The "food stamp fridge"

[Loveday]

I just wandered in to grump about the fact that meat went up again in my area.

I went to the store a couple of days ago to buy some veggies for a new chili recipe I want to try. I needed two pounds of ground beef, but wanted to make it healthier, so I thought I'd grab the turkey instead. $7.00 for two pounds! It's never been that high before. :(

I wound up settling for some frozen roasted chicken in my freezer, needed to use up some stuff anyway. Next time I'll hit Aldi's for the meat.

:? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently meat, especially beef, is going to skyrocket in price by the end of the year. I'd been reading about it in the news here and there, and then a cousin who works for the military commissary here told me to expect things like ground beef to possibly double in price in the next few months. Chicken and turkey will go up, too, though not as much as beef. So, whenever I see a halfway decent price on pot roasts or ground beef, I've been grabbing an extra package or two and popping it into the freezer. And I've told my family to start expecting more and more meatless meals in future as well, which is going to be hard on us (though much healthier, I know!) as we're serious carnivores. :embarrassed:

[Rescinded and Mended]

Oh no! My latest project has been to empty and reorganize my freezer, so I'll probably start prioritizing and buying some meat at Aldi's for freezing. I can get 2-pound pot roasts there for around $5.00.

There are two local grocery stores in my area that offer free 25-pound turkeys if you spend $150 in groceries around the holidays. I'm planning to take advantage of those offers, as well.

My son probably wouldn't mind going meatless on a regular basis. You make anything that has lots of cheese in it, he becomes a ravenous chowhound. :lol:

[Cartmann99]

There are two local grocery stores in my area that offer free 25-pound turkeys if you spend $150 in groceries around the holidays. I'm planning to take advantage of those offers, as well.

One of our local grocery stores usually puts whole turkey breasts on a BOGOF sale in October. My husband bought us a small, (5 cubic foot) used, manual defrost freezer on Ebay a few years back. It really comes in handy at times like this and only costs us about $3 a month in electricity. :)

Also, it's almost time for baking supplies ( flour, sugar, chocolate chips, etc.) to go on sale for all the Thanksgiving/Christmas baking. :drool:

[Rescinded and Mended]

Smart! Always a good idea to buy and freeze ahead - my Christmas gift last year was the freezer we have in our garage right now. It also costs us around $3 a month extra for the electricity, but it's worth its weight in gold. I have been saving so much on my food bills since we bought it.

[Lillybee]

I am a retired welfare worker. I might have been a bad eligibility worker because I tended to give my clients the benefit of the doubt.

When I was working, there was a nasty food stamp rule called ABAWD (able bodied adult without dependents). This rule said that ABAWD's could only receive food stamps for three months in a three year period. Workers had to trace clients ABAWD months from different counties and states. It was a pain. The ABAWD rules went away when the latest recession started but I understand that Congress is trying to reinstate those rules. The only funny thing that I took out of this is that my best friend at work adopted a feral adolescent cat that lived under our building and she named him ABAWD.

[patsymae]

Interesting info on who needs food stamps (aside from of course, families of the military personnel we value so highly): salon.com/2014/09/21/professors_on_food_stamps_the_shocking_true_story_of_academia_in_2014/

[itsnotmeitsu]

I don't like the meme and I don't like when people get on people with foodstamps. We were very close to being in that situation right after my daughter was born because my husband's work was bad, I had a lot of medical bills, and I just couldn't make my paycheck stretch. My husband wouldn't let me go to the food pantry, and, fortunately, things got better in my life to where we can eat better, but I don't grudge anyone food. My mom was incredulous that I didn't tell her it was that bad, but I was trying to make it on my own. And I would never stop to say something about someone using foodstamps. We pay into that, why is it not OK to use it to feed our children? Being able to feed your child is a human right, not a luxury. And, when I've gotten close to making a comment, I stop and say a little prayer of gratitude that I have enough work that I can put food on our table. Sometimes I think people are so caught up in complaining about what they don't have that they forget to be appreciative for what they do have.

[RosyDaisy]

As a Christian, I feel it is my duty to help those in need. As a Christian, it is not up to me to decide who is worthy of receiving help. That would be judging, and passing judgement is for God alone. How can fundies say they want America to be Christian nation and not follow Christ's examples? I just don't get it. Love they neighbor has no conditions attached to it.

Taking religion out of the equation....how can any human being not want to help those in need? What causes people to have such hard hearts? How can people just sit idly by while others are suffering? I just don't get it. I really don't. All I hear are lame-ass excuses.

