Abusive Potty Training!?

[PennySycamore]

I basically didn't potty train mine. I figured they'd be dry and so on when they were ready. It worked. I did have to buy Lion King panties for my Lion King loving youngest though. She got very distracted when she was sitting there on the toilet so I got some Lion King panties for her. She didn't want to get Simba and Nala wet or sixty.

ETA: We had the youngest in Pull-Ups for a while. I think they're too absorbent and don't get uncomfortable like wet underpants do.

[Jana814]

My mother is a pre-school teacher. Some of my morher's kids in her class r not trained in the beginning of the year. By June most r. The older level of kids r mostly trained though. I dog walk for someone who's almost 4 year old is not trained. She dosen't want to force him. But he is suppose to go to day camp this summer & this camp does not allow non-trained kids at the camp.

[Mama Mia]

In my experience the daycares that accept toddlers or a range of children's ages will not require them to be toilet trained, but the pre-schools that start at 3 require it. We definitely had to fudge a little on just how potty trained one kid was when she started pre-school as she still had a lot of accidents when playing :whistle: .

I found pull-ups and the ultra absorbent disposables made it take much, much longer to get them out of diapers. Using the regular washable training pants really helped.

[Childless]

I just waited until I knew my son was ready. Once he started complaining about wet and messy diapers, I knew it was time. Right after his 3rd birthday, I took a week off of work, we hung out at the house, and I potty trained him. It took me 3 days. That's it. It was a breeze. Just one month later, he was night trained. I had tried to potty train him a year earlier, but it was obvious he didn't understand the concept and wasn't ready. Not a big deal. The only inconvenience was that I had to buy diapers for another year. So what. Quite frankly, it was much easier when he was in diapers. At least then, we didn't have to stop every 20 minutes while on a car trip to use the bathroom. LOL.

At my son's preschool, the first year of school (old 2s and young 3s) don't need to be potty trained in order to attend. If they aren't potty trained by the next year though, they cannot move onto the next class (they'll have to repeat that year). My only goal was to get my son potty trained by the end of this summer so he wouldn't be held back. We beat the cut off by nearly a year. Yay!

And, yeah, who feeds soda to a 2 year old? My kid is nearly 4 and has never even had a sip of the stuff. It's horribly unhealthy and there will be plenty of times when he's older that he'll end up drinking it. No need to give it him as a toddler.

[apple1]

My disclaimer: I have skimmed this entire thread, but have not read every post in total detail.

That said-

That book (Potty Training in Less Than a Day) was out in the bookstores (yeah, I know) when my kids were toddlers. I am totally embarrassed to admit that I fell for spending my not-so-plentiful $$ on that book. (My youngest is now 31 - so you know how long ago that was).

I read the book, thought Really? REALLY!!?? , threw it in the trash, and thought, wow, this one won't last one year. At least I didn't try to impose it on my kids.

Imagine my shock when I saw that it was still suckering people into parting with their own $$ this many years down the road.

On some level, the author of that book must be at least somewhat effective - way to make a long-running gravy train out of something really stupid.

[LittleOleMe]

So, would you say it's common for kids in France to be potty trained by two and I'm curious as to the method commonly used?

My children were potty learned by then. My son was in underwear and only a diaper at night time (not during nap time) by 18 months and fully in underwear 100% by 21 months. It all depends on how much time and effort you put into it. We practiced diaper free time a lot and paid attention to timing and cues. Babies naturally do not like relieving themselves in diapers. We teach them that that is okay and then try to unteach them that later. When babies pee at diaper changes, it's bc they don't want to pee in their pants. It's a completely natural thing for them to do. If you have the time and are willing to put in the energy - and it takes a ton of energy - you can have a diaper free baby at 6 months. Even if you don't practice Elimination Communication, using cloth diapers is a huge advantage. Unlike disposable diapers, cloth diapers do not pull away the moisture from baby, so they know when they've soiled themselves and therefore will potty learn much faster. If you pay attention, diaper commercials basically spell that out for you. "Our diapers keep baby drier, longer" ... and also make it harder for baby to potty learn. But they don't tell you that part bc then they don't make money.

Forgot to add: When did Kindergarten become between 5 and 7?! Children start Kindergarten at 5. Some 4, a few at 6 if they're repeating, but not 7.

