Maybe fundies should learn from the Mormons...

[YPestis]

Another thread discussing the viability of the fundie lifestyle model made me think of a similar religious group that also values large families: the Mormons.

 

Mormons also stress large families, SAHM, self-employment and single income provider. The only difference is they also encourage their young men to go to college and interact with those heathen outsiders. To me, these two things makes a huge difference in overall financial outlook of their followers. This means a young man, serious about providing for a single income family, can plan from a young age to do well in school, start their own business, or do both! After all, some of the most successful small business owners are educated professionals like doctors and lawyers. This outlook also opens up more job opportunities for young men wanting to provide for a large family.

 

Engineering, finance, medicine, law----these are solid, high paying fields which require training beyond high school. Entering these professions means young men don't have to settle for mowing lawn, raising bees or cutting trees. Sure, one can make a great deal of money doing these things, but there is less job security and a far high chance of making little income off of it.

 

Raising a large family on a single income in the USA, with the expectation of middle class comforts such as multiple bathrooms, health insurance, access to working cars etc, requires an above average income, one which is relatively comfortable and secure. Those types of jobs disproportionately require some type of training beyond high school, sometimes vocational/technical school, many times college and grad school.

 

If I knew I was expected to raise a large family on one income, I'd be aiming not for starting a lawn mowing service but for becoming a physician/lawyer/dentist/investment banker/ect, so that I can be assured of a good, secure income. I may invest (or start) a lawn mowing service once I had that secure job as a way to augment my income stream, but I would prefer a more secure job, so to ensure my family won't starve because the economy dipped.

 

Despite my disagreements with the Mormon Church, I think they are better than the Duggars and Maxwells in encouraging their young people to attain education and enter lucrative professions. This probably increases the chance of passing down the tradition of large families. I believe it's much harder to convince people that large families are good if they have to struggle economically to maintain such a lifestyle. I know plenty of people that would like to have more children, but fear the economic repercussions. I don't think fundies are any different.

 

If a church encourages young people to acquire the tools to provide for a large families, they will see more people continuing such a tradition. The way fundies do it, handicapping their young men educationally while pushing them to have large families, is a formula for poverty and financial ruin. I can imagine many fundie children leaving fundie-dom, even leaving the church, because of the poverty they suffered growing up.

 

In the end, I don't think the quiverfull lifestyle will see growth because they provide contradictory advice to their followers. The second and third generation will suffer for it and the movement will stagnant. The Mormons, and other mainstream conservatives, will see far more success because they offer practicals ways to attain their lifestyle goals. Meanwhile, people like the Maxwells will probably witness the demise of their lifestyle within two generations.

[Arete]

One thing I have to give mainstream Mormons- their children appear to be so much better cared for than the ATI Quiverfull crowd's kids. You see clean and up to date clothes, regular hairstyles, and even in large families no one looks hungry. So many of these ATI kids I see in pictures of their gatherings look...neglected. Thin, clothes in disrepair, so many young girls carting toddlers around. Looks may not be everything, but too many of those ATI families have an air of poverty around them.

[nausicaa]

I do think the greater emphasis on education is their edge. I know it varies by socio-economic level, but at my school the Mormon boys and girls were expected to excel academically. And while the girls may have ultimately become SAHMs, most went to BYU and finished out their degree after getting married. (Most of the ones I know who now homeschool actually majored in early childhood education!)

[Jana814]

I watched a PBS documentary about the Mormons once. They did talk about the emphasize on women staying home. However, they interviewed a woman who was a doctor, & she said that she never had an issue w/ being a Mormon & a doctor. However in ATI they don't do any of that.

[ADoyle90815]

I watched a PBS documentary about the Mormons once. They did talk about the emphasize on women staying home. However, they interviewed a woman who was a doctor, & she said that she never had an issue w/ being a Mormon & a doctor. However in ATI they don't do any of that.

That's true, while the ideal for Mormon women is to be a SAHM, the church does realize that it's not always practical, so the leaders don't really mind if women have to work outside the home. Many Mormon women even finish college, even if they take time off to raise children, which isn't something you see a lot of in fundie families. I agree that education is seen as important in Mormonism, as they expect their children to do well in school, and many Mormons who do homeschool have degrees in education, unlike many fundie homeschoolers. Mormon children, even those in large families do appear to be cared for, and nobody seems to go hungry. That said, I still have my issues with the Mormon church, especially when it comes to gender inequality and their involvement in discrimination like Prop 8.

[lilwriter85]

I do think the greater emphasis on education is their edge. I know it varies by socio-economic level, but at my school the Mormon boys and girls were expected to excel academically. And while the girls may have ultimately become SAHMs, most went to BYU and finished out their degree after getting married. (Most of the ones I know who now homeschool actually majored in early childhood education!)

I have noticed that with some of the Mormon bloggers. I find some Mormon bloggers to be a bit more likable than the ATI and VF fundies.

[emesbe]

One thing I have to give mainstream Mormons- their children appear to be so much better cared for than the ATI Quiverfull crowd's kids. You see clean and up to date clothes, regular hairstyles, and even in large families no one looks hungry. So many of these ATI kids I see in pictures of their gatherings look...neglected. Thin, clothes in disrepair, so many young girls carting toddlers around. Looks may not be everything, but too many of those ATI families have an air of poverty around them.

