Adrian Peterson and the Pearl method of abuse

[Toothfairy]

Please tell me you are trolling, because I'd prefer that over knowing you are in favor of beating children. Age doesn't enter into it -- nobody should be beaten.

If you really believe this, tell me under what circumstances you think a beating would work better to teach and change behavior than a non-violent solution.

Not the way AP beat his son but if a teenager wants to act out, smoke, drink, have sex, beat on their parents then yes they need a good smack(maybe beat is the wrong word to use) the way some kids talk to their parents these days is disgusting. If all else fails then yes parents should have that right to give a couple of licks to their kids behind. My grandmother told me she would rather beat my ass at home then to have the streets beat me ass.

[Toothfairy]

Not against beating your kid?????

Personally I am against beating any living being......why is it okay when its your kid?

If you hit an adult the way that Peterson, and countless others hit their kids, you would get arrested.

If you hit someone else's child in that way, you would be arrested.

If you hit your pet in that way, you would get arrested and have your pet taken away.

Why is it okay to hit a kid in a way that its looked down upon to do it to other human beings and to animals?

Like I said I don't agree with the way Adrian beat his son and at that age there are other things he could've done. But some kids need to get to spanked and parents have every right to discipline their child that fits their parenting style. I'm not saying best your kid to death. And it should never marks. In this day and age Adrian would be charged with child abuse.

[GiGi_41]

Like I said I don't agree with the way Adrian beat his son and at that age there are other things he could've done. But some kids need to get to spanked and parents have every right to discipline their child that fits their parenting style. I'm not saying best your kid to death. And it should never marks. In this day and age Adrian would be charged with child abuse.

Don't know why I'm going to do this as I know nothing I say will convince you otherwise but... No matter what the age of the child, even a teenager lipping off, a child doesn't deserve to be spanked.

Parents do not have the right to discipline children based on their parenting style if that equates to corporal punishment,

There are different ways to address behavior that might be disrespectful. unfortunately teaching respect means you must respect your child when they were toddler and younger.

I spend a lot of type making sure that I don't put my daughter in a situation that might cause her to misbehave. Obviously not everything can be avoided, so it's minimizing the challenge.

When we go out to dinner she may bring a toy to play with, but she is reminded she needs to sit quietly. This will give us about a twenty minute window. With a chance to eat if the restaurant fast. When Her limit is up the novelty has worn off. I try shhhooosshhing her to get a few more minutes, then the whining really starts... This is when the argument could start. Instead I chose to respect my daughter's wishes and we leave.

She's happy, I might be a little disappointed because I wanted to stay but happy there isn't a fight.

Do that a few times and the length gets longer.. It is also the number of kids her age she can play with.

[DGayle]

I'm not against beating your kid if they really need it. Like an older child maybe pre teen teen years beating on their parents or acting like they're grown. I've seen it before. I think for a 4yo, using a switch was un nessasory. At that age a spanking or time out would've been fine. And you should never beat your kids when you're angry.

Do you mean a spanking, or an actual beating? They aren't the same thing. I'm not against a slap on the butt if a kid just plain won't listen or respond to anything else you're trying (I do, but not for the purpose of causing pain, just enough to get attention), but not beating them. Beating goes beyond punishment and into something beyond that. I hope you aren't really advocating BEATING, and just misspoke.

Edit: Read on more. Got my answer.

[RosyDaisy]

I'm not against beating your kid if they really need it. Like an older child maybe pre teen teen years beating on their parents or acting like they're grown. I've seen it before. I think for a 4yo, using a switch was un nessasory. At that age a spanking or time out would've been fine. And you should never beat your kids when you're angry.

WTF? I might understand defending yourself against a teenager who is bigger than you. Otherwise, there is no excuse for hitting child. As for the "never beat your kids when you're angry", that comes straight from Mike Pearl. It's more sinister than than doing it out of anger.

