Frumper Fashion: It's not that feminine

[Quiverfullofit]

OT though, I don't understand when they get married and wear frumpers to their weddings. Jessa had a beautiful modest dress that didn't need any alterations (uh michelle..) and I understand they have more money then the average fundie, but it's sad to see these girls wear frumpers on the one day that is especially for them.

My local thrift store sells wedding dresses and they're a bit outdated (to me) but maybe a fundie could like it.

[Paperplate]

Ah, I'm the opposite, I'm a US size 5 and it's hard for me too. Stores don't usually have my size and I can fit in a 5 1/2 - 6 so some of my shoes are loose but it's not like I have many other alternatives. I usually get tennis shoes from the kids section, ha.

I can top that.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I'm a US 4. I get kids' running shoes, but when I need new heels ... super annoying!

[Paperplate]

for mennos sometimes beautiful = off limits. Like, even wearing a beautiful knit sweater is considered racy or seeking attention. :roll:

Some of them do actually know how to be attractive and modest, but most of the time fugly=holy to them.

I get that, but then why do they make those beautiful (to them) dresses? Why not choose ugly/plain fabrics?

[Coco]

I get that, but then why do they make those beautiful (to them) dresses? Why not choose ugly/plain fabrics?

i think it goes back to the little girl thing. Super childish is innocent and sweet in their view. Maybe that's why Michelle wore those horrible giant collars 10 years after they had gone out of style? The leaders at one of my childhood churches set a limit on flowers - no bigger than a quarter. Because that was a problem lol Huge florals.

Some girls did get carried away with the drabs though. It's sad on so many levels when a girl thinks ugly = pleasing to God.

[AuntCloud]

Good luck finding shoes that are comfortable AND cute with a skirt when you have high arches and wide feet!

Edit - Seriously, my choices are flip flops, big clunky Dansko-stle shoes, or walking shoes. Unless I want to pay $150 and just hope they fit. Usually I find a pair of shoes that feels comfy in the store. 1 block down the road and my legs hurt from the knees down. But oops! Can't return them now because they've been worn!

Did anyone call me? wide feet, high arches, the annoying "massive calf muscles and a slim ankle (the only slim part I own, apparently)" that are a recipe for foot pain.

I do have orthotics thanks to insurance, but wear my Keens with no orthotics at all. There have cute Mary-Janes that are supportive, go well with a skirt and last for years. They can be a bit pricey but I don't have many pairs of shoes that fit.

I've also had good experience with Bare Tracks shoes - I have boots, flats and pumps by this company and they're awesome.

ETA can I complain of being a size 7.5-8 (39 European) and never snagging anything on clearance since this is the size they run out of first?

[Bluenoser]

But they look like walking quilts.

:lol:

[browncoatslytherin]

OT though, I don't understand when they get married and wear frumpers to their weddings. Jessa had a beautiful modest dress that didn't need any alterations (uh michelle..) and I understand they have more money then the average fundie, but it's sad to see these girls wear frumpers on the one day that is especially for them.

My local thrift store sells wedding dresses and they're a bit outdated (to me) but maybe a fundie could like it.

please tell me i am not the only person who finds the t-shirt length short sleeve on a wedding dressing annoying as hell? jessa's was bordering on that annoying length, but actually pulled it off. i'm talking about the kind that are really loose and come down to at least the middle of the bicep, if not lower.

i understand wanting to be modest, and that maybe a cap sleeve isn't enough for you, but there are plenty of lovely long-sleeved dresses out there! the t-shirt length sleeve to me just looks so incongruent to an elegant wedding dress that it looks out of place and draws more attention to the weird factor.

to me, at least. fundies, just buy a long sleeved - or even 3/4 length sleeved - wedding dress. they exist, and they look a helluva lot better.

