Transgender teen girl from Christian family dies by suicide

[Mama Mia]

It is not one study but many studies, actually. As for snippets, I am basing my assessment upon what multiple sources have pulled up from Leelah's own words....which her parents have retained a lawyer to try to suppress based upon copyright laws.

Except there hasn't been a dramatic increse in suicides by young people since the black.box warnings went into effect. There has been a slight increase, but there have been other time periods with higher rates, it fluctuates slightly yearly. And there are other big social changes that took place during that time period : the economic crises- drastically impacting housing, education and employment for millions of young people. The saturation of social media - which is the double edged sword of support a.d bullying. And the massive spread of oxycontin abuse.

Whats interesting is that the only group that has shown a large and steady increase is people aged 45-64. Who commit suicide at roughly twice the rate of teens.

[artdecades]

Tumblr has a lot of problems. It is great at taking abstract, complex, academic theories with little application to practical life and cherry pick what they want to agree with and promote. There are a lot of young kids on tumblr who have delved into queer theory and decided that this or that must be 100 percent true and those who don't agree are "scum" (as someone pointed out the debate regarding "truscum" which is a debate but people seem to cling to one side or another). Complex institutions regarding race, gender, religion, etc often get minimized into flame wars and telling people how wrong they are. Interestingly, I read a comment from the scholar who coined the phrase "intersectionality" (which is very popular among tumblr activists) basically saying how people use it in these online communities is totally wrong and not what she meant at all because she was talking about broad social institutions and not individual thoughts or interactions.

At the same time, you have people who have lived privileged lives but are outcasts or awkward or whatever finding communities that "get them" and believing they are animals or pokemon (I have legit seen someone on tumblr using pokemon "pronouns) or whatever. That then gets mixed in with the other issues because tumblr is an open website so there is crossover and issues between the communities.

My problem with all of this is that it is a distraction. Its easier to go "lol look at how silly social justice people are on tumblr who think they are animals" than actually look at the dead girl and how her death could have been prevented.

[shedemei]

I'm too lazy to find a quote, so I'll just say this: this stuff on Tumblr isn't new. It was all on LiveJournal 10 years ago and still would be today if LJ hadn't run itself into the ground.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I'm too lazy to find a quote, so I'll just say this: this stuff on Tumblr isn't new. It was all on LiveJournal 10 years ago and still would be today if LJ hadn't run itself into the ground.

Yep. Hordes of people migrated from LJ to Tumblr and kept the same warring cliques, even.

[chaotic life]

Disregarding the suicidal risk of anti-depressant medication treatment for those under age 24 disregards important safety information, plain and simple.

I just did a CEU on depression today. As I said, I don't feel like arguing it. The black box warning speaks for itself, and responsible providers monitor their patients especially in the first 1-2 months and with any dosage or medication changes.

I will point out that suicide and not associated with established depression the majority of the time. Therefore, attempting to extrapolate the main demographic for all suicide and represent it as depression related suicide is inaccurate. The highest rate of depression related suicide is white males age 75 and older.

[Rachel333]

I don't think anyone is saying the risk of SSRI's should be ignored, at least I hope not. It is extremely important to closely monitor for suicidal thoughts when patients are receiving treatment.

From what I've read, the relationship isn't totally clear and researchers really don't understand why it happens. I have concerns that the risk is exaggerated and leads to young people not getting treatment (which usually does work for severe cases), but I certainly wouldn't say that risk isn't there.

Except there hasn't been a dramatic increse in suicides by young people since the black.box warnings went into effect. There has been a slight increase, but there have been other time periods with higher rates, it fluctuates slightly yearly. And there are other big social changes that took place during that time period : the economic crises- drastically impacting housing, education and employment for millions of young people. The saturation of social media - which is the double edged sword of support a.d bullying. And the massive spread of oxycontin abuse.

Whats interesting is that the only group that has shown a large and steady increase is people aged 45-64. Who commit suicide at roughly twice the rate of teens.

I think you guys are agreeing with each other, actually. The study that Mama Mia was referencing was the one that suggested the black box warnings, while not inaccurate, may have led to an increase in suicide attempts (and you're very right, it does have flaws), while chaotic life is talking about the studies that led to the black box warning being implemented in the first place.

[Idolatry]

If you want to support your child but are concerned about medical intervention, there is a very obvious solution: call them by their new name and refer to them as their actual gender. The fact that Leelah's mother referred to her as 'my son' makes it obvious that long term effects of hormones were not the major concern here.

I can only speak from my own experience, but being referred to correctly is huge, enormous, life changing in the best way possible if you have supportive people around you. Transitioning is synonymous with the choice to keep living, so if Leelah felt that it was barred to her... I can understand on a very personal level why she did what she did.

Even Cher hadn't been able to do this, and has says publicly she doesn't use the pronouns.

This would be a really tough situation for parents and the only way they wouldn't be blamed is if they rolled over and just got on board with whatever, which wouldn't be many parents.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Even Cher hadn't been able to do this, and has says publicly she doesn't use the pronouns.