[It'sFunToRun]

Not the way AP beat his son but if a teenager wants to act out, smoke, drink, have sex, beat on their parents then yes they need a good smack(maybe beat is the wrong word to use) the way some kids talk to their parents these days is disgusting. If all else fails then yes parents should have that right to give a couple of licks to their kids behind. My grandmother told me she would rather beat my ass at home then to have the streets beat me ass.

If an 18 year old or 24 year old wants to smoke, drink, have sex or use disgusting language, is it okay to whip them? Then why is it okay at 17 or at 14?

The only part I agree with is that if a big child (like, close to your size) hits you first, then it might be justifiable to hit them back. But for smoking, drinking, having sex or talking back, NO WAY!!

I don't really even believe in punishing, but punishing for smoking, drinking and talking back I at least understand. Why would you punish a teen for having sex? If they committed rape, then you need to let the justice system deal with them; if they didn't commit rape, then make sure they have condoms and give them a wink, not a slap.

[It'sFunToRun]

Not the way AP beat his son but if a teenager wants to act out, smoke, drink, have sex, beat on their parents then yes they need a good smack(maybe beat is the wrong word to use) the way some kids talk to their parents these days is disgusting. If all else fails then yes parents should have that right to give a couple of licks to their kids behind. My grandmother told me she would rather beat my ass at home then to have the streets beat me ass.

Hey Toothfairy, my 82 year old neighbor smokes, drinks, uses foul language, and is very rude to people who get on her bad side. Will you please fly over to my city and give her a few slaps on the hiney to straighten her out? Thanks!!! :D

[Toothfairy]

A 17 and 14 yo are children living with their parents. I've seen my fair share of out of control teens skipping school, having sex with multiple people, or having sex for an item, teens thinking they're grown coming in whenever they feel like and beating on their parents. I'm not talking about a 4yo or a small child. A timeout or one slap on the butt will do at that age. Sorry I will not allow my teenagers to control me or my household.

[Toothfairy]

If an 18 year old or 24 year old wants to smoke, drink, have sex or use disgusting language, is it okay to whip them? Then why is it okay at 17 or at 14?

The only part I agree with is that if a big child (like, close to your size) hits you first, then it might be justifiable to hit them back. But for smoking, drinking, having sex or talking back, NO WAY!!

I don't really even believe in punishing, but punishing for smoking, drinking and talking back I at least understand. Why would you punish a teen for having sex? If they committed rape, then you need to let the justice system deal with them; if they didn't commit rape, then make sure they have condoms and give them a wink, not a slap.

smoking drinking and having sex are for adults and I won't allow my child to do that. If my son or daughter committed rape not only will I turned them over to the police but yes I would discipline them before I do.

[lemonhead]

The memory of watching my mother physically discipline my (at the time) 19-year old brother is one of my most disturbing and horrifying childhood memories. My parents thought it was perfectly okay to use corporal punishment as long as we were living at home. I remember my brother--at least a foot taller than my mother--crying and begging her not to make him bend over the bed for his "whooping."

I don't know what my brother learned from that incident--he has some serious interpersonal problems, has never married or had kids, so no opportunity for him to pass on the tradition :roll: --but I can say that for me it only reinforced my understanding that my family was fucked up and my mother was to be feared. All of the beatings I experienced and witnessed, including black eyes, bruises, bloody welts, split lips...only taught me rage and shame and the ability to hide things from my parents. It did not teach me respect or obedience, or godliness.

[ILoveJellybeans]

The memory of watching my mother physically discipline my (at the time) 19-year old brother is one of my most disturbing and horrifying childhood memories. My parents thought it was perfectly okay to use corporal punishment as long as we were living at home. I remember my brother--at least a foot taller than my mother--crying and begging her not to make him bend over the bed for his "whooping."

I don't know what my brother learned from that incident--he has some serious interpersonal problems, has never married or had kids, so no opportunity for him to pass on the tradition :roll: --but I can say that for me it only reinforced my understanding that my family was fucked up and my mother was to be feared. All of the beatings I experienced and witnessed, including black eyes, bruises, bloody welts, split lips...only taught me rage and shame and the ability to hide things from my parents. It did not teach me respect or obedience, or godliness.

