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Bill Gothard Ousted - IBLP/ATI scandal - Merge


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Over on Recovering Grace everyone is saying how they don't hate BG, they don't despise him, they just want to see him repent and step down. Because it wouldn't be christian to wish ill upon a brother in christ, right?

Well, I am not a xtian any longer so I have only posted there once or twice, but I will come out and say it here: I fucking hate Bill Gothard and hope he rots in hell for eternity. Only...I don't believe in hell anymore, either :cry: , so I would settle for a decade or two in prison. His teachings turned my slightly dysfunctional parents into totally toxic and abusive torturers, and I will never know what kind of person I could have been had they not by chance stepped into his Basic Seminar twenty years ago. If I could be in a room with him for ten minutes, he would come out a lesser man than he already is.

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I can't post at RG. I admire the work they do but they are still very, very fundie. Prison, his ministry folding, all his followers turning on him and public humiliation would work for me. Don't care if he repents during all this. I don't think they need to worry about if they followed Matthew 18 either. Their dealing when a man who is accused of covering a child being molested and molesting her himself, if God is real I don't think he cares if they went and talked to him and the board first.

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I read RG's call to repentance and wanted to shout "Forget about following Matthew 18 this stuff is criminal!" :pull-hair:

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Even if the Matt 18 argument is valid, they've been there and done that and its time to move on to the next step.

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It seems like from reading the comments that Charlotte still has some legal options for going after Gothard. I hope she does and that nobody makes her feel like she is violating some biblical principle for doing so. I think that they just need one person to start it and then there will be more who will come forward with illegal things he has done.

I don't think he will ever repent. I don't think he will ever admit that his actions were bad. He has had 40 years to repent, time for justice. Time for his evil empire that has destroyed the lives of many to come crashing down on him.

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It seems like from reading the comments that Charlotte still has some legal options for going after Gothard. I hope she does and that nobody makes her feel like she is violating some biblical principle for doing so. I think that they just need one person to start it and then there will be more who will come forward with illegal things he has done.

I don't think he will ever repent. I don't think he will ever admit that his actions were bad. He has had 40 years to repent, time for justice. Time for his evil empire that has destroyed the lives of many to come crashing down on him.

The majority of the comments on RG piss me off because:

1. I really don't give a damn about biblical principles.

2. I don't think that Gothard will ever "repent."

I believe the victims and think he has committed both sexual harassment and child molestation, but quite aside from feeling no guilt for his actions he won't repent publically because that would be an admission of guilt in the eyes of the law. He will be advised by counsel (and I bet he has a whole team of excellent lawyers) not to admit to anything to RG. Anything at all!

If all RG wants is Christian repentance then they should shut up now before they get sued by Gothard, accused of coaching accusers, or worse. They can still direct any others who come forward to appropriate experienced attorneys.

"Charlotte" has been offered help by the person posting as "licensed attorney" over on RG. Licensed Attorney got attacked in the comments but, IMO, Charlotte should certainly take that help or find her own attorney.

Disclaimer: not a lawyer myself this is a commonsense reaction -- all the victims would do better to be speaking to LE or an attorney rather than telling their stories to RG. Whether or not their cases are beyond the SOL they might still help to build a case in conjunction with others.

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Oh, I'm sure that Gothard has some excellent lawyers and there is no way in the world he will meet with a RG team and talk about any of this while being recorded. They seem to think that Gothard holds himself to some sort of Christian values so they can get him to sit down and talk this out, but he doesn't. He is above all the rules in his mind.

Charlotte needs to contact a lawyer and get this ball rolling. And hope that her participation on RG won't hurt her case. I hope that they contacted a lawyer before posting that.

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Yeah, its good that they came out with their story, as it has exposed what a horrible man Gothard is and encouraged other girls who have been abused to come forward and realise they aren't alone, but someone needs to go to the police so some real justice can come to him.

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I can't post at RG. I admire the work they do but they are still very, very fundie. Prison, his ministry folding, all his followers turning on him and public humiliation would work for me. Don't care if he repents during all this. I don't think they need to worry about if they followed Matthew 18 either. Their dealing when a man who is accused of covering a child being molested and molesting her himself, if God is real I don't think he cares if they went and talked to him and the board first.

All his followers are not going to turn on him and I doubt that the majority of the public even knows much about him. His 'ministry' isn't going to fold. Way too much money involved. I'm sure Gothard has a special snowflake lined up to take over when he is gone. The best way to bring him down is to sue.

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I think Gothard would be about as likely to repent while in prison as while out. That is, not likely.

yes but his touching choices are far more limited

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^ Sure. Hence, I think if RG is aiming for repentance, they're doomed to disappointment. Civil or criminal charges seem like a more plausible outcome to me.