Mormons will call you out if your children look neglected. Your bishop might offer you help. The Mormons do have a pretty good welfare system.

[DGayle]

That's true, while the ideal for Mormon women is to be a SAHM, the church does realize that it's not always practical, so the leaders don't really mind if women have to work outside the home. Many Mormon women even finish college, even if they take time off to raise children, which isn't something you see a lot of in fundie families. I agree that education is seen as important in Mormonism, as they expect their children to do well in school, and many Mormons who do homeschool have degrees in education, unlike many fundie homeschoolers. Mormon children, even those in large families do appear to be cared for, and nobody seems to go hungry. That said, I still have my issues with the Mormon church, especially when it comes to gender inequality and their involvement in discrimination like Prop 8.

In the last couple years, a huge cavern has opened up. One side has the gay-haters, and the other wise has the people supporting equality. On the blog by that Mormon lady saying Frozen was "homosexual agenda" many of the comments were from Mormons telling her to get bent because there is no good reason to be against equality. I know a disproportionately high number of Mormons for not being one myself, and every last one of them has turned away from the official anti-gay stance. Still Mormon, but they petition for equality. That said, that church still has a lot of problems.

[lilah]

Mormons are a little bit like Orthodox Jews in that they tend to live in tight knit communities that reinforce social norms. Fundies are unusual in how they are so isolated.

[Jana814]

Mormons are a little bit like Orthodox Jews in that they tend to live in tight knit communities that reinforce social norms. Fundies are unusual in how they are so isolated.

True!

[lilwriter85]

Mormons will call you out if your children look neglected. Your bishop might offer you help. The Mormons do have a pretty good welfare system.

I agree with AreteJo, Mormon children do appear to be taken care of. Related to that topic, there are a few Mormon bloggers who seem to neglect their kids in a few ways. One of them is the infamous NieNie. But I think with her, lack of personal safety is a problem. I also remember that a young Mormon mom was discussed her briefly. I remember something about her not using car seats for all of her kids.

[yetanothermeg]

Where I am from, Mormons are not fundies, just mainstream people who don't drink alcohol or caffeine (for the most part). Growing up in suburban southern California I had many Mormon friends, went to slumber parties in their homes, had family bbqs with Mormon neighbors, and as an adult worked with several Mormons who did not stand out as different in any way. The only thing "different" about them, which I didn't even find out about until high school, was the "garments" the adults wore, and again, the only way I found out about those was my friend's older sister was getting married and she told us about them. This was the same friend who once "borrowed" her older sister's ID and bought us alcohol when we were under age (she confessed to her bishop later). There are of course crazy Mormon bloggers, just like there are crazy Catholic bloggers, but on a day to day basis, where I am from, Mormons are pretty unremarkable. Never had a Mormon tell me I am going to hell, but I have had several Evangelical Christians tell me I am.

[emesbe]

I agree with AreteJo, Mormon children do appear to be taken care of. Related to that topic, there are a few Mormon bloggers who seem to neglect their kids in a few ways. One of them is the infamous NieNie. But I think with her, lack of personal safety is a problem. I also remember that a young Mormon mom was discussed her briefly. I remember something about her not using car seats for all of her kids.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about Nienie. Some Mormons are lax on the safety. Part of Mormon belief is that children who die before the age of 8 go directly to the highest level of heaven.

[lilith]

Mormons are a little bit like Orthodox Jews in that they tend to live in tight knit communities that reinforce social norms. Fundies are unusual in how they are so isolated.

I think that's key to their success. Common standards and emotional and financial support within a community makes a big difference, and the home churching Protestant fundamentalists are missing out on a lot of the traditional advantages of tight knit religious communities.

[Katydid]

Where I am from, Mormons are not fundies, just mainstream people who don't drink alcohol or caffeine (for the most part). Growing up in suburban southern California I had many Mormon friends, went to slumber parties in their homes, had family bbqs with Mormon neighbors, and as an adult worked with several Mormons who did not stand out as different in any way. The only thing "different" about them, which I didn't even find out about until high school, was the "garments" the adults wore, and again, the only way I found out about those was my friend's older sister was getting married and she told us about them. This was the same friend who once "borrowed" her older sister's ID and bought us alcohol when we were under age (she confessed to her bishop later). There are of course crazy Mormon bloggers, just like there are crazy Catholic bloggers, but on a day to day basis, where I am from, Mormons are pretty unremarkable. Never had a Mormon tell me I am going to hell, but I have had several Evangelical Christians tell me I am.

This has been my experience with Mormons as well (and also with evangelical Christians).

[flojo]

I'm not Mormon, but my husband's family, who we live with, are. As a result I know a lot of Mormons and will attend pot lucks etc. We are outside Utah though (Midwest), which can influence Mormon culture a bit. In my experience, there is a much, much larger push for educated men. Most of the Mormon men I know at least have a strong trade or a bachelors + trade, but I know a lot who have Masters and PhDs. In my hometown in New Zealand there was also a Mormon school that pushed academics.

I think as well, women's highest calling is seen as wife + mother, but it is still acceptable for women to work outside the house, and I know a lot who do, in jobs ranging from cashier at a big box store to university history professor.

I don't think Mormonism is perfect, but I do think that the culture of getting a good education and the social welfare structure within the church are both excellent and something fundies should follow. Not that they ever would admit to that though, because to most fundies Mormon = worst thing ever!