Holy crap, there are parents out there who think it is okay to spank their adult kids if they misbehave????

I thought even the worst of the fundies usually stopped by the time their kid was as big as them.

[It'sFunToRun]

A 17 and 14 yo are children living with their parents. I've seen my fair share of out of control teens skipping school, having sex with multiple people, or having sex for an item, teens thinking they're grown coming in whenever they feel like and beating on their parents. I'm not talking about a 4yo or a small child. A timeout or one slap on the butt will do at that age. Sorry I will not allow my teenagers to control me or my household.

What about an 18 or 24 year old who is living with his parents?

Come to think of it, a lot of the adults I know misbehave quite a bit. I just had an epiphany -- what if it's because they just haven't had a good whooping in a long time? Free Jinger should start a task force to go around spanking everyone who drinks, smokes, or mouths off. I'll lead it :D

[Mecca]

The memory of watching my mother physically discipline my (at the time) 19-year old brother is one of my most disturbing and horrifying childhood memories. My parents thought it was perfectly okay to use corporal punishment as long as we were living at home. I remember my brother--at least a foot taller than my mother--crying and begging her not to make him bend over the bed for his "whooping."

I don't know what my brother learned from that incident--he has some serious interpersonal problems, has never married or had kids, so no opportunity for him to pass on the tradition :roll: --but I can say that for me it only reinforced my understanding that my family was fucked up and my mother was to be feared. All of the beatings I experienced and witnessed, including black eyes, bruises, bloody welts, split lips...only taught me rage and shame and the ability to hide things from my parents. It did not teach me respect or obedience, or godliness.

I am sorry that happened to you, Lemon head.

I was about sixteen when my father punched me in the face, ripping my lip and mouth just because I asked if he could give me a ride to finish up a school project. He did not want to be disturbed studying for his sermon, so yeah.

Anyway, here is my experience working within the juvenile justice system. If a teen gets violent with a parent, it is usually because there is violence or some other dsyfunction within the home. Sure, I have worked on cases where that was not the case, and I am not saying parental abuse does not exist, but usually when a teen beats on a parent it is because they where beat on or they have witnessed a parent being beat on by the other parent or partner.

[thoughtful]

A 17 and 14 yo are children living with their parents. I've seen my fair share of out of control teens skipping school, having sex with multiple people, or having sex for an item, teens thinking they're grown coming in whenever they feel like and beating on their parents. I'm not talking about a 4yo or a small child. A timeout or one slap on the butt will do at that age. Sorry I will not allow my teenagers to control me or my household.

I'm sorry, Toothfairy, but this is the totally false either-or straw man that people like Michael Pearl adore. There is always a story about non-spankers whose children are completely out of control, and the claim that only hitting will fix the problem.

If you really know parents whose children beat them, do you know for sure that the parents being beaten by their children are non-spankers?

In any case, it's still a false idea that there are only two choices. There are thousands of options between "I have to spank my children" and "my teens control me and the household." Most parents employ dozens of them, daily -- no hitting needed. I see these techniques in action every day.

There is never any reason for even "one slap on the butt" for a small child, and no reason to beat an older child.

If a teen is actually beating their parents, self-defense or avoidance is, obviously, needed in the moment, and then the involvement of the law and possibly medical help.

I can't remotely imagine that having mercenary sex, doing drugs, avoiding coming home, etc., will be stopped by parental hitting.

[Jasmar]

The memory of watching my mother physically discipline my (at the time) 19-year old brother is one of my most disturbing and horrifying childhood memories. My parents thought it was perfectly okay to use corporal punishment as long as we were living at home. I remember my brother--at least a foot taller than my mother--crying and begging her not to make him bend over the bed for his "whooping."

I don't know what my brother learned from that incident--he has some serious interpersonal problems, has never married or had kids, so no opportunity for him to pass on the tradition :roll: --but I can say that for me it only reinforced my understanding that my family was fucked up and my mother was to be feared. All of the beatings I experienced and witnessed, including black eyes, bruises, bloody welts, split lips...only taught me rage and shame and the ability to hide things from my parents. It did not teach me respect or obedience, or godliness.

