Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge

[ILoveJellybeans]

I still feel faintly sick. This is possibly the worst thing I have heard him do.

[feministing]

Hey feministing, don't forget what happened with the Tools resignation, you never know at this point what could push another jerk like Gothard to resign!

Jezebel/Gawker should definitely be contacted, they could ensure this goes viral.

Jez and Gawker are great starts, but this has the opportunity to have much wider appeal. After all, who wouldn't be interested in an investigation into a cult scandal, especially one with so many followers, including some famous ones. The conservatives would be interested in reading because they probably know people in the sect, and liberals would get epic schadenfreude by reading about the immense hypocrisy involved.

This is investigative journalism gold right there.

[formergothardite]

The story of him molesting a minor and blaming her for her being sexually abused by her father is going to catch the eyes of mainstream media more than the secretary story. It also sounds like RG has more stories like this.

[Justme]

Is TLC going to be around with their big fire extinguisher?

[mnwnwmwmn]

Doesn't the Basic Course go into detail about what biblical reconciliation looks like? How delicious to have an opportunity to throw that bizarre old man's hypocrisy in his face!

But seriously, like the others, I doubt that much will come of this. The true believers will go on true believing, and IBLP will just continue to slowly bleed out members until it dies a whimpering death. Not that that's a bad thing - scandals and chaos are for important, and Bill Gothard, however much I hate him and however much he wants to think otherwise, was never important outside of his narrow block of followers.

I actually bought the basic and advanced textbooks on ebay a few years ago. They are as vague and nonsensical as his responses to recovering grace. I was really disappointed in the lack of scandalous, or even humerous material in the texts. It would be difficult to pin anything on him using the materials he's published.

Now, for a good laugh, check out his 7 deadly stresses material. Did you know anger causes osteoporosis, and anxiety causes allergies? In Bill's world, they do.

If anyone has the old EXCEL material, I'd love to take a look. It's the only fundie material I can't seem to get my hands on. (Hey, everyone needs a hobby. :stir-pot: )

ETA: I'd also really like to see anything from Hyles-Anderson's marriage and motherhood classes. Just putting that out there. I have a huge fundie media collection. Mostly VF, some ATI/IBLP, and a few random bits of IFB wackiness thrown in. If anyone has any questions about a certain book, conference, or DVD, I"m happy to answer as well as I can while staying on the safe side of copyright laws. Ending thread jack.

[mnwnwmwmn]

Alfred shows what a true believer is reacting. This is just a bunch of bitter people trying to bring down God's man.

There is no doubt that there is a large number of people here who have various reasons to hate Bill Gothard. To see Him fall, all of us that appreciate him deal with the grief of his public humiliation, end of the ministry, would be seen as fulfillment of a lifelong dream . . . for many (not necessarily all). Now I see that what I suspect is the LA Times "archive" is about to be released, plus new information . . . Slowly, to inflict as much damage as possible.

so, we are still left with a man making a number of emotional attachments in the early days to willing, marriageable young women . . . Passions driving him to spend alone time with them "while working" way closer than would be appropriate. Things he would condemn in others. Yet without ever going over the boundary into sexual contact. Things that he resigned over back in the 80's with a confession of “defraudingâ€. When we are done we will be right back where we are today . . . Perhaps with shuttered doors, because an old man can't take it any more?

Those girls wanted it anyway and he never had any penis in vagina sex so it isn't bad. :angry-banghead:

. He is a shepherd, protecting a flock. People who trust him, and for whom his program, principles have formed a basis for their marriage and family. Satan may get some of them . . . he is always on the hunt. Does Jesus care? Oh, I know He cares.

He is just a wise and carring shepherd who wants to protect his followers. Anyone who questions him and leaves has been gotten by Satan.

Unless he lied - and I keep asking for comments - there are practical miracles associated with the ministry . . . Amazing financial miracles . . . Healing . . . Demonic manifestations that were healed . . . Stories we have all heard of a living God doing things only He can do.

IF any of that is true, God has singularly focused on IBLP. He is around

Oh, Alfred, he did lie. Over and over, but you won't see.

Alfred Corduan is almost a bigger Gothard fanboy than Pecan Thief Waller. His name is all over the internet, defending Gothard right and left. Go to almost any Gothard book review on amazon, Alfred will pop up in the comments eventually. I'm sure he's just upset that he's not being asked to give holy handjobs for JC in the back of Gothard's 70's era Oldsmobile.