[FoxyMoxie]

please tell me i am not the only person who finds the t-shirt length short sleeve on a wedding dressing annoying as hell? jessa's was bordering on that annoying length, but actually pulled it off. i'm talking about the kind that are really loose and come down to at least the middle of the bicep, if not lower.

i understand wanting to be modest, and that maybe a cap sleeve isn't enough for you, but there are plenty of lovely long-sleeved dresses out there! the t-shirt length sleeve to me just looks so incongruent to an elegant wedding dress that it looks out of place and draws more attention to the weird factor.

to me, at least. fundies, just buy a long sleeved - or even 3/4 length sleeved - wedding dress. they exist, and they look a helluva lot better.

You can make t-shirt length short sleeves look elegant, but usually only by basing it on historical dresses, eg a 1910s (Titanic era) dress.

[FoxyMoxie]

i think it goes back to the little girl thing. Super childish is innocent and sweet in their view. Maybe that's why Michelle wore those horrible giant collars 10 years after they had gone out of style? The leaders at one of my childhood churches set a limit on flowers - no bigger than a quarter. Because that was a problem lol Huge florals.

Some girls did get carried away with the drabs though. It's sad on so many levels when a girl thinks ugly = pleasing to God.

Plain dress (as in, a specific type of dress worn by traditional Quakers, Amish etc) is not about being ugly. Many people including liberal modern Quakers have adopted a form of Plain dress which often looks like 'drab' clothing - it's about choosing different priorities to those of being fashionable or spending lots of money on clothes. It often has an environmental or trade justice slant to it. Now I'm not saying that these girls were coming from that perspective because it's highly unlikely, but there is that perspective on 'drab' clothes.

[browncoatslytherin]

You can make t-shirt length short sleeves look elegant, but usually only by basing it on historical dresses, eg a 1910s (Titanic era) dress.

oh yeah, the fluttery sleeves. those are pretty.

but the ones i'm talking about are straight and look just like a t-shirt. kinda like anna's and elissa maxwell's, although those are a little shorter than even some i've seen, like nr-anna maxwell's dress. those just do not look very elegant and pretty to me. i think if they really want to be modest, and they don't want a cap sleeve, either a fluttery sleeve, a 3/4 length sleeve, or a long sleeve should serve their purpose.

[FoxyMoxie]

I'm not talking about fluttery sleeves? 1910s dresses have straight sleeves too.

Silk evening dress from around 1910. Those sleeves are quite close-fitting but they're t-shirt length.

I am deeply uncomfortable with telling women how to dress. It's an inherently unfeminist thing. I do feel that women should wear whatever they like, including a short-sleeved dress on their wedding day.

[RachelB]

Did anyone call me? wide feet, high arches, the annoying "massive calf muscles and a slim ankle (the only slim part I own, apparently)" that are a recipe for foot pain.

I do have orthotics thanks to insurance, but wear my Keens with no orthotics at all. There have cute Mary-Janes that are supportive, go well with a skirt and last for years. They can be a bit pricey but I don't have many pairs of shoes that fit.

I've also had good experience with Bare Tracks shoes - I have boots, flats and pumps by this company and they're awesome.

ETA can I complain of being a size 7.5-8 (39 European) and never snagging anything on clearance since this is the size they run out of first?

Add me to the weirdly-shaped foot club, please!

Wide forefoot, narrow heel and ankle, high arch, high instep, big calves. The best (only?) fitting shoes I've ever found were a pair of Finn Comfort oxfords. Flat, black, wear 'em with everything.

Next best are a pair of Josef Seibels found on clearance. Comfy footbed, but the soles, though apparently flat, are less stable than the FCs-- I turned both ankles a couple weeks ago wearing them.

Re: the conversation on fabrics and cuts, I have a significant pull toward clothing that could be considered Quaker-ish modern plain. I do not have any urge to cover my head, and I don't think I'm giving up wearing burgundy / maroon anytime soon, but the muted colors of plain dress appeal to me aesthetically and practically. I also like secondhand clothes for Quakerish reasons: avoiding subsidizing sweatshop labor while on a budget and keeping a clothing item from winding up in a landfill while there's still some use in it.

