . . .I am going to ask the same question I asked last week.

Justin and Marsha Harris appear to be deplorable human beings lacking anything that resembles a moral, decision making compass. They failed these children every step of the way (as did others) and used political influence to satisfy their own egos. . .even when it was clearly in conflict with what was in the best interest of these kids.

SO WHAT?

Legally, they didn't break any laws. Harris is still an elected official with oversight of the DHS budget. Has anything REALLY changed now that the story has come out? I hate to sound so cynical, but people have short selective memory. It's a story today, but forgotten tomorrow. It's doesn't make it OK, but once the furor dies down will there be any REAL consequences for the Harris'?

Besides the damage to their reputation which, IMO, far too many people will be willing to forgive because they're "good Christians" who victimized by these girls and DHS.

Uh WTF?

Just because you live in Arkansas and/or are Christian doesn't mean you are braindead. Just look at the local news coverage. This guy has practically NO ONE defending him. People are furious. Look at that GoFundMe!

It's pretty clear investigations are just starting. There might be a lot of people who will soon wish they never met him. Like no one knew those girls were used as campaign props... :oops:

The more I read about this story, the more I think is going to come out. I think there will be consequences.

[HereticHick]

Rep. Harris had to step down from his committee leadership post yesterday: http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/ar ... airmanship

[2xx1xy1JD]

Uh WTF?

Just because you live in Arkansas and/or are Christian doesn't mean you are braindead. Just look at the local news coverage. This guy has practically NO ONE defending him. People are furious. Look at that GoFundMe!

It's pretty clear investigations are just starting. There might be a lot of people who will soon wish they never met him. Like no one knew those girls were used as campaign props... :oops:

The more I read about this story, the more I think is going to come out. I think there will be consequences.

We may snark on fundie Christians in Arkansas, but I'm pretty sure that they aren't keen to support blatant disregard for the well-being of very small little girls that led to one being raped. The babysitter and the foster parents really don't have any obvious reason to lie, and the idea that there was an abuse of power by a politician wouldn't exactly be a vote-getter either. There's a slight possibility that he could have come across as just a guy who didn't know what to do when the adoption needs were more than the family could handle, if it wasn't for the evidence that he was specifically warned about the issues and went straight to the Director to pull strings to get what he wanted anyway.

[Mama Mia]

We may snark on fundie Christians in Arkansas, but I'm pretty sure that they aren't keen to support blatant disregard for the well-being of very small little girls that led to one being raped. The babysitter and the foster parents really don't have any obvious reason to lie, and the idea that there was an abuse of power by a politician wouldn't exactly be a vote-getter either. There's a slight possibility that he could have come across as just a guy who didn't know what to do when the adoption needs were more than the family could handle, if it wasn't for the evidence that he was specifically warned about the issues and went straight to the Director to pull strings to get what he wanted anyway.

Yeah, I think this might be one of the only times I've ever seen a basically unanimous opinion on an issue in the comments section of the Internet! Generally there are at least a few people fighting no mater what the topic - from fluffy kittens to a sick child. But everyone seems to agree that Harris is just horrible.

[artdecades]

Rep. Harris had to step down from his committee leadership post yesterday: http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/ar ... airmanship

Ugh, but he's still a member. What a joke

[Gingi1976]

Ugh, but he's still a member. What a joke

THIS is my point. He's still a member and still in a position to direct policy and exert influence.

Harris is horrible. No doubt about it. But my guess is that there are still people in his circle of influence who believe he did no wrong and that he's the victim.

[apandaaries]

THIS is my point. He's still a member and still in a position to direct policy and exert influence.

Harris is horrible. No doubt about it. But my guess is that there are still people in his circle of influence who believe he did no wrong and that he's the victim.

I wish I didn't think you were right, but he deserves serious consequences for his actions -- and having to step down from a vice chairmanship isn't sufficient. He's still in office. He must have enough supporters to keep him there.