[thoughtful]

I've heard crap about the supposedly undeserving poor all my life -- it was always bullshit, and always came from the biggest blowhards I knew (usually the wealthiest, as well). If the fridge on the left truly represented that of someone getting government assistance (which I doubt), I'd be filled with joy that they were getting the help they needed.

As ever, my filled-with-old-movies-and-dogs brain takes over when wanting to shoot down the meme with humor.

The fridge on the right looks, to me, like the stereotype of the wealthy, wild-living bachelor (who, of course, needs our heroine for a wife) in old movies. Y'know, she looks in there and makes some comment about his having only a jar of olives, a dry leftover sandwich, and 5 bottles of wine, so we know he Needs a Good Woman. :D

And, just for silliness and to confuse the issue, I'd love to take that meme and tack on a third pic, of my dog's freezer.

What, your dog doesn't have a freezer? :D

I'm one of those crazy raw-feeding dog owners. Getting parts that humans rarely use for themselves, and so are mostly available in bulk (30-40 lb. boxes) from butchers and processors, makes it affordable. So, I have a small freezer just for my dog's meat.

[BrownieMomma]

As a Christian, I feel it is my duty to help those in need. As a Christian, it is not up to me to decide who is worthy of receiving help. That would be judging, and passing judgement is for God alone. How can fundies say they want America to be Christian nation and not follow Christ's examples? I just don't get it. Love they neighbor has no conditions attached to it.

Taking religion out of the equation....how can any human being not want to help those in need? What causes people to have such hard hearts? How can people just sit idly by while others are suffering? I just don't get it. I really don't. All I hear are lame-ass excuses.

IMO there is a difference between those needing help and those who refuse to do anything to better their plight because they feel it is owed to them.

From about 2004-2012, I lived in a low-income housing community. It wasn't a project. Someone on the lease had to have a job and not be a full-time student. I was a full-student and my mom lived with me, she was retired from teaching public school. This qualified us.

It was just really agonizing at how many of my neighbors would quit work as soon as they moved in, take every government benefit possible, and then do nothing. Not find a job, not get training or education, not care about their kid's education... being around people like that zaps out sympathy for their plight.

I've had women tell me they need another baby so they can get more benefits. I've had people tell me white people owe it to them because of slavery. I've had people tell me they are supposed to sign up for job training but they just aren't going to do it.

These people weren't suffering. They were making entitled choices. Not every on food stamps had a husband abandon them and went back to school to get a better job. Like me. I am still friends with some people in that neighborhood and I am back there twice a week to take one of the girls to church with us. It hasn't changed much.

And let me enlighten you on one more aspect of it. Those kids there, they don't get much of an education. Oh they attend the same elementary school as my kids, but their parents don't give a flying damn and many of these get passed from grade to grade. Where's the motivation for the children to achieve, to work, to make an effort?

So they are likely to become welfare recipients when they are adults.

Yes, I do feel sympathy for a young mother with a few kids and the father fails to support. I lose that sympathy when she goes on to have two or three more kids with two or three more men, won't get a job, etc. Does that make me hard-hearted and judgmental? oh well.

[Firiel]

IMO there is a difference between those needing help and those who refuse to do anything to better their plight because they feel it is owed to them.

From about 2004-2012, I lived in a low-income housing community. It wasn't a project. Someone on the lease had to have a job and not be a full-time student. I was a full-student and my mom lived with me, she was retired from teaching public school. This qualified us.

It was just really agonizing at how many of my neighbors would quit work as soon as they moved in, take every government benefit possible, and then do nothing. Not find a job, not get training or education, not care about their kid's education... being around people like that zaps out sympathy for their plight.

I've had women tell me they need another baby so they can get more benefits. I've had people tell me white people owe it to them because of slavery. I've had people tell me they are supposed to sign up for job training but they just aren't going to do it.

These people weren't suffering. They were making entitled choices. Not every on food stamps had a husband abandon them and went back to school to get a better job. Like me. I am still friends with some people in that neighborhood and I am back there twice a week to take one of the girls to church with us. It hasn't changed much.

And let me enlighten you on one more aspect of it. Those kids there, they don't get much of an education. Oh they attend the same elementary school as my kids, but their parents don't give a flying damn and many of these get passed from grade to grade. Where's the motivation for the children to achieve, to work, to make an effort?

So they are likely to become welfare recipients when they are adults.

Yes, I do feel sympathy for a young mother with a few kids and the father fails to support. I lose that sympathy when she goes on to have two or three more kids with two or three more men, won't get a job, etc. Does that make me hard-hearted and judgmental? oh well.

