Supreme Court Sides With Hobby Lobby MERGE

[ark]

From what I've read it is not all forms of birth control they are objecting to, but only those they view as harming implantation (like plan B).

[Mecca]

I just have to do a quick Monday rant. Well, not really quick, but whatever. I knew this was coming judging from past rulings from this court, but I was really hoping I would be wrong. Guess not.

I can honestly say after studying the law, this Roberts led Supreme Court will go down, in my opinion, as one of the worst courts in legal history. We are going backwards in many of their rulings. We should all be alarmed that they continually allow corporations to have the same rights, if not more, than you and me. If you take no issue with this decision, God help you because that is NOT how the Constitution should be used.

Unfreakingbelievable that in 2014 the rights of the Corporations supersedes the right of an individual woman. Our benefits and rights were severely damaged today. What is next? Ever heard of slippery slope? Anyone? Well, we got one today and then some.

I hope that the idiots that are cheering for this company and the decision today realize when they buy products from this company, they are supporting a company that buys products from a place that uses child labor and abortion to curb population, plus HL invested in abortion drugs. If these same people dare call themselves a pro-lifer and then shop there, they would be big fucking hypocrites.

I think many fail to understand the seriousness of today's ruling judging by what I am reading. It protects no one. Be careful what you wish for conservatives. There will be a day when your employer's religious views will not agree with your own and today the Supreme Court allowed them to invade your privacy and make decisions for you. Enjoy!

[louisa05]

I just have to do a quick Monday rant. Well, not really quick, but whatever. I knew this was coming judging from past rulings from this court, but I was really hoping I would be wrong. Guess not.

I can honestly say after studying the law, this Roberts led Supreme Court will go down, in my opinion, as one of the worst courts in legal history. We are going backwards in many of their rulings. We should all be alarmed that they continually allow corporations to have the same rights, if not more, than you and me. If you take no issue with this decision, God help you because that is NOT how the Constitution should be used.

Unfreakingbelievable that in 2014 the rights of the Corporations supersedes the right of an individual woman. Our benefits and rights were severely damaged today. What is next? Ever heard of slippery slope? Anyone? Well, we got one today and then some.

I hope that the idiots that are cheering for this company and the decision today realize when they buy products from this company, they are supporting a company that buys products from a place that uses child labor and abortion to curb population, plus HL invested in abortion drugs. If these same people dare call themselves a pro-lifer and then shop there, they would be big fucking hypocrites.

I think many fail to understand the seriousness of today's ruling judging by what I am reading. It protects no one. Be careful what you wish for conservatives. There will be a day when your employer's religious views will not agree with your own and today the Supreme Court allowed them to invade your privacy and make decisions for you. Enjoy!

And a special note to all my Catholic friends: the evangelicals and fundamentalists you have crawled into bed with in regard to this issue actually believe you are members of a non-Christian cult. Given the opportunity, they will not hesitate to discriminate against you, your children, and your parishes.

[RosyDaisy]

I just pissed off all of my fundie relatives on Facebook. One told me my my grandmother so recently passed away would be ashamed of me. I told her to go fuck herself. My grandmother was very much pro birth control and very much against employers dictating their employees' health care choices.

[Mecca]

I just pissed off all of my fundie relatives on Facebook. One told me my my grandmother so recently passed away would be ashamed of me. I told her to go fuck herself. My grandmother was very much pro birth control and very much against employers dictating their employees' health care choices.

I think we may know the same people. :lol: The days of me not speaking up are long gone. I say what I say and if they do not like it, well, tough.

We should all take this energy we are feeling now and use it for good. We need to actively back people that can fight this nonsense. Do all we can do to stop this discrimination from spreading. If that cannot happen, maybe we should all pool our money together and buy an island somewhere so we can get away from the idiots. :think:

[ThisOlGirl]

I think we may know the same people. :lol: The days of me not speaking up are long gone. I say what I say and if they do not like it, well, tough.

