Parents, children, and political ideologies

[SPHASH]

2012 was the first year I voted straight Democrat.

[Vivi_music]

Same with my mothers family, lol one time I was bored and knowing my mother and her brother have different political views, I said something along the lines of 'but X need money more then Y' and sat and watched the entertainment. Yes I know this is bad but we all love each other and never hold grudges and our arguments can be so funny to watch as we are a family of stubborn know-it-alls. My cousins saw what I did and laughed. 8-)

You're lucky. At least you can argue a bit without too much consequences. My family do hold grudges! So it's a no-no for us.

[Jezebel]

When I was a kid in the '70s and early '80s, most of my family were non-religious and moderate Republicans. Even the few Democrats were toward the moderate end, so political discussions rarely got too heated.

Fast-forward to now, and my mom, who went from politically indifferent to varying shades of Democrat is now a full-blown Socialist--she's the one person I can really talk dirty politics with. My dad died a while back, but he was the nastiest sort of "I've got mine, so fuck you" fiscal Republican. Had he lived longer, however, I think he would have slid further into Teabagger territory; he was getting increasingly paranoid and reductionistic in his thinking in the years before he died.

My brother's probably a Democrat due to social issues, though not an extremely liberal one economically. My kid sister and her husband are Democrats with a Green streak, but at the same time they've got a lot of money and there's an uneasy tension between their social ideals and wanting to protect their financial interests (and we've killed a lot of bottles of wine talking about this). I'm a lefty independent who is registered as a Republican solely so I can vote against the most offensive Republican candidates in the primaries. I've voted for Greens, lots of Socialists and Democrats, and even for the occasional Republican when they've been the best candidate for the job (it happens!).

During the '80s my grandparents and the others of their generation became increasingly conservative. My grandparents are almost all gone now, but everyone in that generation is now some variety of Fox News-addicted Teabagger. Every damned one. And it's a crying shame, because these were always smart, feisty, yet big-hearted people, and now they're so full of bitterness, fear, and petty bigotry I hardly recognize them. I can't even argue with them because they quickly start stooping to levels of crazed viciousness that are just appalling. I'm obviously not going to change their minds or get them to see another point of view, so I avoid politics as a topic of conversation altogether.

[scc12]

2012 was the first year I voted straight Democrat.

I did it in 2008 and made the mistake of letting my extended family know,and I caught hell for it and they have run with it ever since.

It's none of their biz anyway,so I should have kept it silent.I know better now.I thought they were more mature than that,at leas enough to realize our troops fought and died for MY right to vote as I chose (not their way) as well.But I was wrong.

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

You're lucky. At least you can argue a bit without too much consequences. My family do hold grudges! So it's a no-no for us.

Yeah I am so grateful for them, even though they are all crazy ( I'm the normal one in the family and I refuse to believe anything to the contrary hahaha jk) we will argue between ourselves and it gets really heated but if an outsider says anything we close ranks. Everyone no matter what side of politics is pretty moderate so the arguments are even funny when they are agreeing with other but still fighting to the death.. Lol

[FloraDoraDolly]

I am an independent. I tend to give more weight to a candidate's qualifications and competence vs. the D or R next to his/her name on the ballot. In terms of ideology, I usually pick the candidate who is closest to the center. If I don't like either of them, I'll write someone in or vote 3rd party.

My parents and extended family members are all over the map politically. Right now, most of them dislike and distrust both of the major parties.

[Maggie Mae]

I've swung back and forth on the spectrum. I think I'm moderate, although in this state I am Very Liberal. Even though I'm employed in an industry that is well known for being conservative. I know where any job in this state come from, and I like to think that I'm just being pragmatic.

My parents are ... not educated. They are nice people. They taught me about fairness and paid for me to go to a nice private school that taught me all about wealth inequality, both in the curriculum and by being not as wealthy as my classmates. They tend to vote conservative. My dad because he's devote Catholic - I can't hold it against him. He's been sick my whole life and while I've had my ups and downs with him, he's still my dad. If he needs the church to get him through the day, well, today will be the day I understand that. Yesterday I probably was pissed about it. It happens. My mom votes based on who the most attractive candidate is and is "against killing babies." I don't talk politics with them.

It's for the best.