But the thing is... for every person mooching off the system (and those people DO exist-- I just don't think you can tell who it is unless you know a person fairly well), there is some rich person who splurges not on a bag of chips but on a $100,000 car. Never mind that $100,000 could provide job training for several poor (but hard-working) people who want to better their lives and get off of government assistance. Yet people rarely judge their decisions because they "earned" their money (often by working the right type of job-- they are an executive as opposed to a janitor but might not even work more hours).

I want to avoid judging anyone for their financial decisions if I am not close to a situation, but I don't see how spending money irresponsibly/frivolously is any better if you are rich than if you are poor. Even if you are rich, the money spent on large purchases could go to someone else and take a load off of governmental assistance.

[thoughtful]

BrownieMomma, all you have to do is read the threads here about the Maxwells, Rodrigueses, Bateses, Lauren Fisher, John Shrader, the Andersons (and I'm sure I'm missing a lot on my list) to get an idea of what most people here, including those who are disgusted by the "food stamp fridge" meme, think of those who grift any public system or live on others' charity without an attempt at real work.

You see, those are individuals, and we know from their blogs that even what they proudly claim to be doing is irresponsible. We are being specific, not general, and those specific people deserve scorn.

Your post smacks so of knee-jerk stereotypes that I have a hard time taking it seriously. But, even giving you the benefit of the doubt, even if every word is true, if you knew some people who did that, and know for sure they had lots of other choices, I can understand your dismay at those specific people.

But it doesn't change my general opinion of welfare. Because it doesn't mean that everyone does that, that social services shouldn't exist, or that the idiotic meme represents reality for most people.

[snuggles911]

I live in a rural town where 49 percent of the population is eligible for food stamps. I have no idea how many people actual apply for them, but I'm sure the number is growing given that the local economy is awful and food prices have soared in recent years.

I see people use their EBT cards all of the time and there's no "typical" food stamp cart. I have a friend who is quiverful with four kids ages seven and younger and very poor. She is one of the most resourceful woman I know. In the spring she uses some of her food stamp money to purchase vegetable starts (it's allowed in our state) and plants a garden even though she lives in a trailer on very little land.

We don't live near an Aldis or even a Costco, but she buys whole foods in bulk, cooks nearly everything from scratch, and even makes cheese from the surplus milk she gets from WIC. She is not wasting taxpayer money, that's for certain.

Of course I also see people using EBT cards to pay for glow-in-the-dark faux fruit juice and carts full of processed unhealthy food. At least their families are eating something rather than going hungry.

[moodygirl86]

IMO there is a difference between those needing help and those who refuse to do anything to better their plight because they feel it is owed to them.

From about 2004-2012, I lived in a low-income housing community. It wasn't a project. Someone on the lease had to have a job and not be a full-time student. I was a full-student and my mom lived with me, she was retired from teaching public school. This qualified us.

It was just really agonizing at how many of my neighbors would quit work as soon as they moved in, take every government benefit possible, and then do nothing. Not find a job, not get training or education, not care about their kid's education... being around people like that zaps out sympathy for their plight.

I've had women tell me they need another baby so they can get more benefits. I've had people tell me white people owe it to them because of slavery. I've had people tell me they are supposed to sign up for job training but they just aren't going to do it.

These people weren't suffering. They were making entitled choices. Not every on food stamps had a husband abandon them and went back to school to get a better job. Like me. I am still friends with some people in that neighborhood and I am back there twice a week to take one of the girls to church with us. It hasn't changed much.

And let me enlighten you on one more aspect of it. Those kids there, they don't get much of an education. Oh they attend the same elementary school as my kids, but their parents don't give a flying damn and many of these get passed from grade to grade. Where's the motivation for the children to achieve, to work, to make an effort?

So they are likely to become welfare recipients when they are adults.

Yes, I do feel sympathy for a young mother with a few kids and the father fails to support. I lose that sympathy when she goes on to have two or three more kids with two or three more men, won't get a job, etc. Does that make me hard-hearted and judgmental? oh well.

BrownieMomma, nobody's disputing that people you describe do exist. BUT we can't assume, just from a minority (because it IS a minority) that everyone in the same situation is like that. There will never be a foolproof way of making sure the system is never abused at all, not without punishing the genuine welfare recipients. A 2012 UK study (can't find it at the moment) showed that 99% of Jobseekers Allowance claims were genuine. Should those 99% be punished because 1% may or may not be taking the piss?