We should all take this energy we are feeling now and use it for good. We need to actively back people that can fight this nonsense. Do all we can do to stop this discrimination from spreading. If that cannot happen, maybe we should all pool our money together and buy an island somewhere so we can get away from the idiots. :think:

PM me with directions to this island, please and thank you. My blender and frozen drink recipes are packed.

I'm following the comments on Mother Jones, and there seems to be a lot of "Keep yer legs closed, horz!!!" type comments, which tells me what this is really all about.

[Mandysue]

I know I will regret this but...

I worked for a Catholic hospital system and they did not cover birth control.

Is it all birth control or just the emergency morning after pill? This morning I heard it was the morning after pill.

Don't work for Hobby Lobby if you don't like their policies. I would be like a fundie going to work at Hooters then complaining about the dress code.

An employer does not have to provide health care coverage at all. It is a BENEFIT not a requirement. The alternative would be for them not to have any employee covered.

Last thing then you can start throwing tomatoes at me. I am on an ACA health plan. (My dh hasn't worked in over three years. I haven't worked in a year and a half) I found out this week that it will not cover gastric by pass surgery. I have obese, I have high blood pressure, high blood sugar, cholesterol and anxiety problems. I NEED this surgery I defiantly do not have the $12,000 to pay for it. Am I suppose to sue the government because I feel it is my right to have this surgery that will make me healthier? Do I suck it up until I find a job? but I can't find a job because I am fat and no one will hire me. it is a vicious cycle. I know it's not the same thing as birth control.

Any insurance that is paid for my your company is a benefit. If I went to work for any religious company I would expect that some of those beliefs would manifest itself into the work place.

You may now throw rotten fruits and vegetables....(if anyone has some squash though I'm jonseing for some fried squash) :)

[spud]

Does the HL scheme cover vasectomies and viagra for men? Is it only women who they think shouldn't have control over their bodies?

[louisa05]

I know I will regret this but...

I worked for a Catholic hospital system and they did not cover birth control.

Is it all birth control or just the emergency morning after pill? This morning I heard it was the morning after pill.

Don't work for Hobby Lobby if you don't like their policies. I would be like a fundie going to work at Hooters then complaining about the dress code.

An employer does not have to provide health care coverage at all. It is a BENEFIT not a requirement. The alternative would be for them not to have any employee covered.

Last thing then you can start throwing tomatoes at me. I am on an ACA health plan. (My dh hasn't worked in over three years. I haven't worked in a year and a half) I found out this week that it will not cover gastric by pass surgery. I have obese, I have high blood pressure, high blood sugar, cholesterol and anxiety problems. I NEED this surgery I defiantly do not have the $12,000 to pay for it. Am I suppose to sue the government because I feel it is my right to have this surgery that will make me healthier? Do I suck it up until I find a job? but I can't find a job because I am fat and no one will hire me. it is a vicious cycle. I know it's not the same thing as birth control.

Any insurance that is paid for my your company is a benefit. If I went to work for any religious company I would expect that some of those beliefs would manifest itself into the work place.

You may now throw rotten fruits and vegetables....(if anyone has some squash though I'm jonseing for some fried squash) :)

And I worked for a Catholic school for 10 years that covered birth control for the entire time. The Archdiocese stopped covering it a year ago because this controversy broke out. Which, incidentally, some reports I have seen say is the same thing that happened at Hobby Lobby.

Insurance is generally part of a compensation package, in essence part of your wages. And the ACA requires most employers to provide health coverage now. The private religious schools I worked for could say I had to participate in prayer at a staff meeting, but they could not tell me how to spend the money they paid me. The intent of setting minimum standards for coverage is to make sure that employers, likewise, do not have control over employees' health care decisions.

[apple1]

I know I will regret this but...

I worked for a Catholic hospital system and they did not cover birth control.

Is it all birth control or just the emergency morning after pill? This morning I heard it was the morning after pill.

Don't work for Hobby Lobby if you don't like their policies. I would be like a fundie going to work at Hooters then complaining about the dress code.

