Woman "Attacked"/denied Job because of Christianity (?)

[nomoxian]

I think that business is AWESOME ... though, to save their ass legally, he probably shouldn't have said certain things while representing his company.

[FloraKitty35]

A simple letter stating, thank you for your application would have sufficed.

[Firiel]

I think that business is AWESOME ... though, to save their ass legally, he probably shouldn't have said certain things while representing his company.

A business that steals photos to misrepresent themselves and sends sexually explicit e-mails to female applicants is awesome?

Well okay then.

[BrownieMomma]

I think that business is AWESOME ... though, to save their ass legally, he probably shouldn't have said certain things while representing his company.

Just wondering if you'd elaborate on why you feel that company is awesome.

I'm kinda not seeing it.

[Mama Mia]

Okay.

I sent this question to a prominent labor lawyer friend of mine and he responded right away and will not, hopefully, bill me $600.

I am not reposting his response as I don't think he would like a verbatim repost. BUT, the gist is yes, rejecting an application based solely on your assumptions about someone's religion based on their college is discrimination. However, if you reject them because they philosophically feel some way and it could impact performance or their ability to work in an environment, then it is not. For example, if an anti-choice nurse is hired or interviewed at an abortion clinic and loses his job or is not hired because he cannot perform his duties because of his belief that abortion is wrong, that is not discrimination. Regardless, litigation for these types of rejection would be next to impossible because it simply can't be proven in most cases why the individual did not get the job unless some idiot puts it in an email.

So I guess I am wrong. Mama Mia, I do understand better now where you are coming from, but I think the issue is that you were presenting your argument as if the attendance at the college gave the person protection in a class. It does not. The person is protected, such as it is, from discrimination based on assumption that her association with said university automatically disqualifies her if that is the only factor in rejection. My friend made it very clear that while this is the letter of the law, it really does not matter much because in the US, proving you did not get a job because a hiring manager does not like your college is impossible.

Well now I'm quoting you again, because you just explained what I was trying to say MUCH better than I obviously was :D

[nelliebelle1197]

Well now I'm quoting you again, because you just explained what I was trying to say MUCH better than I obviously was :D

That wasn't me who was upset about the quoting!

[Mama Mia]

Oops. Sorry, my bad :embarrassed: Your explanation is definitely clearer than what I was trying to say.

In hiring I've always tried to be very, very careful about these kind of things, cause you're always hearing horror stories about litigious applicants.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I did once hire a guy who had an excellent resume, interviewed great, references checked out. But turned out to be a horrible employee. Rude, abrasive and just didn't do a good job. And every time I approached him on it he would yell discrimination - because he was the only male on staff. And he did it in a way that screamed - go ahead and fire me, I'm just looking for a lawsuit. It was a freaking nightmare. Eventually he stepped so far over the line that I could terminate him and say screw it if he sues - but, yea, no fun.

[DGayle]

And, I have to say, that whether or not I'm the target of a group that is anti-gay, anti-Semitic, racist, misogynistic, etc., I don't want to work in an environment where that view is tolerated. This isn't a specific concern to certain jobs; people are entitled to feel safe in their work environments. And no smart employer will hire someone who holds such views with a hope that they'll "behave appropriately" -- if for no other reason than that an employer can be liable in the event of workplace discrimination.

This reminded me of one of my husband's ex-but-now-again co-workers. He left the company for a higher-paying job. The other company tolerated bigotry as long as the customers didn't see it, and it didn't constitute a hostile work environment to talk about "fags" and worse that I won't even type in quotes, as long as it wasn't aimed at anyone there. My husband's pal is a straight white man, so none of it could have been aimed at him.

He was still so uncomfortable with it that he walked out in the middle of the day. I don't think he was there a whole week. He just couldn't put up with it anymore.

And years ago the company (same one he's still at, just different location and job) hired someone who was pretty devout, and that guy started complaining about how hearing talking of equality and support for gay marriage was violating his religious rights. To avoid a lawsuit, the company had to tell everyone to stop talking about supporting people. It sucked. Religious rights to not have to hear anything trumped he rights of the gay workers in the company who needed the support.

They got rid of him finally when the other coworkers kept having get-togethers and nit inviting him. There are no laws saying you have to invite everyone at work to your birthday part or to your place for the football game. They were civil to him, but he came to realize he had established himself as an outside, and he finally quit. No one wanted around a guy who bitched and complained about people supporting minority rights.

I wonder if it would be legal to have part of the hiring paperwork say, "This company supports equality, and will not curb any discussions about supporting oppressed minorities. Accepting employment here means that you accept you may hear discussion supporting rights including but not limited to, equal marriage rights for LGBT people, equal pay rights for women, racial equal rights, and he right to individual practice of religion. No one must participate, in any way, with any of these, but no one may attempt to shut down discussions of support."

So you can pray or do whatever, but trying to say that other people can't openly support gay rights would make the practice of your own religion forced on other people.

[DGayle]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I did once hire a guy who had an excellent resume, interviewed great, references checked out. But turned out to be a horrible employee. Rude, abrasive and just didn't do a good job. And every time I approached him on it he would yell discrimination - because he was the only male on staff. And he did it in a way that screamed - go ahead and fire me, I'm just looking for a lawsuit. It was a freaking nightmare. Eventually he stepped so far over the line that I could terminate him and say screw it if he sues - but, yea, no fun.

Now I'm incredibly curious what he did.

[Maggie Mae]

In the US, almost every state is "at will" anyone can be fired, for any or no reason. This makes proving discrimination lawsuits very difficult. If you don't like an employee, or think they make too much money or you could find someone else, just don't give a reason.

[Mama Mia]

In the US, almost every state is "at will" anyone can be fired, for any or no reason. This makes proving discrimination lawsuits very difficult. If you don't like an employee, or think they make too much money or you could find someone else, just don't give a reason.

In theory, that's true. But in actuality, if you don't document EVERYTHING you can get in a great deal of trouble. It probably varies by field. But working in social services, where everything is highly regulated, even at non-profits, firing someone without a good reason is just begging for problems.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

The guy I ended up firing cashed a check meant for a client.

[Maggie Mae]

In theory, that's true. But in actuality, if you don't document EVERYTHING you can get in a great deal of trouble. It probably varies by field. But working in social services, where everything is highly regulated, even at non-profits, firing someone without a good reason is just begging for problems.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

The guy I ended up firing cashed a check meant for a client.

I think some states require more than others. I don't think is it right, of course, because the laws clearly ate in favor of the business. But there are always exceptions and ways to get rid of someone.

I'd give personal stories but I don't know how to do hidden content.