[CynicMom]

Gothard wouldn't be able to victimize any other women if he was IN JAIL!

I realize there's a statute and that prosecuting this sort of thing is full of bias. But for what it's worth, full justice would be not just media coverage but JAIL TIME. That's the level that this thing rises to.

[tropaka]

I think the folks at Religion Dispatches would be interested in this.

http://www.religiondispatches.org/

[mrs]

I have that feeling of "doom" in the pit of my stomach. My heart aches for the young woman featured at RG.

Anyone else remember the teen who went missing from IBLP headquarters in April(she was later found, viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16857)? I wonder if she was sent to headquarters as an "encouragement" case. IIRC, she had previously fled her family. I pray she isn't a victim.

Anyone think about emailing the local "Patch" news blog?

[lizziesmom]

Gothard wouldn't be able to victimize any other women if he was IN JAIL!

I realize there's a statute and that prosecuting this sort of thing is full of bias. But for what it's worth, full justice would be not just media coverage but JAIL TIME. That's the level that this thing rises to.

Unless these women are willing to testify against him he isn't going to be in jail. Even if they do, there is not guarantee their testimony will be strong enough to convict him. I'm sorry to be so cynical, but lately rape trials end up in tragedy for the victims even with a conviction. Our society seems to think women 'ask for it' and it's all on us to keep the menfolk in line. Until that thinking/culture changes I don't blame any woman for refusing to be revictimized in a courtroom setting.

[Talitha Cumi]

The story of him molesting a minor and blaming her for her being sexually abused by her father is going to catch the eyes of mainstream media more than the secretary story. It also sounds like RG has more stories like this.

Especially if the Duggars are consistently tied to ATI. Most people have heard of the Duggars. It's the natural entry point to the story. Bonus points if there's a picture of the family accompanying the articles.

ETA: Have any of the older girls worked at HQ?

[TrueRebel1]

When I first saw this thread yesterday, I was so excited! To have ATI/Bill Gothard be exposed for what it is?!?! It would make me so happy to see people have this burden lifted from their life, and to have a chance to see the truth!

But then I thought, what do the typical ATI-ers do when anyone in their circles is caught in wrongdoing? They simply convince themselves that it's just that specific person falling into sin at that particular time. They don't see the connection between their "religion" (ATI) and the outcome in their lives. So honestly, even though I truly hope that every follower of Bill Gothard gives up on ATI, I don't realistically see that happening. A few may leave, but the majority will chalk up the stories to BG falling into some temptation just recently-- they will feel sorry for him and pray for him-- but they won't see his sin as being related to, or caused by, his teachings and lifestyle. They will remain devout ATI-ers, in my opinion.

[formergothardite]

I don't think this will shake the True Believers, but if we can get it to the mainstream media along with the Duggar connection it will shake up the Duggar family and give people an idea of what they really believe. The Duggars have spoken at ATI conferences. Pretty sure even the daughters have spoken at events. Unless they can get recent stories of him doing illegal things along with people who are willing to press charges I don't think that this will bring down Gothard. It might cut down on his membership and he will have to deal with a lot of public shaming, but as long as he can stay out of jail he will survive.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Wow--I fall out of the loop for a while and I miss all this! I'm so glad one of you FJers emailed me the link to this thread and let me know.

I write a blog connected with the Chicago Tribune on ChicagoNow, and I've made a few posts about ATI (remember that girl who ran away?) and the Duggars that still get Google hits and comments, just because my blog gets good Google rankings if I use proper SEO.

So--long story short, I would be really glad to make a post about this because for Pete's sake, this sort of thing is happening right outside of Chicago, and most of us here don't know about it. I WANT this story to blow up, because the abuse needs to end and get justice.

Heck, I could even do a series.

I'm trying to think about the right angle to go about it. Of course, there's simply the "Look at what's going on so close to Chicago, and why hasn't anything been done about it?" angle that I can write, myself (once I catch up on all the RG posts again), but I would be glad to host guest bloggers, too. Bonus points if you're from Chicago/area.