[Lillybee]

One of the clients that I had was a certified school teacher who worked for a Christian school. This school paid her 1200 a month for the months that she worked and nothing for the summer. Most people who get a seasonal lay-off qualify for unemployment benefits but the school was a non profit and was exempt from paying into UIB. I feel that this woman was taken advantage by the good Christians who ran the school and expected the people of California to pick up the slack.

[whoviana]

It is downright scary how the food prices in the so called developed countries are skyrocketing.

The price of pretty much everything you need is going higher and higher and it's scary.

Decent food and water are absolute necessities. It is difficult to find a healthy snack or a good meal anywhere. All you can buy is soda and sugary/processed cr*p.

We are at a point in our lives where we are approaching the age where people usually settle down.

I don't think it's normal for basic foods like good, unprocessed meat and quality vegetables to be that horribly expensive. And, I also want to avoid living on industrially canned, processed, nutritionless, chemically treated foods.

Much as I love my comfort, I consider myself a reasonable person.

I would like to live somewhere like this, currently, where people still grow food.

I don't care if it has to be an agricultural state that people like to spew crap about - those folks will always have food on the table! You can't eat fancy bags, not even deep fried with hot sauce.

I don't want to live anywhere where entire towns' food supply comes from one or two 'Marts.

I'm not sure if we or anyone in any developed countries will ever have to, but you can learn to live without electricity. You can learn to use fireplaces to heat up your house. You can learn to live without TV. You can give up your gadgets and fancy clothes easily once push comes to shove.

But food and clean water?

How long can one live off ramen noodles and doughnuts before they get the scorbut? Or any malnutrition-related diseases? Especially with children! I know that sounds a little extreme but I want to take all things into consideration before settling down somewhere.

I do wish I was born 50 or a hundred years earlier. But what can I do about it?

All we can do is, choose a "developing", agricultural country or state, live in a rural area where people in general, grow food.

Slightly off topic but not entirely... I remember eating KFC every one in a while, I loved their juicy drumsticks. Then suddenly, and in all the countries I've been so far... the drumsticks are gone.

What you get in a box full of KFC are totally random, boney, sometimes even feathery chunks of the chicken. There is no rhyme and reason anymore as to how they carve their darned chickens. You get ribs, neck, more ribs with a lot of breading and a lot of bones, and if you are lucky, some meat from the back of the chicken. But they still advertise with drumsticks!

Last week we dropped by McD' for the fish burger (first country ever to NOT carry fish burgers at McD...) and some pie, I had a craving for it. They sell a very limited range of burgers... and they advertised drumsticks. Heck, let's get some drumsticks. Guess what! We got the same random, chopped up, boney pieces with the ribcage like at KFC. We couldn't eat it. I don't know what causes those random cravings for KFC or McD, but they are gone, now everytime we pass by them... all that comes to mind is breaded chicken-ribcages.

What I've been meaning to say is... when did it become for western countries and "western" chain restaurants a luxury to serve drumsticks?! We're not talking oysters on the half shell. We're talking chicken thighs! We normally serve meaty parts of the chicken breaded, if it's chopped up, and the rest goes into the soup. Like the neck, liver, etc, with a lot of vegetables. Have chicken thighs become a luxury? That is Ukraine under the Stalin era kind of scary.

Where I'm intended to be going with this rant is, that somewhere along the line, within my relatively short lifetime, basic foods have become a luxury, and people struggle and strive to get basic food on the table. They have to stretch their dollars really far and buy extra fridges, stack up on coupons, think MONTHS ahead, to be able to provide decent food for their families.

And we still don't know how much worse it can get!

All I know is, that I'm lready preparing myself mentally for a huge change for the sake of my (future) family's well-being.

I'm going to have to overcome my irrational fear of dirt, and creatures with too many or no legs. (Spanish slugs, yuck.) Somewhere along the line I will want to move out from the residential area, into a small town, into a house with a garden. Not too far from my SO's workplace, and mine once I get one, and a decent hospital, but outside the city. This decision will be made until the end of next year.

Much as I enjoy living in large cities sometimes, I have already set my priorities straight.

I want beef and chicken, non-industrial eggs, vegetables, spices and herbs to be available. I admire people that grow food. Either for a living or for just themselves I don't care, I admire them. It will be a huge change in our lifestyle, but I want to become one that knows how to grow food, even if it's just our potato, cabbage, onion or apple supply.