An employer does not have to provide health care coverage at all. It is a BENEFIT not a requirement. The alternative would be for them not to have any employee covered.

Last thing then you can start throwing tomatoes at me. I am on an ACA health plan. (My dh hasn't worked in over three years. I haven't worked in a year and a half) I found out this week that it will not cover gastric by pass surgery. I have obese, I have high blood pressure, high blood sugar, cholesterol and anxiety problems. I NEED this surgery I defiantly do not have the $12,000 to pay for it. Am I suppose to sue the government because I feel it is my right to have this surgery that will make me healthier? Do I suck it up until I find a job? but I can't find a job because I am fat and no one will hire me. it is a vicious cycle. I know it's not the same thing as birth control.

Any insurance that is paid for my your company is a benefit. If I went to work for any religious company I would expect that some of those beliefs would manifest itself into the work place.

You may now throw rotten fruits and vegetables....(if anyone has some squash though I'm jonseing for some fried squash) :)

Wow.

I have professional associates who are long time employees of one of my city's hospitals. In one of the (infamous) sell-and-buy deals brokered by suits in boardrooms, that particular hospital (a Jewish hospital in name and, up until then, official stance) was sold to a large hospital group that was Catholic. On day one, the employees lost their BC coverage.

1) These employees worked for this hospital long before it was bought out.

2) They did not have the luxury of just quitting their jobs because the new owner had different beliefs.

3) I would think an unemployed person like yourself would realize that people often have to take jobs that might not be their first preference in order to live.

4) Some of my ire with HL has to do with their utter hypocrisy, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

5) This or any other portion of a benefits package included as part of one's employment contract is not a free gift - it is called COMPENSATION in return for the employee's labor.

6) Really? Really??!!??

[DGayle]

Smuggar is gloating on twitter. If there was ever a time when I wish I could punch someone through the Internet . . .

I don't care how mean this sounds, but if he thinks our access to birth control should be blocked, then his mother and wife's access to medical care during pregnancy should be blocked since "it's god's will" that whatever happens, happens, right?

[DGayle]

Any legal experts, my question is this... if a for profit company can say "I won't pay for contraceptives because of my religion!" can that same company say "I won't hire women because of my religion." or "I won't promote men over women because of my religious convictions" or (fill in black, women, gay/lesbian, married, unmarried, non christians, etc) because of my religion.

Is this the camel nose under the tent flap that will eventually completely undo the civil rights amendments?

Valid concerns. SCOTUS will have a hard time justifying why the RFRA applies in one instance, but not another. Ginsberg is worried too.

[DGayle]

On a side not was anyone else aware Michael's is owned by the Kock brothers? I didn't know this until I was randomly reading facebook comments over the weekend and one of the drivers for Michael's mention it.

NO! Please someone tell me this isn't true.

[DGayle]

From what I've read it is not all forms of birth control they are objecting to, but only those they view as harming implantation (like plan B).

IUDs are included, and they're already arguing that other birth control pills prevent implantation, so won't be covered.

[dairyfreelife]

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13 ... 4_olp1.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/01/us/ho ... .html?_r=0

privately owned companies that do not wish to cover contraceptives do not have to do so, so Hobby Lobby and similar companies can have plans that do not cover birth control costs. Hobby Lobby won their case.

[feministxtian]

How on God's green earth can they fail to see the hypocrisy? They buy their goods from China. Their pension fund, as reported in Forbes, invests in these very manufacturers...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... objection/

The right-wingers just don't get it? Its not the non-coverage I mind so much, it's the hypocrisy of the Greens.

FTR...I am NOT a crafty person so I don't buy that stuff anywhere.

[dairyfreelife]

oops, missed the prior thread apparently. delete or merge. my bad. :?

[Trynn]

It's official. I have no faith left in humanity or any kind of authority.

I feel sick.

[GolightlyGrrl]

NO! Please someone tell me this isn't true.

I've been doing some Internet research and I haven't found any proof of this. I did find this on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michaels

[Childless]

Well, that just cements my desire to never step foot in a fucking Hobby Lobby ever again. They lost my business. Any of the cheap, crappy shit they sell can be found on the internet being sold by another company relatively easily. No reason to buy it from them.