[Marianne]

Today, I hear a little boy saying that François Hollande was a bad president because he cheated on his wife :roll: I tell him that cheating is a very normal thing. Maybe not good, but a lot of people cheat. I find a little frightening that CHILDREN think that privacy of the president is important. Old people can think it, but children ?!

[latraviata]

Today, I hear a little boy saying that François Hollande was a bad president because he cheated on his wife :roll: I tell him that cheating is a very normal thing. Maybe not good, but a lot of people cheat. I find a little frightening that CHILDREN think that privacy of the president is important. Old people can think it, but children ?!

How unFrench! I remember François Mitterand who said when they conftonted him with his affair:

Et alors??

Who cares wether the president or any politician has an affair, I don't understand the fascination wit a public figure's sex life.

[Rebelwife]

How unFrench! I remember François Mitterand who said when they conftonted him with his affair:

Et alors??

Who cares wether the president or any politician has an affair, I don't understand the fascination wit a public figure's sex life.

I care, but only if they hold themselves up to be the arbiter of morality and/or their spouse cares. Hypocrisy is the thing I can't stand the most, with lying a close second.

If they're not presuming to tell me how to run MY private life, then whatever.

[Marianne]

I care, but only if they hold themselves up to be the arbiter of morality and/or their spouse cares. Hypocrisy is the thing I can't stand the most, with lying a close second.

If they're not presuming to tell me how to run MY private life, then whatever.

But it's their PRIVACY. We even don't have to know if they are married or if they have children. That's like when president François Hollande used monney of OUR taxes to his girlfriend. The "Frist Lady" (here) hav eno right. She doesn't exist, and nobody care. I was furious when Carla Bruni was in UK with president Sarkozy, because she is nothing. That makes me crazy.

Latraviata, Félix Faure died when his paramour perform oral sex on him :roll: That was just the beginning... (except wis De Gaulle who doesn't have paramour... And it was one of the worst president !)

[Rebelwife]

But it's their PRIVACY. We even don't have to know if they are married or if they have children. That's like when president François Hollande used monney of OUR taxes to his girlfriend. The "Frist Lady" (here) hav eno right. She doesn't exist, and nobody care. I was furious when Carla Bruni was in UK with president Sarkozy, because she is nothing. That makes me crazy.

Latraviata, Félix Faure died when his paramour perform oral sex on him :roll: That was just the beginning... (except wis De Gaulle who doesn't have paramour... And it was one of the worst president !)

But again, if you are trotting out your wife and family and holding yourself up as a paragon of family values, then I think I have the right to judge you for being a hypocrite and a liar.

I realize that the bolded is more of a US thing than a French, but I don't think it negates my point.

[Marianne]

François Hollande have never been married, so he was not a parangon of families values :lol: And again, it was cheating. That's not good, but, morally, that's not the worst things. It's a... fact of life. You can be a good president while being a hypocryte and a liar. Pompidou was a good president, and he cheats on his wife. Mitterand was one of the worst president, and he cheats on his wife and have children with his paramour. Your privacy don't influence the way you rule your country. François Hollande is a bad president because he is from the pseudo "socialist party", not because he cheats on his girlfriend. The fact that children think that they have a right to know about the privacy of president is frightening for the future.

[latraviata]

I care, but only if they hold themselves up to be the arbiter of morality and/or their spouse cares. Hypocrisy is the thing I can't stand the most, with lying a close second.

If they're not presuming to tell me how to run MY private life, then whatever.

This I agree.

[Arete]

I care. When you get married, you are making a solemn vow to someone. If then as a politician you flaunt the breaking of a vow to the most important person of your life, how am I to trust you to keep any vows you made to the voters? You don't live with them, see them, have children with them. I don't care if you don't hold yourself up as a paragon of virtue, I care that you don't take your promises seriously.

I agree there is no reason for a child to be informed of a president's sex life, but I'll risk being unsophisticated and say that it does matter to me. For the record I still voted for Clinton even after his horndog tendencies were public knowledge, but it mattered.

[RandomTrivia]

I certainly can talk about politics with my close family (parents and siblings) because we mainly have the same political point of views. My parents were hippies and they raised a bunch of leftist, green, feminist, pro-choice kids. :P Maybe our opinions vary on one or two specific issues, but for the main part, we all agree. So I guess this article is right for the main part.