[momof2treasures]

Kids here have to be 5 by sept 30th or they wait another year. My son turned 6 in October so was 6 for most of kindergarten.and not to be contrary but we use cloth and they are lined in microsude which does pull moisture away leaving a stay dry feel. This takes a few minutes so she still gets that wet feeling when she goes and it does seem to helping the process. I'm all about no pressure though.

[apple1]

My children were potty learned by then. My son was in underwear and only a diaper at night time (not during nap time) by 18 months and fully in underwear 100% by 21 months. It all depends on how much time and effort you put into it.

Nope. It all depends on your specific child and his/her unique personality and developmental pattern.

Unlike disposable diapers, cloth diapers do not pull away the moisture from baby...

Agree. (FWIW I cloth diapered, and it wasn't trendy then).

Sum total of apple's (mom and grandma - just sayin', I have BTDT) potty-training philosophy: The kid will do it when he/she is ready, and not when you want them to.

[ADoyle90815]

In my experience the daycares that accept toddlers or a range of children's ages will not require them to be toilet trained, but the pre-schools that start at 3 require it. We definitely had to fudge a little on just how potty trained one kid was when she started pre-school as she still had a lot of accidents when playing :whistle: .

I found pull-ups and the ultra absorbent disposables made it take much, much longer to get them out of diapers. Using the regular washable training pants really helped.

My niece was potty trained with those washable training pants, as she hated having wet pants. She was only trained when she was ready, which was shortly before she was 3.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Nope. It all depends on your specific child and his/her unique personality and developmental pattern.

Agree. (FWIW I cloth diapered, and it wasn't trendy then).

Sum total of apple's (mom and grandma - just sayin', I have BTDT) potty-training philosophy: The kid will do it when he/she is ready, and not when you want them to.

I used cloth diapers and my first daughter trained herself in one day at like 22 months (she wanted panties and we had a video called "it's potty time," the songs which still pop into my head to this day). My second did something similar right before she turned 2, but my third had no interest until she was over three. Every kid is different.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I was just curious how it was in other countries be ause iirc Marianne is in France and she seemed shocked that a kid wouldn't be trained at 2

[Mama Mia]

I was just curious how it was in other countries be ause iirc Marianne is in France and she seemed shocked that a kid wouldn't be trained at 2

I was more shocked that they apparently have 30 two year olds in a room with only 2 adults! :shock: I was a pre-school teacher, and rand a large family daycare home back in a previous life, and we had to have a much higher adult to child ratio. Don't recall what it was, but I know at my 2 year old grand baby's daycare it is 1 adult to every 4 toddlers. Even the 4 year olds had a lower ratio than 1 to 15.

That many babies ( cause 2 year olds really are still babies IMO) to one caregiver sounds like the children wouldn't get nearly enough attention.

[Marianne]

I was more shocked that they apparently have 30 two year olds in a room with only 2 adults! :shock: I was a pre-school teacher, and rand a large family daycare home back in a previous life, and we had to have a much higher adult to child ratio. Don't recall what it was, but I know at my 2 year old grand baby's daycare it is 1 adult to every 4 toddlers. Even the 4 year olds had a lower ratio than 1 to 15.

That many babies ( cause 2 year olds really are still babies IMO) to one caregiver sounds like the children wouldn't get nearly enough attention.

We're all shocked of that, Mama Mia... Big problems in preschool and primary school (? between 6 and 10). When I was 3, we were 35 children ! They are one teacher + one or two caregiver by class. We have not enough teacher because of bad condition. Btw, most of the teacher manage to create cool class ! They make a great job in bad condition !

And for the potty training things... You just take off the diapers when the child know how to walk, explain how toilet works, and then, you are veeeeeeeeeery patient :D Eveyrone told you to wait until the child walk well and speak, even a little. I was not shocked about the 2 years things, I wondered how the did it for class.

[FJismyheadship]

I used cloth diapers and my first daughter trained herself in one day at like 22 months (she wanted panties and we had a video called "it's potty time," the songs which still pop into my head to this day). My second did something similar right before she turned 2, but my third had no interest until she was over three. Every kid is different.

Our movie is Potty Power. Thank God it goes back to the library tomorrow. I may have to buy it though, because the small child loves it. Or I'll wait a few days and check it out again. I had "I'm proud to wear my underwear, as proud as proud can be! I march about and then I SHOUT I'm proud to wear my underwear" stuck in my head for days. It was all I could do to NOT randomly sing it out loud in public.