To quote someone at Stuff Fundies Like on how to counter Matthew 18, "Luke 13:32. Did Jesus have a face-to-face sit-down with Herod before calling him a fox?"

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Charlotte does not need a private attorney if she pressing charges. A private attorney has no power to bring charges- he could sue for damages if there was a case, but I still think this stuff is more ethical than legal

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Charlotte does not need a private attorney if she pressing charges. A private attorney has no power to bring charges- he could sue for damages if there was a case, but I still think this stuff is more ethical than legal

I think the (alleged) child molestation would be a criminal case, the (alleged) sexual harassment would a civil case, and the ethical/moral stuff can be argued on RG!

The DA not the victim presses charges in a criminal case. My commonsense also says that there is good reason to consult with a private attorney (first consultations are usually free) even before going to a DA. A good attorney will advise, give a reality check and can comfort and reassure even if they are not the ones taking the case.

A private attorney would be necessary for the civil case and part of their job is to give the victim a reality check as to how good their case is and how emotionally hard (and expensive!) the process will be. Even if the attorney takes the case pro bono that won't cover a lot of the other expenses.

I'd think getting on record ASAP with a private attorney would be essential especially if more victims/survivors are coming forward. But, again, I'm not a lawyer. :)

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If I told my parents that a religious leader touched me like that, my father would cut his dick off and choke him with it. I'm no even joking or over exaggerating.

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What about that Louis guy who did documentaries? Think he might be interested?

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[

The majority of the comments on RG piss me off because:

1. I really don't give a damn about biblical principles.

2. I don't think that Gothard will ever "repent."

christian punishment is no punishment it is just repenting till they do it again. we have seen this many times with abusers and rapists and child molesters.

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He will probably become the touchee and not the toucher. :o

I'm not usually one to be glib about prison rape (the punishment of prison is isolation from society, NOT becoming a sexual assault victim), but I doubt that even the most hardened, long term prisoner would be sexually frustrated enough to make Gothard the target of his affections. Good god, the man looks like an animated corpse. So unless he was unfortunate enough to be paired with a necrophile I think he'd be safe from unwanted sexual attentions.

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What about that Louis guy who did documentaries? Think he might be interested?

You mean Louis Theroux? I'm not sure he's one for breaking a scandal, his style is more just letting the crazy speak for itself.

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I'm not usually one to be glib about prison rape (the punishment of prison is isolation from society, NOT becoming a sexual assault victim), but I doubt that even the most hardened, long term prisoner would be sexually frustrated enough to make Gothard the target of his affections. Good god, the man looks like an animated corpse. So unless he was unfortunate enough to be paired with a necrophile I think he'd be safe from unwanted sexual attentions.

Lol :D :D :D

He does look like an animated corpse. There is just something really off about the way he looks, in a really creepy "Run away from this guy now!" kinda way.

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I think the (alleged) child molestation would be a criminal case, the (alleged) sexual harassment would a civil case, and the ethical/moral stuff can be argued on RG!

The DA not the victim presses charges in a criminal case. My commonsense also says that there is good reason to consult with a private attorney (first consultations are usually free) even before going to a DA. A good attorney will advise, give a reality check and can comfort and reassure even if they are not the ones taking the case.

A private attorney would be necessary for the civil case and part of their job is to give the victim a reality check as to how good their case is and how emotionally hard (and expensive!) the process will be. Even if the attorney takes the case pro bono that won't cover a lot of the other expenses.

I'd think getting on record ASAP with a private attorney would be essential especially if more victims/survivors are coming forward. But, again, I'm not a lawyer. :)

If the child molestation to which you refer is Charlotte's, then it happened in 1991. Charlotte states she was born in 1975. Was there another case? I admit I am not following Recovering Grace closely as I don't eenj

I don't know... this stuff just seems mostly creepy and not quite illegal (not saying it shouldn't be). One thing you can credit the VF'ers for is that whatever Doug the Toll did, they took action and ousted him. Creepy B's people seem to protect him.

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I'm not usually one to be glib about prison rape (the punishment of prison is isolation from society, NOT becoming a sexual assault victim), but I doubt that even the most hardened, long term prisoner would be sexually frustrated enough to make Gothard the target of his affections. Good god, the man looks like an animated corpse. So unless he was unfortunate enough to be paired with a necrophile I think he'd be safe from unwanted sexual attentions.

I went on vacation with my family last summer, and we stopped at a wax museum. Two of the exhibits there looked exactly like Gothard, I kid you not.

Every time I see his face now, I always think of that museum.

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Maybe he isn't real and is just made of wax, and people prop him up standing in various places at his events (explaining why he never changes and looks the same in every photo). But this wax figure got possessed by the spirit of a pedophile (sort of like Chucky) and just pretends to not be real when people are around.

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