Ho. Lee. Crap. That's disturbing to read about, much less witness. I'm SOS sorry for what you went through.

I remember the last time my mother tried to shove me up against the wall, when I was 17. Before she could start slapping, I realized I was big as she was, and shoved her back. She never raised a hand to me again. She did, however, continue the verbal and emotional abuse, and still tends to control my sister...who is in her mid-40s.

I wonder if it was easier for come to fight back becuase there was no religious subtext. She actually was rabidly anti-Christian, especially Catholic. So I wasn't messed up by thinking I could go to hell if I fought back.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think part of the problem is that it's very common for dads to go from being dads to being every other weekend visitors. If you get a couple weekends a month, do you want to be the fun parent and let someone else do the disciplining, or do you want to do it yourself and maybe be seen as the mean parent in the short time you have? Going by friends and family, the dads who get every other weekend foist the punishing on to someone else, and the ones who get about equal time are more into all of it, from fun to punishments.

I've found that there is a sink-or-swim period with divorced dads.

Some fight for meaningful parenting time, even if it means more primary parenting than they traditionally did. When they get it, some learn to rise to the occasion. I've had some say to me that now they finally realize how much work is involved, and they have a new appreciation for all that their ex was doing. I had another friend say "you have no idea how hard it is", prompting me to burst out laughing (because yes, I work and care for my kids more than 50% of the time).

Others don't make good use of their time, and tend to drop the time down or drop out altogether.

[2xx1xy1JD]

A 17 and 14 yo are children living with their parents. I've seen my fair share of out of control teens skipping school, having sex with multiple people, or having sex for an item, teens thinking they're grown coming in whenever they feel like and beating on their parents. I'm not talking about a 4yo or a small child. A timeout or one slap on the butt will do at that age. Sorry I will not allow my teenagers to control me or my household.

I've seen my fair share as well - mostly from my child protection cases.

Much of the time, the parents were just as fucked up as the teens. In a few cases, there was a diagnosis behind the teen's behavior (for example, my friend is dealing with impulsive behavior from her foster son with fetal alcohol syndrome). Physical punishment did nothing except trigger some rage and calls to the child protection agency.

Why would a child be beating on a parent? That's not remotely normal behavior. Some of the other things you describe sound like kids being self-destructive and looking to rebel.

If the kids had developed a good relationship with the parents from the start, if they knew deep down that their parents loved them and could be relied upon and always acted out of a genuine concern for their welfare, the odds of seeing this kind of anti-social behavior would go down. When kids have a good attachment to parents, they are more likely to see parents as role models and naturally take on the parents' values.

What's more, when kids do experiment with stuff or go slightly off the rails - because teens sometimes do that - they are less likely to get themselves into really serious trouble and more likely to figure out how to get back on track if they have a secure relationship with their parents. I was the goody two-shoes in my family, but my 2 cousins had their moments - there was a fair amount of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. My aunt was not pleased, but once they got that phase out of their systems, they turned around. Today, both are happily married with children, have great careers, are involved in community organizations and have one very proud (and relieved) mother.

[Toothfairy]

Some teens think they're grown. They could come from a good family and still be out of control. I've seen many teens talk back slap spit , come in whenever they feel like it,and hit their parents. And the parent allows it. The parent allows their teen to control their household. Sometimes physical punishment does well. I will never allow my teenagers to control my household. I've seen too many cases of this. I couple of licks on the butt isn't going to scar them for life. Kids are too spoiled in this generation.

[Toothfairy]

I've seen my fair share as well - mostly from my child protection cases.

Much of the time, the parents were just as fucked up as the teens. In a few cases, there was a diagnosis behind the teen's behavior (for example, my friend is dealing with impulsive behavior from her foster son with fetal alcohol syndrome). Physical punishment did nothing except trigger some rage and calls to the child protection agency.