I'm fairly certain I don't ever want to be living anywhere else but agricultural places. In the developed countries, as well as certain EU countries, people rely on industrial food. And even cra* food prices are going up. It's scary how much a few stripes of bacon or ham can cost you. For a kg of ham, you can buy half a veal, chopped, ready-to-freeze. And food is an absolute necessity, food and water first, everything else comes after these two. I didn't even mention how expensive bottled water is. It is more expensive than sugary beverages. How? How is pure water (not even EVian or Pellegrino) more expensive than water PLUS sugar plus coloring, plus flavors, plus other additives? It's like, the whole world has turned upside down.

It used to be the way around: doughnuts and other stuff and soda were considered rare treats. And, you "had to" stick with your meat and potatoes and tea or water. Of course everyone craved sweets back then, and had happy outbursts when offered soda. Now it's the way around and it's very very wrong since only nutritionless, sugary, colored, flavored stuff is easily available and affordable.

I'm not very happy with where this world is going.

Sorry for the lengthy post, there has been a lot on my mind lately. And I've been dealing with a lot of doubts, but the fog is already lifting. And I can see clearer and clearer every day.

I don't want the whole world to become a place where you must live on doughnuts and 99c burgers and soda OR make enormous sacrifices for your basic meat and potatoes.

Food does grow on trees. Unlike money and those irrational foodstamps that only allow you to buy the items that are more pricey. What's the point of foodstamps, then?

For now, all I know is, that I rather give up on anything else, but the reasonably priced, attainable and good food. Everything else comes after this. Sorry for the long-winded post again. Whew.

[ViolaSebastian]

I grew up in a very agricultural area in what's referred to as the breadbasket of America. For me, I started to notice things change when farms moved from being family-owned farms to giant, industrial farms. I'll never understand the water thing, though--especially when most of that water is just the stuff you'd get out of the tap.

[whoviana]

I grew up in a very agricultural area in what's referred to as the breadbasket of America. For me, I started to notice things change when farms moved from being family-owned farms to giant, industrial farms. I'll never understand the water thing, though--especially when most of that water is just the stuff you'd get out of the tap.

I'm really sorry to read that. It's totally unfair. As the word suggests, bread basket is the motor of the kitchen, and the kitchen is the motor of the entire household. Once the bread basket goes empty or sour, what do you do?!

I'm very much aware of the bolded part. I've seen a documentary on how growing food is being industrialized, and how farmers can't quit since they are being forced to upgrade their tools and how much debt they are in in general, how their existence is misery instead of joy. Farming is a hard job, but some people really did choose that job because that's what they had grown up in, and they had a love for the land. And one day, all that changed.

There are still bread-basket or fruit-basket countries in this world where people grow food from the fat of the land. But what if we choose a place, settle down, settle in, and slowly the industrial farming business will poison our farmers too? I'd hate to see turn everything into slavery, misery, crap. And I don't wanna spend my life running. All I know is, that I was born in a very wrong era, and time is slowly running out for us, too, no matter how carefully we select the place we'd want to spend the rest of our lives, and , I'd hate to see everything turn in to crap for our future kids, too.

As to the water, I prefer sparkling water. It doesn't have to be "spring water" or whatever they call it. I guess we'll just buy a canister for the home, fill it up, add gas and change those gas capsules every time we have to refill the canister. That can be done. Still don't understand how all those fancy soda pops and even some energy drinks! are cheaper than pure water. I... I don't get it, it's like we are encouraged to ignore water and drink cr*p. Doesn't work on me tho', I can't stand the taste of juice cocktails and other sugary things.

[lawlifelgbt]

I have to remember that we need to buy frozen chicken and ground turkey for the freezer since prices will go up.

Also, OT, but today my wife had something similar to the food stamp shaming happen today. We were at Target, and I grabbed milk and cat food while she waited at the pharmacy. When I got the things, I went to go stand by here, a little ways away so I wouldn't block the line. My wife is on Medicaid under the expansion rules and just enrolled recently. She was FINALLY able to afford to see a doctor today for a blood panel, getting back on antidepressants, and dealing with plantar faciitis so severe that she gets stabbing pains in her feet and can barely stand for the five minutes it takes to actively cook (not have things in oven, etc.), and she can't work out, which she wants to do to help her weight. She got two prescriptions that probably cost $2 or less to make- generics, and just Prozac and ibuprofen, for god's sake- and didn't have to pay for them. However, since she has a new card and new info to enter at the pharmacy, the techs were confused and working on entering it (finicky system, new team member). So in this process, she had her card out and had to say maybe once or twice that it was the Medicaid expansion insurance. And she was really grateful to be able to get much-needed medicine for free, and told me so.