However, while I was composing this post, I checked around to see if people were trying to force him out. There's a facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/events/386684911515026/

They're calling the Arkansas House of Representatives: 501 682 6211 and the Arkansas Senate: 501 682 2902

I can't get through on the Senate line, but I did call the House of Reps. Doing anything is better than feeling helpless. It'd be great to get him out of office and even better to get him imprisoned on some solid charges.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I really, really hope there's a lawyer working on a very strong case against this bastard. The girls may not want to think about that, but when they're adults...They'll appreciate justice done on their behalf.

[Idolatry]

THIS is my point. He's still a member and still in a position to direct policy and exert influence.

Harris is horrible. No doubt about it. But my guess is that there are still people in his circle of influence who believe he did no wrong and that he's the victim.

What makes you think this is anywhere close to over? There have been some serious allegations thrown around about this whole corrupt mess. Just because it hasn't been dealt with five minutes later doesn't mean he doesn't have someone scary up his ass. Right now. I don't think this is over.

[KateFowler]

The Justin Harris rehoming debacle has shed light on fundies abusing their kids under the guise of so-called "therapeutic parenting" practices as a treatment for a non-existent condition called "attachment disorder":

M.arktimes.com/Arkansas/harris-therapy-controversial

The "attachment disorder" is apparently what Harris tried to treat his now ex-daughters (the ones he REHOMED with a pedophile rapist) by locking the older girl in her bedroom with no toys/books, under video surveillance.

Turns out that there's a HUGE cadre of self-proclaimed "trauma mamas" who have their own scary little subculture and unproven practices for "treating" ATTACHMENT DISORDER that doesn't exist -- they have "conferences" in Orlando, Florida to "support" each other in NOT JUDGING each other moms who have or are in the process of rehoming their kids, letting their 13 or 14 yo drop out of school (aka be "unschooled" or "homeschooled" while doing no academic work, "encouraging" each other to think that it's just fine to take a kid who repeatedly trashes the house/runs away/threatens to kill herself doesn't need an actual, licensed therapist/psychiatrist, and, well, encouraging each other to, um, carry on doing exactly what they're doing that clearly isn't working.

When did this start? Why did this start? And how horrible of a human being so you have to be to think it is WONDERFUL to ENCOURAGE others to discard or medically neglect adopted kids in the most callous way imaginable?!?

[apandaaries]

Found a change.org petition, if anyone is interested: https://www.change.org/p/arkansas-gover ... tin-harris

[polecat]

The Justin Harris rehoming debacle has shed light on fundies abusing their kids under the guise of so-called "therapeutic parenting" practices as a treatment for a non-existent condition called "attachment disorder":

M.arktimes.com/Arkansas/harris-therapy-controversial

The "attachment disorder" is apparently what Harris tried to treat his now ex-daughters (the ones he REHOMED with a pedophile rapist) by locking the older girl in her bedroom with no toys/books, under video surveillance.

Turns out that there's a HUGE cadre of self-proclaimed "trauma mamas" who have their own scary little subculture and unproven practices for "treating" ATTACHMENT DISORDER that doesn't exist -- they have "conferences" in Orlando, Florida to "support" each other in NOT JUDGING each other moms who have or are in the process of rehoming their kids, letting their 13 or 14 yo drop out of school (aka be "unschooled" or "homeschooled" while doing no academic work, "encouraging" each other to think that it's just fine to take a kid who repeatedly trashes the house/runs away/threatens to kill herself doesn't need an actual, licensed therapist/psychiatrist, and, well, encouraging each other to, um, carry on doing exactly what they're doing that clearly isn't working.

When did this start? Why did this start? And how horrible of a human being so you have to be to think it is WONDERFUL to ENCOURAGE others to discard or medically neglect adopted kids in the most callous way imaginable?!?

Reactive Attachment Disorder is a real thing.

It's not a thing that can be self-diagnosed, and just because a child is stubborn, ornery, precocious or otherwise "difficult" doesn't mean he or she has RAD. And it certainly cannot be treated by further abusing, neglecting, abandoning or otherwise traumatizing a child. But it is most certainly a real thing.

ETA: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 001547.htm

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and ... er_85.aspx

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20032126

[KateFowler]

Reactive Attachment Disorder is a real thing.