Why would a child be beating on a parent? That's not remotely normal behavior. Some of the other things you describe sound like kids being self-destructive and looking to rebel.

If the kids had developed a good relationship with the parents from the start, if they knew deep down that their parents loved them and could be relied upon and always acted out of a genuine concern for their welfare, the odds of seeing this kind of anti-social behavior would go down. When kids have a good attachment to parents, they are more likely to see parents as role models and naturally take on the parents' values.

What's more, when kids do experiment with stuff or go slightly off the rails - because teens sometimes do that - they are less likely to get themselves into really serious trouble and more likely to figure out how to get back on track if they have a secure relationship with their parents. I was the goody two-shoes in my family, but my 2 cousins had their moments - there was a fair amount of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. My aunt was not pleased, but once they got that phase out of their systems, they turned around. Today, both are happily married with children, have great careers, are involved in community organizations and have one very proud (and relieved) mother.

kidd can beat on their parents for a number of reasons. They don't have to come from a violent family.

[Toothfairy]

I'm sorry, Toothfairy, but this is the totally false either-or straw man that people like Michael Pearl adore. There is always a story about non-spankers whose children are completely out of control, and the claim that only hitting will fix the problem.

If you really know parents whose children beat them, do you know for sure that the parents being beaten by their children are non-spankers?

In any case, it's still a false idea that there are only two choices. There are thousands of options between "I have to spank my children" and "my teens control me and the household." Most parents employ dozens of them, daily -- no hitting needed. I see these techniques in action every day.

There is never any reason for even "one slap on the butt" for a small child, and no reason to beat an older child.

If a teen is actually beating their parents, self-defense or avoidance is, obviously, needed in the moment, and then the involvement of the law and possibly medical help.

I can't remotely imagine that having mercenary sex, doing drugs, avoiding coming home, etc., will be stopped by parental hitting.

Some kids need discipline. What happens if therapy doesn't work or they won't go?Not one kind of discipline works well for one kid. If a parent keeps taking things away or grounds them or punishes them and the teen's behavior gets worse and out of control then a spanking(whatever you want to call it) sounds like it's needed. I'm the parent, I pay bills not them. And if they want to continue to act grown then let them act grown by telling them to get their own job and get their own house and move out of yours. In my state parents can file a PINS order. I will gladly put a PINS order on my child if their out of control behavior continues.i would rather discipline my child then have the streets or police do it for me.

[2xx1xy1JD]

kidd can beat on their parents for a number of reasons. They don't have to come from a violent family.

Any child who would do that has serious issues. That's just not the normal behavior of a teen who always had a good, strong relationship with their parents and who doesn't have some kind of underlying psychological problem. You've got to figure out WHY the child is acting out. For example, I've had cases where the child acted out precisely because the parent was too demanding, very critical and rejecting. I think that the parent meant well and thought that he was giving discipline, but it just fueled a vicious cycle where the child would screw up, the dad would blow up, and the child would try to get away or smoke up as a result of dad's reaction. The problems virtually disappeared when child went to live with the other parent.

Tell me, how the fuck does inflicting pain on a teen teach them that it's wrong to hurt other people? How does it build a stronger attachment between parent and child? It does the opposite.

I also don't see how inflicting pain on a child teaches them the importance of staying in school, or how it instills any deep career ambition or love of learning. I don't see how it educates a child about exactly what tobacco or drugs can do to your health. I don't see how it teaches a child about all the risks of unsafe sex, or how to make sex safer.

Yes, there's a place for firm discipline. A teen can be told that school is not optional. They can be checked for drugs or alcohol, and told that their rooms may be inspected. They can also be told that everything is a privilege - access to a WiFi password, any phones or other electronics, TV, money, transportation anywhere, etc. In the most extreme cases, a PINS order could be needed (as a last resort).