This dude is in line behind her and starts encroaching on her space and mumbled something about "That came from my taxes, you know. It's not free. You're welcome." She didn't hear, but I have above-average hearing (I can tell because I'm very sensitive to noises overall, and can hear more of a pitch range) and I did. I'm really shy, but I will defend my wife to the last, so I said "That's my wife you're insulting, sir." He said, "Well, it's not my job to pay for others." This, after finding out that my parents terminated my health insurance through them even though I'm under the age limit, because oh my god, they don't agree with how I live my life, made me really angry. I mean, I may need to go on the same programs now, and I don't want judgment.

So I squared my shoulders, stared at him, and said "A lot of people who use these programs will get too sick to work and afford their own insurance if they have to go without it for a while. And people will be disabled or die without medicines. Do you WANT my wife to kill herself because she's got untreated depression or be unable to walk due to plantar faciitis? Do you WANT me to have an asthma attack and die from hypoxia because I can't afford a generic inhaler that cost $4 to make? Well, maybe you do, because you probably hate gay people like us to boot."

Yes, I overreacted, but it summed up why I'm a liberal really well. I don't want people to be sick or die from lack of care or food or a place to live.

[whoviana]

This wasn't an overreaction. You asked him very valid questions. You underreacted (I would have punched him in the face and thrown four dollars on him while stepping over him). You handled the situation like the "bigger person". I envy your ability to control yourself. You remind me of my SO, I always let him handle dodgy situations because he is calm and reasonable. Sorry you guys had to deal with that a**hat! :disgust:

[moodygirl86]

I have to remember that we need to buy frozen chicken and ground turkey for the freezer since prices will go up.

Also, OT, but today my wife had something similar to the food stamp shaming happen today. We were at Target, and I grabbed milk and cat food while she waited at the pharmacy. When I got the things, I went to go stand by here, a little ways away so I wouldn't block the line. My wife is on Medicaid under the expansion rules and just enrolled recently. She was FINALLY able to afford to see a doctor today for a blood panel, getting back on antidepressants, and dealing with plantar faciitis so severe that she gets stabbing pains in her feet and can barely stand for the five minutes it takes to actively cook (not have things in oven, etc.), and she can't work out, which she wants to do to help her weight. She got two prescriptions that probably cost $2 or less to make- generics, and just Prozac and ibuprofen, for god's sake- and didn't have to pay for them. However, since she has a new card and new info to enter at the pharmacy, the techs were confused and working on entering it (finicky system, new team member). So in this process, she had her card out and had to say maybe once or twice that it was the Medicaid expansion insurance. And she was really grateful to be able to get much-needed medicine for free, and told me so.

This dude is in line behind her and starts encroaching on her space and mumbled something about "That came from my taxes, you know. It's not free. You're welcome." She didn't hear, but I have above-average hearing (I can tell because I'm very sensitive to noises overall, and can hear more of a pitch range) and I did. I'm really shy, but I will defend my wife to the last, so I said "That's my wife you're insulting, sir." He said, "Well, it's not my job to pay for others." This, after finding out that my parents terminated my health insurance through them even though I'm under the age limit, because oh my god, they don't agree with how I live my life, made me really angry. I mean, I may need to go on the same programs now, and I don't want judgment.

So I squared my shoulders, stared at him, and said "A lot of people who use these programs will get too sick to work and afford their own insurance if they have to go without it for a while. And people will be disabled or die without medicines. Do you WANT my wife to kill herself because she's got untreated depression or be unable to walk due to plantar faciitis? Do you WANT me to have an asthma attack and die from hypoxia because I can't afford a generic inhaler that cost $4 to make? Well, maybe you do, because you probably hate gay people like us to boot."

Yes, I overreacted, but it summed up why I'm a liberal really well. I don't want people to be sick or die from lack of care or food or a place to live.

You didn't overreact at all! If anything, you should have explained to him that we all have a basic duty to our fellow citizens, and that's what taxes are for. He's not paying for you out of his own pocket. He was out of line for butting into your business and judging you when he doesn't know you or your wife.

I'm really sorry you had to deal with that prick, but you should be proud for standing up to him. I don't know how to say this without sounding patronising, but I'm proud of you.

[BrownieMomma]

You don't have to believe me. I know you don't want to, because that then kills your own pet theories and beliefs.

There's nothing kneejerk about what I know. I also can read and comprehend. I lived in the ghetto for a long time because I am a single mother with no support from my ex-husband. He now owes me over 80k in child support arrears and the original order has never changed because he can never be found to show in court.