It's not a thing that can be self-diagnosed, and just because a child is stubborn, ornery, precocious or otherwise "difficult" doesn't mean he or she has RAD. And it certainly cannot be treated by further abusing, neglecting, abandoning or otherwise traumatizing a child. But it is most certainly a real thing.

ETA: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 001547.htm

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and ... er_85.aspx

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20032126

Of COURSE Reactive Attachment Disorder exists - it's in the DSMV! The nebulous "attachment disorder", however, does NOT exist.

[SoybeanQueen]

Reactive Attachment Disorder is a real thing.

It's not a thing that can be self-diagnosed, and just because a child is stubborn, ornery, precocious or otherwise "difficult" doesn't mean he or she has RAD. And it certainly cannot be treated by further abusing, neglecting, abandoning or otherwise traumatizing a child. But it is most certainly a real thing.

ETA: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 001547.htm

http://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and ... er_85.aspx

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-cond ... n-20032126

It's apparently very important to Kate that you never, ever forget to put the "reactive" part in front of attachment disorder.

[Toothfairy]

The Justin Harris rehoming debacle has shed light on fundies abusing their kids under the guise of so-called "therapeutic parenting" practices as a treatment for a non-existent condition called "attachment disorder":

M.arktimes.com/Arkansas/harris-therapy-controversial

The "attachment disorder" is apparently what Harris tried to treat his now ex-daughters (the ones he REHOMED with a pedophile rapist) by locking the older girl in her bedroom with no toys/books, under video surveillance.

Turns out that there's a HUGE cadre of self-proclaimed "trauma mamas" who have their own scary little subculture and unproven practices for "treating" ATTACHMENT DISORDER that doesn't exist -- they have "conferences" in Orlando, Florida to "support" each other in NOT JUDGING each other moms who have or are in the process of rehoming their kids, letting their 13 or 14 yo drop out of school (aka be "unschooled" or "homeschooled" while doing no academic work, "encouraging" each other to think that it's just fine to take a kid who repeatedly trashes the house/runs away/threatens to kill herself doesn't need an actual, licensed therapist/psychiatrist, and, well, encouraging each other to, um, carry on doing exactly what they're doing that clearly isn't working.

When did this start? Why did this start? And how horrible of a human being so you have to be to think it is WONDERFUL to ENCOURAGE others to discard or medically neglect adopted kids in the most callous way imaginable?!?

What a bitch. He's a horrible person. That's not how you treat attachment disorder or any disorder. And attachment disorder has to be diagnosed by a professional.

[GeoBQn]

Harris proposes a bill that will make it harder to get an abortion after rape or incest. Because of course he has learned nothing.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/03 ... l-consent/

[Idolatry]

Ignore the child abuse behind the curtain. The real problem is abortion.

If your rape victim is six years old, you can avoid that horror.

[thoughtful]

Harris proposes a bill that will make it harder to get an abortion after rape or incest. Because of course he has learned nothing.

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/03 ... l-consent/

What a walking sack of shit. Harris should be crouched in a dark room in his house, weeping for what he's done, not striding about proudly "legislating."

[polecat]

It's apparently very important to Kate that you never, ever forget to put the "reactive" part in front of attachment disorder.

All righty then.

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's apparently very important to Kate that you never, ever forget to put the "reactive" part in front of attachment disorder.

She's not just being a pain in the ass about this.

RAD is a thing. "Attachment Disorder", OTOH, is something that Nancy Thomas talks about, where she basically invented the diagnostic criteria and then promotes "attachment therapy" to cure it. This "attachment therapy", as they practice it, involves significant risks and no proven benefits.

This is the report from the task force of the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children (APSAC) on Attachment. It gives all the background, and it's pretty damning: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Ela ... 000000.pdf

Talking about "attachment" sounds warm and fuzzy. It's an actual term used by psychologists. Dr. Sears promotes what he calls "attachment parenting", which is basically about breastfeeding, using a sling instead of a stroller, sleeping with babies, avoid being overly rigid with schedules and following a child's cues instead, and avoiding corporal punishment. What these rogue "attachment therapists" are promoting is the exact opposite. It's Michael Pearl, using psychology instead of the Bible. Like the Pearls, attachment therapists ("ATs") claim that a child with this condition is basically evil for acting even in normal ways, and that the child will grow up doomed to be even more evil unless their methods are followed. Like the Pearls, ATs use harsh and at times even painful physical methods. Like the Pearls, ATs see a child crying and begging for it to stop as a sign to go on and do it more. Like the Pearls, ATs basically seek to destroy the child's will through torture. Like the Pearls, ATs demand instant, cheerful obedience. And like the Pearls, ATs have caused children to die.