I'm mostly Democrat. I can talk politics with my sister - a bit, because she's way into the crunchy alternative medicine, and if we veer off politics into vaccinating or something, it wouldn't end well. DH is more on the Libertarian/Republican end of the range, although thank God the FOXNews habit has died down. The rest of the family, both mine and husband's, is deep into the Republican end of things. MIL is registered Democrat, or was last I knew, but I'd bet money she votes Republican - that whole family is Catholic/Republican. I avoid talking politics at all with any of them, but I still have to hear the rants about Obama, ACA, abortion, welfare/government money, ad nauseum. Which is especially mindboggling, given DH's nephew on welfare, with 2 premature kids who I'm sure have benefited from government money.

I joke that I could avoid all this headache with 5 words - I'm pretty sure that if I share who I voted for, I'd be close to persona non grata at family dinners.

[Firiel]

I care. When you get married, you are making a solemn vow to someone. If then as a politician you flaunt the breaking of a vow to the most important person of your life, how am I to trust you to keep any vows you made to the voters? You don't live with them, see them, have children with them. I don't care if you don't hold yourself up as a paragon of virtue, I care that you don't take your promises seriously.

I agree there is no reason for a child to be informed of a president's sex life, but I'll risk being unsophisticated and say that it does matter to me. For the record I still voted for Clinton even after his horndog tendencies were public knowledge, but it mattered.

Yeah, it matters to me too. I wouldn't dismiss someone entirely because of it, but it's certainly a mark against them. I'm kind of personally invested in it. Having been cheated on by my ex-husband and knowing how much it hurt, I think it shows an utter lack of empathy and compassion to cheat in the serialized way it seems like many politicians do (i.e. multiple affairs, short-term flings, etc.). I try to be understanding of people who cheat because it's common enough that I realize it's unfair to assume all cheaters are bad people, but because of my experiences, it's hard to combat that personal bias. But it seems to me that most politicians have affairs because they can-- they have the power and the opportunity. And having an affair because you have power-- or because you are "entitled" to it-- is a pretty shitty thing to do. And if you don't respect the woman who has probably sacrificed more than I can possibly imagine to help you in your political career enough to not have sex with whatever attractive young woman comes your way, then how the hell am I supposed to believe you respect women in general, despite the policies that you espouse?

/endrant

Sorry if that makes me sound like the morality police. But I do care. I've never cheated but have been cheated on several times and it sucks. If the husband and wife have an "agreement," it's okay, as long as they are both allowed to screw around, but I wouldn't really consider it cheating then...

[Rebelwife]

Yeah, it matters to me too. I wouldn't dismiss someone entirely because of it, but it's certainly a mark against them. I'm kind of personally invested in it. Having been cheated on by my ex-husband and knowing how much it hurt, I think it shows an utter lack of empathy and compassion to cheat in the serialized way it seems like many politicians do (i.e. multiple affairs, short-term flings, etc.). I try to be understanding of people who cheat because it's common enough that I realize it's unfair to assume all cheaters are bad people, but because of my experiences, it's hard to combat that personal bias. But it seems to me that most politicians have affairs because they can-- they have the power and the opportunity. And having an affair because you have power-- or because you are "entitled" to it-- is a pretty shitty thing to do. And if you don't respect the woman who has probably sacrificed more than I can possibly imagine to help you in your political career enough to not have sex with whatever attractive young woman comes your way, then how the hell am I supposed to believe you respect women in general, despite the policies that you espouse?

/endrant

Sorry if that makes me sound like the morality police. But I do care. I've never cheated but have been cheated on several times and it sucks. If the husband and wife have an "agreement," it's okay, as long as they are both allowed to screw around, but I wouldn't really consider it cheating then...

This! In my earlier post, I referenced not thinking much of people who lie and break promises. But what goes on (consentually) in your relationships is none of my business, as long as you are willing to show me the same courtesy.

[Marianne]

Yeah, it matters to me too. I wouldn't dismiss someone entirely because of it, but it's certainly a mark against them. I'm kind of personally invested in it. Having been cheated on by my ex-husband and knowing how much it hurt, I think it shows an utter lack of empathy and compassion to cheat in the serialized way it seems like many politicians do (i.e. multiple affairs, short-term flings, etc.). I try to be understanding of people who cheat because it's common enough that I realize it's unfair to assume all cheaters are bad people, but because of my experiences, it's hard to combat that personal bias. But it seems to me that most politicians have affairs because they can-- they have the power and the opportunity. And having an affair because you have power-- or because you are "entitled" to it-- is a pretty shitty thing to do. And if you don't respect the woman who has probably sacrificed more than I can possibly imagine to help you in your political career enough to not have sex with whatever attractive young woman comes your way, then how the hell am I supposed to believe you respect women in general, despite the policies that you espouse?