[Three and Done]

*Snip*

My children were potty learned by then. My son was in underwear and only a diaper at night time (not during nap time) by 18 months and fully in underwear 100% by 21 months. It all depends on how much time and effort you put into it. We practiced diaper free time a lot and paid attention to timing and cues. Babies naturally do not like relieving themselves in diapers. We teach them that that is okay and then try to unteach them that later. When babies pee at diaper changes, it's bc they don't want to pee in their pants. It's a completely natural thing for them to do. If you have the time and are willing to put in the energy - and it takes a ton of energy - you can have a diaper free baby at 6 months. Even if you don't practice Elimination Communication, using cloth diapers is a huge advantage. Unlike disposable diapers, cloth diapers do not pull away the moisture from baby, so they know when they've soiled themselves and therefore will potty learn much faster. If you pay attention, diaper commercials basically spell that out for you. "Our diapers keep baby drier, longer" ... and also make it harder for baby to potty learn. But they don't tell you that part bc then they don't make money.

Forgot to add: When did Kindergarten become between 5 and 7?! Children start Kindergarten at 5. Some 4, a few at 6 if they're repeating, but not 7.

[NurseNell]

My sons were both trained at 2. One did it himself, in a day, a week before his 2nd birthday. The other did it exactly on his 2nd birthday. This was both daytime and nighttime. My 3 grandsons were trained by 2 also. My daughter was about 2 1/2 but her daughters were trained by 2.

[formergothardite]

I am not a parent, so I am not up to date on proper child care and nutrition, but who the fuck gives a toddler/pre-schooler 8 ounces of Dr. Pepper?

If I drank tons of apple juice and Dr. Pepper I would struggle to sand still for an hour. This is just bad parenting.

I used cloth diapers and my oldest was almost 3. :lol: She just didn't get it. But when she did she was potty trained in less than 24 hours. I tried to not make it a huge struggle or a big deal. And one day it was like it all clicked and she knew what to do. She really wasn't ready before then.

[tankgirl]

I also did elimination communication, but in a far less hippy way then many. We did not try very much naked time, until tankbaby was about 18 months, they were in 100% pants by 21 months. It can make it easier for a children to understand what the toilet is for. We started to offer the toilet very young (like 3 weeks) and it did make many things easier in the long run. My child also hated to be wet, but I don't think that is as true for all children. And a mix of cloth nappies and EC did help my child, get finished training earlier and easier then some of my friends kids. The biggest thing for us though was my child was night dry, at 6 months old, and I mean we had 3 accidents between then and day training, 2 were our fault not pottying before bed, the other was mixed with my child feeling poorly. My child never had toilet fears, even of automatic flushers, as we introduced them to all types of toilets where ever we went. So for us EC worked.

But I also saw a friend who did cloth and did EC, and her children, especially the oldest, fought her tooth and nail to go to 100% dry pants. Some of the slip came when she had her second, so it was hard to say it wasn't just new baby situation, but for her, it did not speed up anything no matter how she tried. The interesting bit, is she was much more by the EC book then I ever was. She did tons of naked time, even when out, she constantly carried a training toilet, and was hyper focused on the whole thing. We never were that fussed. I just liked that it gave me less laundry to do with every pee or poo that hit the toilet instead of a nappy. The fact it helped train or child quicker then the average was fantastic, but I wasn't going to fight and make it a battle either way. Which I thought my friend really did.

[Rebelwife]

If I drank tons of apple juice and Dr. Pepper I would struggle to sand still for an hour. This is just bad parenting.

I used cloth diapers and my oldest was almost 3. :lol: She just didn't get it. But when she did she was potty trained in less than 24 hours. I tried to not make it a huge struggle or a big deal. And one day it was like it all clicked and she knew what to do. She really wasn't ready before then.

My siblings and I were all solely in cloth diapers (I'm old) and there were four of us. My mom says I was fully trained, including being dry at night, by the time my next brother was born - so I had to have been no older than 21 months. I believe her, though, because she'll also tell you very cheerfully that my youngest brother was well over 3 before he even cared to try. I think there are windows of cooperation* you can hit at various ages, but mostly it depends on the kid.

(* I think this is true with my youngest. She was interested, and mostly ready, at 18 months so it worked because she was at a cooperative stage. If I'd put it off even a couple of months, it would never have worked because she was in a different, more "oppositional" stage. :lol: I would have probably had to wait a whole year before I tried again.)