Yes, it's evil and abusive what these adoptive parents do to their children - but they didn't suddenly pull this stuff from their asses. Someone needs to look at the Pearl-related deaths and check if these parents were exposed to ATs or their supporters, esp. on online boards. It would go a long way toward explaining how some of these people were fine with their biological children, but suddenly turned into brutal sadists with their adopted children.

[Terrie]

REAL scientists studying the effects of trauma on the brain will agree that some of the "symptoms" that Thomas points out do exist, but not because the child is evil. Rather, the issue is that parts of the brain are not able to mature and develop when neglected. So what you're seeing is immature behavior, not manipulation. Eg. "Obvious" lying is something that Thomas points to. Um, ever met a three year old? They're swear the didn't take the cookie, while the cookie is in their hand! And outside of fundies and their sort, we recognize that three year olds, with assistance, will outgrow that stage. So rather than Thomas's harsh "quick compliance" model, the recommendation is to meet the child at their developmental level. You're kid might be 10, but if he's acting three, it's because, developmentally, he's three. Respond to him like you would any three year old.

[Howl]

She's not just being a pain in the ass about this.

RAD is a thing. "Attachment Disorder", OTOH, is something that Nancy Thomas talks about, where she basically invented the diagnostic criteria and then promotes "attachment therapy" to cure it. This "attachment therapy", as they practice it, involves significant risks and no proven benefits....

Talking about "attachment" sounds warm and fuzzy. It's an actual term used by psychologists. Dr. Sears promotes what he calls "attachment parenting", which is basically about breastfeeding, using a sling instead of a stroller, sleeping with babies, avoid being overly rigid with schedules and following a child's cues instead, and avoiding corporal punishment. What these rogue "attachment therapists" are promoting is the exact opposite. It's Michael Pearl, using psychology instead of the Bible. Like the Pearls, attachment therapists ("ATs") claim that a child with this condition is basically evil for acting even in normal ways, and that the child will grow up doomed to be even more evil unless their methods are followed. Like the Pearls, ATs use harsh and at times even painful physical methods. Like the Pearls, ATs see a child crying and begging for it to stop as a sign to go on and do it more. Like the Pearls, ATs basically seek to destroy the child's will through torture. Like the Pearls, ATs demand instant, cheerful obedience. And like the Pearls, ATs have caused children to die.

Yes, it's evil and abusive what these adoptive parents do to their children - but they didn't suddenly pull this stuff from their asses. Someone needs to look at the Pearl-related deaths and check if these parents were exposed to ATs or their supporters, esp. on online boards. It would go a long way toward explaining how some of these people were fine with their biological children, but suddenly turned into brutal sadists with their adopted children.

Thanks for this important clarification. Also, do you think that if parents are exposed to this AD thinking BEFORE adopting, it gives them a false confidence/ utter arrogance to totally ignore and shut out recommendations of true experts (the Harris' and the Barbours come immediately to mind in this regard).

Harris should resign ASAP. He used his position to threaten cutting funding of a state agency to force his adoption and there apparently is a paper trail. That, to me, is where the possibility of legal actions comes in. Ex Texas Gov Rick Perry is current under indictment (abuse of official capacity, a first-degree felony) for threatening to veto funding for a Public Integrity Unit. Different states but similar actions.

Although apparently rehoming is not illegal in Arkansas, wouldn't it be regarded as abandoning a child? Might there be a possibility of legal action there as well? So hoping this a** ends up in prison.

[SoybeanQueen]

She's not just being a pain in the ass about this.

I disagree based on the hand-slappy tone she's exhibited throughout the thread, even toward people who clearly agree that none of what the Harrises have done is OK, but I agree that RAD is a thing and that Nancy Thomas is a dangerous quack.