That sort of discipline can't really teach kids, though. My parents used a lot of Relentless Logic[tm][/tm] on us. Discussion of drugs or tobacco or alcohol generally involved talking about health facts and horribly stories of how people had their lives ruined or died. Have a kid make a life plan for themselves, work on a budget, look up jobs available to high school dropouts vs. college grads, research the effects of drugs or alcohol, etc.

[Firiel]

So, just yesterday, I had someone defend Adrian Peterson to me. I was absolutely floored. This guy wasn't religious or particularly conservative (I don't know the details of his political affiliations, but he seems pretty socially liberal). I mentioned something about it, and he said something about how it was being blown out of proportion. And so I said, "Ummmm... the kid's lower body was bruised and bloodied. How is that okay?" And he just said that that's what happens with a switch. I don't remember if I said verbally or if my face just said, "Yeah, that's the problem." He tried to make a pretty racist argument that all black people in the South discipline that way. Then someone else shut the conversation down, and I let it be shut down (for various, more identifying and contextual reasons I'd rather not share, it was the right decision).

I just couldn't even believe that people in the real world think it's okay to hit a child until he has multiple, bleeding lacerations.

[Howl]

Last night I was thinking about two reality shows, Super Nanny (Jo Frost) and Nanny 911. Super Nanny went to homes where the family was absolutely out of control. She evaluated, stayed awhile, came up with a plan, showed how to implement it and followed up to see how it was implemented. These are worth going back to, to understand how to modify behavior without spanking.

Nanny 911 had a similar format.

[It'sFunToRun]

Some teens think they're grown. They could come from a good family and still be out of control. I've seen many teens talk back slap spit , come in whenever they feel like it,and hit their parents. And the parent allows it. The parent allows their teen to control their household. Sometimes physical punishment does well. I will never allow my teenagers to control my household. I've seen too many cases of this. I couple of licks on the butt isn't going to scar them for life. Kids are too spoiled in this generation.

Adults are too spoiled in this generation! They crash housing markets, make child pornography, injure their children when their meth labs explode (I lived in Arkansas!), and beat their own children because they're too lazy to discipline gently or because they can't control their temper tantrums.

If spanking is soooo helpful as behavior modification, then why don't we just :spank: these people instead of sending them through the justice system (which is also wildly ineffective, but that's another topic)? It would save a lot of taxpayer money. Why does spanking magically stop working when a person turns 18?

[It'sFunToRun]

Some kids need discipline. What happens if therapy doesn't work or they won't go?Not one kind of discipline works well for one kid. If a parent keeps taking things away or grounds them or punishes them and the teen's behavior gets worse and out of control then a spanking(whatever you want to call it) sounds like it's needed. I'm the parent, I pay bills not them. And if they want to continue to act grown then let them act grown by telling them to get their own job and get their own house and move out of yours. In my state parents can file a PINS order. I will gladly put a PINS order on my child if their out of control behavior continues.i would rather discipline my child then have the streets or police do it for me.

And what if the spanking doesn't work and the teen's behavior gets worse? Do you spank harder? What if that doesn't work? Do you beat them to death (that would technically solve the problem) or shoot them, or do you find another solution that doesn't involve hitting? One of the problems with using violence as a punishment is that if it doesn't work you just keep escalating and it can get dangerous.

I'm kinda against all punishment, but lets say that I decide to use grounding on my teen. I ground her for a weekend and she's still naughty. I ground her for a week and she still misbehaves. I totally lose my temper and tell her she's grounded for the whole year. The next day I cool down and realize that I behaved stupidly, then I can take it back and tell her that while I'm disappointed with her behavior, she's only going to be grounded for a week and a half. If I had decided to use spanking, I wouldn't be able to take back hitting a child too hard or too many times. I wouldn't be able to take back missing a teen's buttocks when I swung that paddle as hard as I could and accidentally shattered her tailbone. Violence is dangerous.

I had a friend who worked as a switch (both submissive and dominant) at a BDSM dungeon. Before being able to dom, she had to do an internship (several weeks) with an experienced dom and pass a proficiency test. They don't just let anyone come in and start beating on a customer, because that would be dangerous!