Pope says kids, not pets

[Jinger Jar]

The Church in recent decades has an absolutely appalling record with children. In doing some research for a project, I recently discovered that priests in Chile were at the heart of a baby-snatching ring that took babies from their mothers and gave them to "traditional" Catholic couples. Sometimes the mothers were persuaded to give their babies up; sometimes they were told the their babies had died. Priests went so far as to have funeral Masses said for their departed souls. :(

I think the less the Church attempts to instruct the laity in the ways of child-rearing and family life for a generation or three the better.

[DGayle]

But why doesn't he say you can have just as close relationships with friends and people from your church? I've been as close as a granddaughter to people that i've cleaned house for and helped with elder care. It's really silly for the QF and some religious people to say that folks will be lonely in old age without kids. With kids or without, you'll be lonely if you don't reach out to others. All it takes is some compassion for other people.

So selfish to think that you have to have children to keep from being lonely. The result could just be people who are obligated to send you flowers regardless of how you treat them. :lol:

Probably because there's only so much you can expect other people who aren't any relation to do for you, for free, when you're 95 and in diapers, and because that opens the door for the argument that it's selfish to expect the kids of other people to give you the time-consuming care they may already be giving to their own older relatives. It's also kind of awful to talk about cultivating friendships with younger people because you're hoping they'll see you as a grandma-figure and devote hours a day to your care. It peeves me a bit to think abyone could want to have a friendship with my daughters because they hope one of my girls might see that person as a granny or grampy and forego countless hours of their own lives to go give care to other people. That's really trying to have the benefits of a childfree life while also having the potential elder benefits of having children.

I have several childfree friends who accept that they'll probably be on their own at that age and don't have any expectation of other people's kids stepping in to help them, and that this is the price they're willing to pay to live the lives they want now, and to have decades of happiness the way they want it.

If you have kids, you already shouldn't expect them to drop their own lives for your needs later. If you don't have kids definitely don't go around thinking you'll just have friendships with other people's kids so hopefully they'll take care of you.

[Ave Maria]

I think Coco is talking about a cure for loneliness, not about getting someone to change one's diapers. I could be reading her wrong, but I think she's saying that if one doesn't reach out, one won't have friends -- and life with friends is less lonely, kids or no kids.

[RosyDaisy]

Well, I can't have children, never wanted any, and I'm not Catholic, so Pope Francis' words are falling on my deaf ears. A man who is supposed to remain celibate and people who don't have kids have no business telling people they should have kids or how to raise kids. I much prefer my feline headship over kids. I'm sorry if that offends Catholics, but that's just my opinion.

[Coco]

Probably because there's only so much you can expect other people who aren't any relation to do for you, for free, when you're 95 and in diapers, and because that opens the door for the argument that it's selfish to expect the kids of other people to give you the time-consuming care they may already be giving to their own older relatives. It's also kind of awful to talk about cultivating friendships with younger people because you're hoping they'll see you as a grandma-figure and devote hours a day to your care. It peeves me a bit to think abyone could want to have a friendship with my daughters because they hope one of my girls might see that person as a granny or grampy and forego countless hours of their own lives to go give care to other people. That's really trying to have the benefits of a childfree life while also having the potential elder benefits of having children.

I have several childfree friends who accept that they'll probably be on their own at that age and don't have any expectation of other people's kids stepping in to help them, and that this is the price they're willing to pay to live the lives they want now, and to have decades of happiness the way they want it.

If you have kids, you already shouldn't expect them to drop their own lives for your needs later. If you don't have kids definitely don't go around thinking you'll just have friendships with other people's kids so hopefully they'll take care of you.

That's true, it is a pretty bleak thing to think about. I was talking about it in a loneliness sense, and that being related by blood isn't required to have people in our lives that feel like family...

On the physical side of it, that is true that the Pope probably meant being cared for in old age. I have no idea what the medicare-type situation is in Italy. I'm a nurse at heart and probably should have become a nun since I totally suck at being a mom as far as managing the zillion things about kid life, 24/7. :lol: But i don't mind physically caring for people. It was a paid position, but i would have done it to hear the elderly lady's stories too. She taught me a lot about life. So i guess the take away for me would be open an IRA to be able to afford Depends! :lol: and stay fit.

[Ellimenopy]

1) Someone without kids (presumably!) should not give child having advice to anyone as they don't really know what they're talking about.

2) Having kids is fucking hard and I wanted them. Pregnancy is fucking hard, and I wanted that too. After being pregnant, and raising kids for 2 years so far, more than ever I think if you don't 100% want kids, DON'T HAVE THEM.

My mom used to tell me that I'd change my mind and be pro-life once I had kids. NO. NO. NO! More than ever I know that it's cruel to foist pregnancy and motherhood on someone who doesn't want it or isn't ready for it. It sucks enough when you enjoy it, and no, that's not an oxymoron.

[Trynn]

I'd love to have kids, a full dozen.

However, I won't even get a cat because i can't afford to feed it consistently and take it in for shots or change its litter.

Having a child right now, in purpose, would be an absolute sin. Growing up we were taught that, while accidents happen, purposely trying toget pregnant while you know you can't support the child is sin, and I tend to agree.

If there is such a thing as sin, that is. It's definitely a bad iLife that can harm others.

[OkToBeTakei]

Probably because there's only so much you can expect other people who aren't any relation to do for you, for free, when you're 95 and in diapers, and because that opens the door for the argument that it's selfish to expect the kids of other people to give you the time-consuming care they may already be giving to their own older relatives. It's also kind of awful to talk about cultivating friendships with younger people because you're hoping they'll see you as a grandma-figure and devote hours a day to your care. It peeves me a bit to think abyone could want to have a friendship with my daughters because they hope one of my girls might see that person as a granny or grampy and forego countless hours of their own lives to go give care to other people. That's really trying to have the benefits of a childfree life while also having the potential elder benefits of having children.

I have several childfree friends who accept that they'll probably be on their own at that age and don't have any expectation of other people's kids stepping in to help them, and that this is the price they're willing to pay to live the lives they want now, and to have decades of happiness the way they want it.

If you have kids, you already shouldn't expect them to drop their own lives for your needs later. If you don't have kids definitely don't go around thinking you'll just have friendships with other people's kids so hopefully they'll take care of you.

Part of my 'other' life involves quite a bit of advocating for the elderly and protecting their interests. It's very common for individuals to have no family and the issue arises when the peer group of the person also happens to be the same age and I suppose none of us really think of the reality when we are younger.

It is quite an undertaking to take financial, welfare guardianship for an elderly relative never mind one who is not related. The amount of people I see with a lawyer or 'friend' as their next of kin is quite high. Unfortunately compared to those with close family (son's, daughter's, grandchildren) the level of day to day interaction is quite low. I recently attended a review for a case where an EMI unit wished to throw a party for a 90th birthday of a service user and the hoops to free up some money for this was complicated and the guests were mainly professionals or carers. It is becoming far more common as the population ages and will become even more so.

Is that a reason to have kids? No definitely not as I said above it's about choice and I don't read what the dude said as anything other than pointing out what COULD happen if you make that choice. Dogs and cats can't protect your dignity or mental and financial welfare. Actually sometimes even kids or relatives can't be trusted either sadly.

I suppose it's something the population and individuals need to plan for on many levels. It's naive to say just have kids to prevent this happening, it's also naive to not take the future into consideration whatever your situation may turn out to be....today's happy thought...Not :?