[polecat]

My siblings and I were all solely in cloth diapers (I'm old) and there were four of us. My mom says I was fully trained, including being dry at night, by the time my next brother was born - so I had to have been no older than 21 months. I believe her, though, because she'll also tell you very cheerfully that my youngest brother was well over 3 before he even cared to try. I think there are windows of cooperation* you can hit at various ages, but mostly it depends on the kid.

(* I think this is true with my youngest. She was interested, and mostly ready, at 18 months so it worked because she was at a cooperative stage. If I'd put it off even a couple of months, it would never have worked because she was in a different, more "oppositional" stage. :lol: I would have probably had to wait a whole year before I tried again.)

I really think this is it. Mine were all CD'd, but it certainly didn't change *when* they were ready to PT, afaict. I might've been able to get them to do it earlier, but I suspect it'd have been an uphill battle. We talked about it a lot from maybe two on, but there was resistance, and with three kids so close in age, I just wasn't up for that. When it did happen, it happened fast and without frustration for parents or kids.

[formergothardite]

I really think this is it. Mine were all CD'd, but it certainly didn't change *when* they were ready to PT, afaict. I might've been able to get them to do it earlier, but I suspect it'd have been an uphill battle. We talked about it a lot from maybe two on, but there was resistance, and with three kids so close in age, I just wasn't up for that. When it did happen, it happened fast and without frustration for parents or kids.

My mom had nine kids and cloth diapered us all. Some of us potty trained early, some much later, but her philosophy was that we would go when we were ready and turning it into a battle of the wills or into a huge ordeal would just be more likely to make us potty train later.

[quinoa]

*Snip*

My children were potty learned by then. My son was in underwear and only a diaper at night time (not during nap time) by 18 months and fully in underwear 100% by 21 months. It all depends on how much time and effort you put into it. We practiced diaper free time a lot and paid attention to timing and cues. Babies naturally do not like relieving themselves in diapers. We teach them that that is okay and then try to unteach them that later. When babies pee at diaper changes, it's bc they don't want to pee in their pants. It's a completely natural thing for them to do. If you have the time and are willing to put in the energy - and it takes a ton of energy - you can have a diaper free baby at 6 months. Even if you don't practice Elimination Communication, using cloth diapers is a huge advantage. Unlike disposable diapers, cloth diapers do not pull away the moisture from baby, so they know when they've soiled themselves and therefore will potty learn much faster. If you pay attention, diaper commercials basically spell that out for you. "Our diapers keep baby drier, longer" ... and also make it harder for baby to potty learn. But they don't tell you that part bc then they don't make money.

Forgot to add: When did Kindergarten become between 5 and 7?! Children start Kindergarten at 5. Some 4, a few at 6 if they're repeating, but not 7.

To the bolded - empirical evidence, please?

[LittleOleMe]

If you research EC and talk to people who have successfully used it, you will find people who have diaper free infants. I did this with my daughter and had her using a potty at 5 months old. When she woke up she sat on her baby potty and then every two hours or so she sat on the potty. It was awesome. But it does take time and effort. You have to be willing to get up in the middle of the night every time baby wakes up, which partially defeats the purpose of cosleeping, and really paying attention to cues. If you can't figure out their clues, then you have to do a timer. It won't always work and it won't always work right away, but it can and does work. I knew people who never bought any diapers, cloth or otherwise, because they learned their children's cues. I wasn't able to learn the cues as well with my kids so I used timing. Both can work.

[LittleOleMe]

All that being said, we would never have shamed him for wetting at any age. I can't help but think that it's mixed signals to let a child urinate in their pants until they're two, then suddenly turn on them and shame them for their bad behavior.

Shaming a child is NEVER the answer! I can't believe anyone would even attempt to say that's okay. I remember hearing about a mother who told her son that if he peed in his pants his penis would fall off :pink-shock: These people are crazy and this book is clearly promoting child abuse, like so many other so called "parenting" books out there. TTUAC being no exception.

[snarktastic]

I had one child that absolutely refused to fully potty train until they were four. I tried all the systems going and they weren't having any of it. I have a character on my hands :lol:

It wasn't the end of the world; I reckoned child wouldn't want to be still in nappies when they started school and guess what, they weren't.