[Childless]

I know I will regret this but...

I worked for a Catholic hospital system and they did not cover birth control.

Is it all birth control or just the emergency morning after pill? This morning I heard it was the morning after pill.

Don't work for Hobby Lobby if you don't like their policies. I would be like a fundie going to work at Hooters then complaining about the dress code.

An employer does not have to provide health care coverage at all. It is a BENEFIT not a requirement. The alternative would be for them not to have any employee covered.

Last thing then you can start throwing tomatoes at me. I am on an ACA health plan. (My dh hasn't worked in over three years. I haven't worked in a year and a half) I found out this week that it will not cover gastric by pass surgery. I have obese, I have high blood pressure, high blood sugar, cholesterol and anxiety problems. I NEED this surgery I defiantly do not have the $12,000 to pay for it. Am I suppose to sue the government because I feel it is my right to have this surgery that will make me healthier? Do I suck it up until I find a job? but I can't find a job because I am fat and no one will hire me. it is a vicious cycle. I know it's not the same thing as birth control.

Any insurance that is paid for my your company is a benefit. If I went to work for any religious company I would expect that some of those beliefs would manifest itself into the work place.

You may now throw rotten fruits and vegetables....(if anyone has some squash though I'm jonseing for some fried squash) :)

I believe any company with more than 50 employees must provide insurance to their employees under the ACA.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Well, that just cements my desire to never step foot in a fucking Hobby Lobby ever again. They lost my business. Any of the cheap, crappy shit they sell can be found on the internet being sold by another company relatively easily. No reason to buy it from them.

Yep, I can easily find my soap making supplies online. I'm going to research for soap making supply companies that aren't owned by fundie assholes.

And we should start a list of progressive companies here at FJ. Ben and Jerry's is one. Can we name any others?

[GeoBQn]

Wow.

I have professional associates who are long time employees of one of my city's hospitals. In one of the (infamous) sell-and-buy deals brokered by suits in boardrooms, that particular hospital (a Jewish hospital in name and, up until then, official stance) was sold to a large hospital group that was Catholic. On day one, the employees lost their BC coverage.

1) These employees worked for this hospital long before it was bought out.

2) They did not have the luxury of just quitting their jobs because the new owner had different beliefs.

3) I would think an unemployed person like yourself would realize that people often have to take jobs that might not be their first preference in order to live.

4) Some of my ire with HL has to do with their utter hypocrisy, as mentioned earlier in this thread.

5) This or any other portion of a benefits package included as part of one's employment contract is not a free gift - it is called COMPENSATION in return for the employee's labor.

6) Really? Really??!!??

There's also the problem that the ruling is about "closely-held corporations," which applies to over 90% of organizations in the country. Those organizations are responsible for employing 52% of all private employees. "Don't work for Hobby Lobby" is not a suitable solution when the majority of employers in your area start doing the same thing.

[RandomTrivia]

I have Catholic in-laws who will probably be overjoyed about this. :evil: :angry-banghead: :(

One of my brothers-in-law was seriously ill last fall, to the tune of multiple blood transfusions. (Acute hemolytic anemia, I think?) But if I were to point out that, if his company had hypothetically been owned by devout JWs who were anti-transfusion and pulled the HL defense, he would have either died or been on the hook for a massive hospital bill, they'd probably just say that BC isn't life-or-death, while transfusions are.

The world is apparently going to hell in the high-speed handbag, and I feel like I don't fit in anywhere. And I'm very glad that the next family dinner is two weeks out, so maybe they won't still be all fired up about this by then.

[doggie]

Well, that just cements my desire to never step foot in a fucking Hobby Lobby ever again. They lost my business. Any of the cheap, crappy shit they sell can be found on the internet being sold by another company relatively easily. No reason to buy it from them.

but they don't care they are rich and donate 50% of their pre tax bucks to christian charities. money won't hurt them.