I'm putting this up for brainstorming. And also, I'm not sure if this is good etiquette, but I probably should share my posts/blog on here for you guys to make it easier to get better feedback--but I'll delete if it's bad form.

http://www.chicagonow.com/running-with- ... ild-abuse/

http://www.chicagonow.com/running-with- ... dangerous/

I like to shed light on child abuse that most people refuse to acknowledge or don't know about--including religious/cultic abuse so it would totally fit in my general blog theme.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Or one other thought--I honestly don't know if anyone at the Trib has done a story, but I can ask my ChicagoNow community manager and see if he knows of anyone he works with that might be willing to do an investigative piece. But at the very least, if something gets started on a local level, then the bigger networks can pick it up and do their own investigation, you know?

It doesn't have to be my blog, but I thought I'd volunteer it if it would be helpful to get more light shining on it--make it more compelling for journalists to investigate.

[tropaka]

I am caring less about the Duggar's involvement (although it needs to come out, didn't Gothard actually visit their home at some point?), and more that this is exposed far and wide both in and outside of ATI/IBLP so this creep doesn't get to molest any more young girls/women. It is disturbing and entirely indicative of these young girls' mindsets/brainwashing that one of "Charlotte's" witnesses was initially worried that Charlotte would ruin Gothard's reputation, not that Charlotte should be protected. If some of the higher ups at IBLP have shuffled staff to keep girls away from him they've got to own some of the blame for this. (Shit, abuse in almost any Church group and the cover ups to protect the "brand" are so disappointingly similar).

[SamuraiKatz]

This has the potential to be up there with the Catholic Church priest abuse cases. Gothard has had 40 plus years of young women to molest.

What would blow Gothard out of the water would be a Bates or Duggar daughter coming forward with an abuse allegation.

[Patsy]

This has the potential to be up there with the Catholic Church priest abuse cases. Gothard has had 40 plus years of young women to molest.

What would blow Gothard out of the water would be a Bates or Duggar daughter coming forward with an abuse allegation.

...he hasn't raped anyone, much less thousands (millions?) He's abusive scum, but this is no way near "up there".

[SamuraiKatz]

...he hasn't raped anyone, much less thousands (millions?) He's abusive scum, but this is no way near "up there".

He hasn't raped anyone that we know of....shame keeps people quiet...especially in the patriarchal Gothard/VF culture.

[DifferentGurl]

Is TLC going to be around with their big fire extinguisher?

I wouldn't be surprised if they just ignored the whole thing, praying the problem will just go away if they don't mention it or pay attention to it. Look at all the anti-gay stuff Smuggar has said or the "Abortion = Holocaust" JimBoob has said. They never even wrote a statement saying that they don't agree with the Duggar's beliefs. At least A&E and ABC gave statements when one of their stars said something homophobic. Smugger has said plenty of anti-gay stuff and no statement from TLC has come.

So yea, I would not be surprised if they just don't mention the Gothard scandal and try to hide the Duggar's affiliations like they are doing with Smuggar and his affiliation with the Family Research Council.

[miffy]

I'm wondering if this is why JB isn't on the ATI board? It's much easier to say 'I didn't know nuthin' if you weren't on the board. I'm sure he knows that there is more money and power to be had amongst the Washington crowd than the ATI drones?

[Justme]

I'm wondering if this is why JB isn't on the ATI board? It's much easier to say 'I didn't know nuthin' if you weren't on the board. I'm sure he knows that there is more money and power to be had amongst the Washington crowd than the ATI drones?

Maybe 'cause he's actually have to WORK.... :roll: :lol:

[Cleopatra7]

Maybe 'cause he's actually have to WORK.... :roll: :lol:

This makes a lot of sense. I've always thought that the Duggars were a Trojan Horse for ATI, and were given permission to slack off on some of the details of Gothardism in exchange for making the cult seem palpable to mainstream Christians.

[miffy]

Maybe 'cause he's actually have to WORK.... :roll: :lol:

Not always, my friends dad is on the board for a large Australian company because his family used to own another company which was absorbed. He fits it in with being a partner at a --- firm. From what I gather it's just meetings and picking up a (big) cheque. :lol:

[feministing]

Jana worked at the HQ. I am sure others did as well, but I know of Jana for sure.

They filmed several big sandy conferences on the show

They went on JTTH (someone please screenshot the JTTH pics with the duggar girls before they are magically erased from the Internet - heck , maybe they can appear in the article as proof of the Duggars involvement. Also that huge pic with Jana and Gothard at the prison ministry. Someone needs to save/screenshot that pic! They'll scrub that like they scrubbed the evidence of blanket training.

There are pics with Jana and Gothard even.

The Chicago tribune is a great start because it's local, and other papers can pick it up. Props to working on it!