As I said, some of my kids have RAD. I know what it is. I just disagree that someone abbreviating the name of the disorder means they're promoting holding therapy and child abuse. There are people who advocate weird and even dangerous treatments for the flu. That doesn't mean that everyone who calls it "flu" instead of seasonal influenza H1N1 needs to be slapped down during what is otherwise a rational discussion of issues.

[KateFowler]

I disagree based on the hand-slappy tone she's exhibited throughout the thread, even toward people who clearly agree that none of what the Harrises have done is OK, but I agree that RAD is a thing and that Nancy Thomas is a dangerous quack.

As I said, some of my kids have RAD. I know what it is. I just disagree that someone abbreviating the name of the disorder means they're promoting holding therapy and child abuse. There are people who advocate weird and even dangerous treatments for the flu. That doesn't mean that everyone who calls it "flu" instead of seasonal influenza H1N1 needs to be slapped down during what is otherwise a rational discussion of issues.

I am genuinely not trying to be "hand slappy" -- the whole reason I added the link to AK newspaper story, by the journalist who broke the Harris rehoming story, is BECAUSE it's about the giant chasm between RAD (the real illness) and "attachment disorder" as perpetuated by Nancy Thomas and way too many self-proclaimed "trauma mama" adopters who claim nonsensical things about AD or simply make up RAD "symptoms" not in the DSMV!

The AD proponents, like the folks at the Attachment and Trauma Network and Nancy Thomas, claim that RAD kids simultaneously:

(1) are unable to connect cause with effect (so they don't / can't learn from their mistakes)

(2) are super-manipulators and uber-"triangulates" of adults, especially those with degrees/advanced degrees and lots of hands-on experience with kids, eg teachers, principals, state-licensed healthcare providers like doctors, therapists, etc.

Manipulation REQUIRES an ability to connect cause with effect. A kid has to have an excellent, very sophisticated understanding of cause/effect to make their, say, teacher or principal do their bidding -- as the trauma mamas claim is the case.

(I've been a kid, I've for 2 elementary schoolers and, um, simply manipulating a teacher into thinking your mom/dad never feeds you or makes you go out in the cold without boots/jacket is not so easy -- especially if the kid's not scary-thin and has a sibling or two at the same school. Whatever sob story the "triangulating" kid tells has to stand up to, minimally, the scrutiny of her teacher asking sibling's teacher what's up and/or said teacher calling mom/dad to inquire why Suzy showed up in -15 without boots).

[Idolatry]

I am genuinely not trying to be "hand slappy" -- the whole reason I added the link to AK newspaper story, by the journalist who broke the Harris rehoming story, is BECAUSE it's about the giant chasm between RAD (the real illness) and "attachment disorder" as perpetuated by Nancy Thomas and way too many self-proclaimed "trauma mama" adopters who claim nonsensical things about AD or simply make up RAD "symptoms" not in the DSMV!

The AD proponents, like the folks at the Attachment and Trauma Network and Nancy Thomas, claim that RAD kids simultaneously:

(1) are unable to connect cause with effect (so they don't / can't learn from their mistakes)

(2) are super-manipulators and uber-"triangulates" of adults, especially those with degrees/advanced degrees and lots of hands-on experience with kids, eg teachers, principals, state-licensed healthcare providers like doctors, therapists, etc.

Manipulation REQUIRES an ability to connect cause with effect. A kid has to have an excellent, very sophisticated understanding of cause/effect to make their, say, teacher or principal do their bidding -- as the trauma mamas claim is the case.

(I've been a kid, I've for 2 elementary schoolers and, um, simply manipulating a teacher into thinking your mom/dad never feeds you or makes you go out in the cold without boots/jacket is not so easy -- especially if the kid's not scary-thin and has a sibling or two at the same school. Whatever sob story the "triangulating" kid tells has to stand up to, minimally, the scrutiny of her teacher asking sibling's teacher what's up and/or said teacher calling mom/dad to inquire why Suzy showed up in -15 without boots).

I have no idea what you are trying to say about some boots and triangulation, but consider my hand slapped.