/endrant

Sorry if that makes me sound like the morality police. But I do care. I've never cheated but have been cheated on several times and it sucks. If the husband and wife have an "agreement," it's okay, as long as they are both allowed to screw around, but I wouldn't really consider it cheating then...

But, do we have to know the privacy of our politics ? Do we have to know the name of their woman or girlfriend or the number of children or the name of their children ? That's my point. Privacy is nearly dead with facebook and other. We have to protect the privacy of people AND of politics. The policies that he espouces is more important for me than his life. He cheats ? Yes. And a loooooooooooooooot of people cheats, and are cheated. That's life, that's normal. Not good, but common. I will not ask to my president to be a super human. Plus, he was not married

I also find frightening that our medias in France are more and more interested in the life of the President. I'm sorry, don't take it like an offense, but it looks like an Americanization of politic life, and it's not good at all. I understand that a christian country like the USA take seriously family values, but we're not a christian country (the against wedding for gay were minority).

Plus, when I see Julie Gayet, i would probably did the same... But my fiancée would be okay because she doesn't care

[Firiel]

But, do we have to know the privacy of our politics ? Do we have to know the name of their woman or girlfriend or the number of children or the name of their children ? That's my point. Privacy is nearly dead with facebook and other. We have to protect the privacy of people AND of politics. The policies that he espouces is more important for me than his life. He cheats ? Yes. And a loooooooooooooooot of people cheats, and are cheated. That's life, that's normal. Not good, but common. I will not ask to my president to be a super human. Plus, he was not married

I also find frightening that our medias in France are more and more interested in the life of the President. I'm sorry, don't take it like an offense, but it looks like an Americanization of politic life, and it's not good at all. I understand that a christian country like the USA take seriously family values, but we're not a christian country (the against wedding for gay were minority).

Plus, when I see Julie Gayet, i would probably did the same... But my fiancée would be okay because she doesn't care

I was speaking generally because I don't know much (or anything) about the particular situation in France. As I am unfamiliar with the situation, I don't pretend to have any sort of real opinion on it. And I do agree with you generally in regards to privacy. I do wish these things were more private because I think not letting the nation know would allow the couple to work it out in a way that worked best for them. It's an agreement they have? Cool. It was an indiscretion and they choose to work through it? Cool. He's a serial cheater and she leaves him? Cool.

The main issue I have is that I do believe that cheating says something about your character. When I found out my ex-husband cheated on me, I felt dead inside. It was awful, and I remember thinking, "How could anyone make someone else feel this way? I could NEVER do this to someone." Plenty of people don't care that they are breaking someone else (a spouse/significant other) emotionally and use their power and privilege to take advantage of others sexually*. Those are narcissistic/non-empathetic traits, and I struggle with feeling okay about having someone like that in office.

That being said, I agree with what you said about the Americanization of politics. I wish American politics were less family-oriented because then if a man wanted to sleep with many fully aware and consenting women, he could do so without getting married. Or he could be in an open marriage. Or he could be openly gay instead of having to have a secret affair. Or he could be divorced if things just didn't work out with his wife. But instead, American politicians need to conform to a very specific image that leads to these "scandals" happening.

*I realize that not all affairs are malicious, that sometimes they do happen because of genuine indiscretion and that the person who has an affair may feel incredibly sorry for betraying his/her significant other. That's one reason your discussion of privacy rings true to me, despite the fact that my moralizing doesn't seem compatible with it. Because, in reality, even leaving aside agreements to open relationships, I have no real way of knowing if someone is a jack-ass who doesn't care or a person who made a mistake.

[Marianne]

I was speaking generally because I don't know much (or anything) about the particular situation in France. As I am unfamiliar with the situation, I don't pretend to have any sort of real opinion on it. And I do agree with you generally in regards to privacy. I do wish these things were more private because I think not letting the nation know would allow the couple to work it out in a way that worked best for them. It's an agreement they have? Cool. It was an indiscretion and they choose to work through it? Cool. He's a serial cheater and she leaves him? Cool.