[Quiverfullofit]

please tell me i am not the only person who finds the t-shirt length short sleeve on a wedding dressing annoying as hell? jessa's was bordering on that annoying length, but actually pulled it off. i'm talking about the kind that are really loose and come down to at least the middle of the bicep, if not lower.

i understand wanting to be modest, and that maybe a cap sleeve isn't enough for you, but there are plenty of lovely long-sleeved dresses out there! the t-shirt length sleeve to me just looks so incongruent to an elegant wedding dress that it looks out of place and draws more attention to the weird factor.

to me, at least. fundies, just buy a long sleeved - or even 3/4 length sleeved - wedding dress. they exist, and they look a helluva lot better.

I thought Jessa's was cute, although it did look like a modest prom dress..

Seemingly modest and absolutely beautiful, fitted (but not tight) and feminine.

But noooo

[AuntCloud]

Rachel, if you can find Bare Tracks, they're wonderful and mid-range, price-wise.

I've never tried the Finn Comfort, will see if they can be found in my fair city. Shoe shopping is a pain. I let others accumulate Louboutins...

[Grimalkin]

Hmmmm.....I never thought of the seven sisters as ever actively seeking to be feminine. I think of them as the awkward tomboy girl next door of the Fundie world. Now that I think of it I don't recall a whole lot of Jesus talk on their blog.

Off to investigate!

[Mama Mia]

I thought Jessa's was cute, although it did look like a modest prom dress..

Seemingly modest and absolutely beautiful, fitted (but not tight) and feminine.

But noooo

I completely understand and agree with not shaming women regarding their clothing choices. And also see the point of plain dress, for all of the sustainability, sweatshop etc. reasons. AND am old enough to know that whatever people are going "ew, ick, why would they wear a THAT!" , is likely to be considered beautiful in a decade or three and conversely with whatever is the current trend.

But -- all those principles aside--- I WANT those two dresses. Not even for wedding dresses, just to put on my old, out of shape body and wear around the house :D I am seriously committing several sins of greed, envy, coveting. I WANT. Because they are pretty. Oh, and Jessa's dress too. Want. Want. Want.

[Grimalkin]

I just read their DC trip blog. First if all I am pretty sure they have seen more of DC than Josh and Anna ever have.I think they k ow more about history than all the Duggars combined.

They were genuinely excited to be there and were gushing like One Direction was standing in front of them while looking at The White House.they took a picture of Michelle Obama's veggie garden. No political speeches just appreciated being there. They were very moved by the MLK junior memorial. They hung out with a black family and did not seem to make a big deal of it. I think Michelle talks extra slow and babieish while talking to minorities. One of them made a joke about having to behave themselves because there were police officers around.

Are they even fundies? They dress like fundies, homeschool like fundies, i am sure they are Christians. Odd.

[Lissa1481]

The "about me" section on their page says they are Baptist.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

ETA can I complain of being a size 7.5-8 (39 European) and never snagging anything on clearance since this is the size they run out of first?

I've always had the opposite experience. When I look for clearance there's an abundance of 7s and 8s and approximately four ugly pairs of size 10 to fit my clown feet. I never get to buy clearance shoes. :(

[fun2beme]

I'm not talking about fluttery sleeves? 1910s dresses have straight sleeves too.

Silk evening dress from around 1910. Those sleeves are quite close-fitting but they're t-shirt length.

I am deeply uncomfortable with telling women how to dress. It's an inherently unfeminist thing. I do feel that women should wear whatever they like, including a short-sleeved dress on their wedding day.

I really like short-sleeved dressed with a scoop neck and would love to wear one if I was ever lucky enough. Don't like cape sleeves because I'm broad shouldered and they tend to limit my arm movement, and don't like flutterly sleeves (for myself) since I'm self-conscious of my flabby upper arms. I'd melt in a long-sleeved dress. Though I do admire these styles on other women.

I'm also drawm towards more simple gowns, minimal lace and sequins. I think the right styles of these, combined with a nice necklace, is really elegant. I'm just a plain Jane at heart.

[Coco]

Add me to the weirdly-shaped foot club, please!