I went back to school because I was not going to rely on marriage to support myself and my children. I planned to work. I actually started working a paying job at a burger joing when I was 14 and worked ever since then, except for a few years when I worked from home and took care of young children.

If I'm gonna work, might as well make better money. Secretaries have stressful jobs and make terrible money. So back to school.

It took seven years to finish a bachelor's degree. Another year or two to get stable enough to move out of the ghetto.

I am an observant person. I am aware of social issues. One of my pet peeves is this entitled attitude of how the government and white people owe black people, and yes, more than one black person has expressed to me that they are "owed" because some black people came to America in chains. This has varied from my otherwise well-educated close friend from high school to my ghetto neighbor about four years ago. Oh for reference, I'm now 50.

This is passed down culturally. These are the same people who don't give a flying damn about education. Their children have the same doors open - the same exact classroom. Yet, my kids, in elementary school, at the predominantly black then Mexican elementary school, had little to no outside homework or school projects required of them because too many of the children were so little supported at home there was no point.

There is social injustice. I have seen it in my career job since graduating. The cost of pursuing welfare fraud is more than the benefit. Yes, I get it. I agree. That doesn't change that more than 1% LOL which you totally made up that number, are not actually doing anything to take care of themselves or improve their lot in life.

Oh I know there's no point in wasting my emotional energy worrying about what food stamp recipients are buying. Been there, done that. Yep, I bought my kids coke and popcorn for Fri night movies, which I usually rented the DVD from the library for free. Now that I'm working, I am able to take my kids to the movies, which we did last Fri night, at the local university, for a reduced price to see a movie that came out earlier, and for which we bought a refreshment pack for $2 - soda, candy bar, small bag of popcorn.

OH I know that someone might be driving a fancy car or living in a big house because they had a different life before they had to get food stamps. I know secondhand Polo's still have the Ralph Lauren logo. So I don't expend anything on it but please don't romanticize the situation either. Some people really are doing the best they can, but some aren't.

[thoughtful]

You seem to be addressing several people at once, so I will try to answer what I think was in response to what I said.

You don't have to believe me. I know you don't want to, because that then kills your own pet theories and beliefs.

You are wrong. The combination of how you write, what you wrote, and just general "it's the Internet -- anybody could be some dude in his parents' basement" common sense, made me reserve judgment about what you wrote. Not that it matters, since, even if true, it doesn't really make your point.

I do lean liberal in my philosophy - if that's what you are implying above, no problem. But that doesn't mean I cling to my theories in the face of reality, because I also lean logical. :D

Just as I can't imagine assuming that only the people I have met represent all of humanity, I can't imagine that the people I have met from a particular group represent everyone in that group. Doing that is a form of bigotry.

So, I repeat -- if what you wrote was true, it doesn't change a thing. If you met 20 families like that, even if you met 1000, you can't say for sure that they represent everyone receiving benefits (or, everyone with brown skin receiving benefits, since that seems to be your focus). It doesn't make the fridge meme realistic or universal.

My spidey sense tells me that there is a chance that your punch line will be that you are not white, therefore all of what you said is somehow free of prejudice.

Nope.

[Coco]

whoviana, i hope you find your place in the country! Have you ever seen the Lehman's site? They sell a lot of non-electric and small farm equipment. And they have Berkey water filters. We have one, it's great. The store is based in the Amish area of Pennsylvania, and they also sell a lot of how-to books for people who are just starting out on the journey to self-sufficient living.

i agree with thoughtful's post. Even if some families are taking advantage and have an entitlement attitude because of the past, the kids are still getting fed. They're still in school. They're still getting medical and preventative care. In the long run it's okay because the educational opportunities are still there in front of them for the taking. The kids have nutrition available to help them be strong enough to learn. One of my best friends became a teacher and she works in a school like BrownieMomma described. My friend has been able to inspire a lot of the kids to love reading. I don't know how long her enthusiasm will hold out if she's up against years of kids coming from an ingrained lack of interest, but for now she's making a difference in those particular students' lives, and that will last those kids their entire lifetimes. We've all heard stories about how one amazing teacher turned kids' lives around, and she's doing that.