The main issue I have is that I do believe that cheating says something about your character. When I found out my ex-husband cheated on me, I felt dead inside. It was awful, and I remember thinking, "How could anyone make someone else feel this way? I could NEVER do this to someone." Plenty of people don't care that they are breaking someone else (a spouse/significant other) emotionally and use their power and privilege to take advantage of others sexually*. Those are narcissistic/non-empathetic traits, and I struggle with feeling okay about having someone like that in office.

That being said, I agree with what you said about the Americanization of politics. I wish American politics were less family-oriented because then if a man wanted to sleep with many fully aware and consenting women, he could do so without getting married. Or he could be in an open marriage. Or he could be openly gay instead of having to have a secret affair. Or he could be divorced if things just didn't work out with his wife. But instead, American politicians need to conform to a very specific image that leads to these "scandals" happening.

*I realize that not all affairs are malicious, that sometimes they do happen because of genuine indiscretion and that the person who has an affair may feel incredibly sorry for betraying his/her significant other. That's one reason your discussion of privacy rings true to me, despite the fact that my moralizing doesn't seem compatible with it. Because, in reality, even leaving aside agreements to open relationships, I have no real way of knowing if someone is a jack-ass who doesn't care or a person who made a mistake.

I think that our conclusion could be the same. We would never know what happens in the head and in the couple of our politic. That's why I think we don't have to care because we just can make theory about it, and in the final, the most important is the politics. I also think that we have to be less into the personality of the president, and more about the ideas. For example, Obama seems like a good guy for me - even if he's not my president. So, during years, I had a good idea of him. Then, I read that he supports death penalty, and other things that I'm against, and I was angry against the french media who describe him like the good guy when he supports something that even our fascist party doesn't support ! If the medias have been less in the "look at this smiling guy and his happy family" and more "hey, here what Obama think", I would never have this false idea of him. I really don't like all personality cult around a politic man. I want to know about his idea. His personality ? Doesn't care.

[Arete]

I don't care about the number of children, and I would be perfectly happy not knowing who they or their other parent are or what they look like or do. Nor do I care if an unmarried politician sleeps with a different person every week and three on May Day. But promises and your word of honor matter, whether to a single individual or group of voters. People cheat, and that is life, but that doesn't make breaking a promise acceptable. I do expect a politician to hold themselves to a higher standard than my next door neighbor, because the politician can have thousands and sometimes millions of lives s/he is affecting, so the standard of their character matters more.

[Mama Mia]

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with upcoming politicians who cheat. I don't believe cheating was an issue for either Obama or Bush, so we haven't had someone try to pull off affairs since social media and cameras on every phone became widespread.

Aside from the moral issues I would be very leery of supporting a President who thinks he can discretely cheat in this day and age because it would mean he was either incredibly stupid or an extreme narcissist, or both.

[Vivi_music]

I'm mostly Democrat. I can talk politics with my sister - a bit, because she's way into the crunchy alternative medicine, and if we veer off politics into vaccinating or something, it wouldn't end well. DH is more on the Libertarian/Republican end of the range, although thank God the FOXNews habit has died down. The rest of the family, both mine and husband's, is deep into the Republican end of things. MIL is registered Democrat, or was last I knew, but I'd bet money she votes Republican - that whole family is Catholic/Republican. I avoid talking politics at all with any of them, but I still have to hear the rants about Obama, ACA, abortion, welfare/government money, ad nauseum. Which is especially mindboggling, given DH's nephew on welfare, with 2 premature kids who I'm sure have benefited from government money.

I joke that I could avoid all this headache with 5 words - I'm pretty sure that if I share who I voted for, I'd be close to persona non grata at family dinners.

Ohmy! I understand you so much. It's the same way with my extended family, especially my father's side of the family. Since the age I was able to have my own political opinions, most of my family gatherings have been like that. I felt the exact same way. Sitting there and having to hear them rant about this and that (I'm Canadian, so my family doesn't rant about Obama but you get it! :D ). It's tiring. And I might sound full of myself, but I often feel like I'm taking the higher ground by choosing not to argue with them. Because I feel if it was the other way around, they wouldn't be so tolerant with me.

[Luvmyskinnyjeanz]

Everyone wonders how the crazies make it into power, the answer is simple, all the other crazies actually vote. Even if you don't like it everyone should vote if only to keep the fundamentalist out. They may be a smaller group but if they are the only one voting then their candidate will win.