Wide forefoot, narrow heel and ankle, high arch, high instep, big calves. The best (only?) fitting shoes I've ever found were a pair of Finn Comfort oxfords. Flat, black, wear 'em with everything.

Next best are a pair of Josef Seibels found on clearance. Comfy footbed, but the soles, though apparently flat, are less stable than the FCs-- I turned both ankles a couple weeks ago wearing them.

Re: the conversation on fabrics and cuts, I have a significant pull toward clothing that could be considered Quaker-ish modern plain. I do not have any urge to cover my head, and I don't think I'm giving up wearing burgundy / maroon anytime soon, but the muted colors of plain dress appeal to me aesthetically and practically. I also like secondhand clothes for Quakerish reasons: avoiding subsidizing sweatshop labor while on a budget and keeping a clothing item from winding up in a landfill while there's still some use in it.

Re: bolded, I totally agree. Sewing is a hobby of mine, so seeing complicated clothing on sale for $5 just makes my heart break for whoever put it together. At least at the Goodwill i'm not rewarding slavery. Sometimes we have to buy clothes at Walmart, but it still bothers me.

[2xx1xy1JD]

oh yeah, the fluttery sleeves. those are pretty.

but the ones i'm talking about are straight and look just like a t-shirt. kinda like anna's and elissa maxwell's, although those are a little shorter than even some i've seen, like nr-anna maxwell's dress. those just do not look very elegant and pretty to me. i think if they really want to be modest, and they don't want a cap sleeve, either a fluttery sleeve, a 3/4 length sleeve, or a long sleeve should serve their purpose.

Sounds like my mother's wedding dress. She was married in 1969 as is an atheist Jew, so nothing fundie there.

My wedding dress had a short, off-the-shoulder sleeve.

I don't see what would be wrong with short sleeves. I'm glad I'm not getting married today, because a sleeveless dress isn't that flattering when you are top-heavy with arm flab, and long sleeves are just awkward and uncomfortable when you are trying to eat and dance.

[browncoatslytherin]

Sounds like my mother's wedding dress. She was married in 1969 as is an atheist Jew, so nothing fundie there.

My wedding dress had a short, off-the-shoulder sleeve.

I don't see what would be wrong with short sleeves. I'm glad I'm not getting married today, because a sleeveless dress isn't that flattering when you are top-heavy with arm flab, and long sleeves are just awkward and uncomfortable when you are trying to eat and dance.

well, nothing is really inherently *wrong* with t-shirt length sleeves. i just personally find that from what i've seen of them, the overall feel clashes with the design of the gown and creates a dissonance. in other words, you have a nice, elegant (if not fancy) gown...and then you have these straight, t-shirt length sleeves that screams casual. of course (despite my outward appearance) i'm actually deeply into fashion and designing and visuals, so little things like that irk me probably a lot more than the average person. i just notice things others don't. it's not a bad or good thing, necessarily, it's just me.

[Johanna25]

Good luck finding shoes that are comfortable AND cute with a skirt when you have high arches and wide feet!

Edit - Seriously, my choices are flip flops, big clunky Dansko-stle shoes, or walking shoes. Unless I want to pay $150 and just hope they fit. Usually I find a pair of shoes that feels comfy in the store. 1 block down the road and my legs hurt from the knees down. But oops! Can't return them now because they've been worn!

Hi Jessica. I just want to recommend you try out Aerosoles. I just got two pairs of very comfortable 2" high pumps in US size 6 1/2 W. They have a large range of sizes in both M and W, and they are in the $40-$50 range rather than $100-$200.

[neuroticcat]

I think the idea behind frumpers is also femininity without sexuality. So the bagginess and fabric choices are "feminine", i.e. old-fashioned girl-esque without being form fitting, womanly, or sensual.

I was astonished how invisible I felt the one time I dressed up in fundie attire for a couple's costume party (yes. we went as Jim Bob and Michelle as I was enormously pregnant at the time). It was like magic: no one looked at me like a woman, if that makes sense.

I wonder how many fundie women hide behind the frumper.