This would be a really tough situation for parents and the only way they wouldn't be blamed is if they rolled over and just got on board with whatever, which wouldn't be many parents.

Here is a fairly recent (fall 2013) article where Cher discusses how she dealt with Chaz's transition:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 88488.html

Cher does use male pronouns when she talks about Chaz as he is now. But when she talks about the past, she still uses the name Chastity as well as female pronouns because that's the person she knew at that time.

[Disengaged]

Even Cher hadn't been able to do this, and has says publicly she doesn't use the pronouns.

This would be a really tough situation for parents and the only way they wouldn't be blamed is if they rolled over and just got on board with whatever, which wouldn't be many parents.

Believe me, I know that it doesn't happen often.

At the same time, the APA recommended treatment for gender dysphoria is transition of one kind or another. You can find people willing to engage in religious 'reparative' therapy, it's incredibly similar to reparative therapy for being gay, and has about the same level of success. Other than ignoring it, there really isn't a third option.

Also, I'm not sure if this is generally known, but depression is a symptom of gender dysphoria. http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Gender-dys ... ptoms.aspx Giving someone a larger and large dose of prozac is not going to help, if the underlying dysphoria is not addressed.

[Idolatry]

Here is a fairly recent (fall 2013) article where Cher discusses how she dealt with Chaz's transition:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/2 ... 88488.html

Cher does use male pronouns when she talks about Chaz as he is now. But when she talks about the past, she still uses the name Chastity as well as female pronouns because that's the person she knew at that time.

You can see it for yourself in Chaz's documentary if you don't believe me. It made me cringe. And that's after full on surgery, as a grown adult. I'm not sure many parents would be so quick to jump on pronouns for a child.

[Terrie]

Pronouns can be a little tricky. When in doubt, I default ot "they/them" except that I also drop the "th" from them, pronouncing it "'em" (like, "go with 'em" Said to 'em"). More than once, I've been accused of using "him" inappropriately because of the way I pronounce it.

[Mama Mia]

Disregarding the suicidal risk of anti-depressant medication treatment for those under age 24 disregards important safety information, plain and simple.

I just did a CEU on depression today. As I said, I don't feel like arguing it. The black box warning speaks for itself, and responsible providers monitor their patients especially in the first 1-2 months and with any dosage or medication changes.

I will point out that suicide and not associated with established depression the majority of the time. Therefore, attempting to extrapolate the main demographic for all suicide and represent it as depression related suicide is inaccurate. The highest rate of depression related suicide is white males age 75 and older.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm agreeing with you. I'm the one who pointed out the issue with increased suicidal ideation and risk in the first place.

I was pointing out the flaws in the theory to the poster who said there was a study showing suicides went up After the black box warning, and that the black box warning was counter-productive. I'm actually appalled that her Psychiatrist would tell her that anti)depressants don't increase the risk of suicidal ideation.

[chaotic life]

Point taken mama Mia, clearly I got lost in the conversation of who said what and misread what you were saying.

[FloraDoraDolly]

You can see it for yourself in Chaz's documentary if you don't believe me. It made me cringe. And that's after full on surgery, as a grown adult. I'm not sure many parents would be so quick to jump on pronouns for a child.

The documentary came out a couple years before the article, so Cher's use of pronouns might have changed during the intervening time period. And the article is over a year old, so that might not be an accurate reflection of the pronouns Cher is using today.

[Idolatry]

The documentary came out a couple years before the article, so Cher's use of pronouns might have changed during the intervening time period. And the article is over a year old, so that might not be an accurate reflection of the pronouns Cher is using today.

Well, great. I guess if you parents are as cool as Cher, you can hope for the correct pronouns a few years after you complete your surgery and/or when you hit 45. The point is a lot of non-fundie parents would have a lot of issues, and I'm not sure it's fair to blame religion, even if it's what they hide behind.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Well, great. I guess if you parents are as cool as Cher, you can hope for the correct pronouns a few years after you complete your surgery and/or when you hit 45. The point is a lot of non-fundie parents would have a lot of issues, and I'm not sure it's fair to blame religion, even if it's what they hide behind.

My take on Cher is that she had (and perhaps still has) difficulty letting Chastity go. I suppose one might respond that Chastity never truly existed, that Cher's child was always male, and Cher just needs to get over it. But that's easier said than done. Chastity was real to Cher and Cher misses her, or rather the idea of her. This doesn't mean that Cher doesn't love Chaz or accept Chaz. I remember an interview with the mother of Jazz Jennings where she talked about how difficult it was for her to put away Jazz's boy clothes. She broke down in tears and said she missed her baby boy, that the child in the old pictures was gone now. Obviously, she loves Jazz very much and has gone to great lengths to advocate for Jazz and support her transition, which started when Jazz was just five. But still, this mom needed to grieve the loss of her son. Cher might be struggling with similar emotions.