When my hubby and i were on food stamps it was tempting to give up trying to improve our situation, and stay below the limits so that we could continue to qualify. so i understand that mentality first hand. It would have been even more tempting if we were facing subtle discrimination on every side. But even when people intentionally stay poor enough to get free things, society should acknowledge that the benefits are used for things that move the economy forward one way or another. In our state, tax returns are acceptable forms of savings if they're used within a year. That let us make repairs on our house, maintain our vehicle, and splurge on Christmas gifts while still qualifying for benefits. The real tragedy is the people at the top who want to take that purchasing power away from the poor. Being able to buy food for the children and maybe splurge on a phone or a manicure is going to go a long way to keeping the peace. If the rich in their bubble want to pass laws that take away these basic human rights to eat and do little things to enjoy life, despite being used wrongly by some, they're going to have a rude awakening when things get ugly. The best part about living in modern times is that it all works together. The poor have enough of a voice not to be completely squashed by the rich. The rewards of being rich are obvious enough to make most people want to get out of poverty. What these people at the top aren't realizing is that the old economy before welfare depended on exploiting poor people and keeping them down. The poor suffered tremendously. That would result in anarchy today.

[moodygirl86]

I know that someone might be driving a fancy car or living in a big house because they had a different life before they had to get food stamps. I know secondhand Polo's still have the Ralph Lauren logo. So I don't expend anything on it but please don't romanticize the situation either. Some people really are doing the best they can, but some aren't.

To be fair, I haven't seen anyone on this thread romanticising anything? Like I said, I'm not disbelieving you that you PERSONALLY have met people who fit that stereotype and think they are paradoxically better off poor. But all any of us have said is that each person receiving welfare is an individual and should be treated as such, because it's not fair or helpful to make generalisations based on the fact that they are claiming welfare.

To look at it another way, some people in work abuse privileges/advantages in their jobs. But we don't generally tar every working person with the same brush, do we? OK, many bosses do think the worst of their staff and may be able to get away with treating them like shit based on this depending what type of company it is. I've had bosses like that myself. But I have never felt looked down upon or judged by society in general when I've told someone my occupation. Whereas, telling someone "Oh I'm on the dole at the moment because there's not much work available" will result in an "anti-benefits scrounger" rant and how unfair it is that they're a hard working taxpayer, blah blah blah. Quickly followed by the "I-didn't-mean-you" treatment when they realise I might be upset by that.

So it's not a case of not "wanting" to believe you. You're sharing your experience, well, everyone else on this thread is sharing theirs. It might be worth remembering that the right-wing stereotypes probably just seem more prevalent than they are because they're the more blatantly obvious example. Plenty of people get help and you'd never know about it, precisely because this kind of stigma makes them keep quiet about it. Which is plain wrong in itself, isn't it?

I worked consistently from the age of 16, for five years. Then at 21, in 2008, I was made redundant at the start of the credit crunch. I had to claim Jobseekers' for the first time in my life and was appalled by how rude some Jobcentre staff seem to feel free to treat anyone who walks through their doors. Luckily, I met quite a few decent advisers there too, probably because people were starting to lose jobs en masse and they recognised that just being out of work didn't make you scum. I saw people in that Jobcentre reduced to tears by some of the nasty bastards who worked there, and what's more they seemed to enjoy it as a power trip. I resolved around that time that I would NEVER apologise for the fact that there are hardly any jobs, and that all I can EVER do is my best. And that even if I felt down/vulnerable/frustrated I would never show it. I've had three full time jobs in that time (all fixed term contracts which ran out) and various temp assignments, which means that since 2008 I have signed on and off more times than I care to count. But the nice thing about that is most of the staff in my Jobcentre know me and that I want to work and I'll take whatever I can get. I do meet the odd jobsworth but because I hold my head up and don't let them treat me as though I've done something wrong, even those types soon back off me, because they know I won't stand for any crap. I'm not afraid to complain to management if I'm treated badly, especially when they've got notices up stating they won't tolerate abuse from claimants. I agree, and believe that should work both ways.

And you're right that some people don't want to work. I would say that given the way some places treat you, that's not so daft! I've mentioned how unhelpful and rude some employers can be to jobseekers, also my own personal experiences on FreeJinger of workplace bullying by management (thankfully rare in my working life so far) but when it happens it really does a number on you. I faked confidence to get through, but had to walk out in the end. I lasted about two months before I decided enough was enough. My social life suffered because I was getting too depressed to see my friends. It was also starting to make me physically ill - I was waking up every morning with that horrible sick feeling in the pit of the stomach, and leaving work with a headache every afternoon from the strain of pretending I wasn't bothered. That headache magically disappeared the day I'd had enough of her abuse and told her where to stick her stupid job. And in a shitty economic climate, lots of employers worldwide believe they can get away with this. Frankly, even if someone IS trying to avoid work, I can't say I blame them.