The Masculine Mystique

[dirtyhippiegirl]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... t-mrm.html ---) link

 

Interesting/informative take on the moderate versus radical members.

[Angharad Crewe]

This was a good article. One of the most frustrating things about the MRM is that occasionally they bring up real issues that men face, but then they derail themselves by writing such poisonous rants about women.

I liked how the author noted that most legitimate father's rights and male domestic violence groups have distanced themselves from the men's rights movement.

I've seen several people comment here and on other sites that the issues of men's rights will be resolved by feminism, but I don't really see that happening. Feminism by its very name is more focused on women's issues and women's rights advocacy. I would definitely support a movement that advocated for issues that men face, as long as that movement was not the dreadful thing that our friends like SSM, JB, A Voice for Men, and Roosh have made it.

[dirtyhippiegirl]

This was a good article. One of the most frustrating things about the MRM is that occasionally they bring up real issues that men face, but then they derail themselves by writing such poisonous rants about women.

I liked how the author noted that most legitimate father's rights and male domestic violence groups have distanced themselves from the men's rights movement.

I've seen several people comment here and on other sites that the issues of men's rights will be resolved by feminism, but I don't really see that happening. Feminism by its very name is more focused on women's issues and women's rights advocacy. I would definitely support a movement that advocated for issues that men face, as long as that movement was not the dreadful thing that our friends like SSM, JB, A Voice for Men, and Roosh have made it.

I also don't see feminism solving men's issues, which I also *do* see as legitimate issues. (I am watching my older brother struggle through a horrible divorce. Kids are involved. He's a fairly important lawyer in the community and still has very little legal recourse. So this gives me some empathy, I guess?)

And I openly identify as a feminist and get kind of weirded out when my presumably voting, job-working, property-owning female peers do not identify as feminists. I am definitely NOT a radical feminist for reasons that make me angry just thinking about them. But yeah.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Good article.

The sad thing is that there really are legitimate areas where men DO experience gender-bias, and the effects are often harmful to not just them but also to children involved.

Even though I can give first-hand testimony about the fact that institutional biases against fathers/men still exist in a system which is supposed to be gender-neutral, there is simply no way that I would ever do so for a MRM or "fathers' rights group", because of their reputation for being angry radicals.

Ultimately, I don't describe my position as being pro-woman or pro-man. Instead, I say that I support children's rights and protection, that I am opposed to all forms of domestic violence and that I believe that everyone has the right to be safe. I'm also opposed to making decisions based on gender stereotypes as opposed to reality, and to rigid gender roles. In some cases, I see some men going through similar struggles to what women faced a generation ago - laughter and disbelief at the thought that domestic violence could be a real issue, lack of awareness and resources for victims of violence, lack of understanding of parental leave and the need for workplace flexibility, etc. For the most part, though, THESE ARE NOT ISSUES CAUSED BY FEMINISM. While I do have issues with a few organizations and shelters, the larger problem is sexist and heterosexist gender roles and assumptions, that get in the way of dealing with reality.

[Ameliorata]

I'm not sure I agree that feminism won't solve at least some of the issues and discriminations that men face today. I suppose it depends on how you view feminism perhaps? I've always seen feminism as working towards gender equality. Equal rights and equal obligations. And I think a lot of the problems men face today is due to gender inequality.

Fathers are less likely to gain custody of their kids or get shared custody because women are often automatically seen as the natural primary caretakers of children. Men have a much harder time getting acceptance for being stay-at-home-dads or taking parental leave when their children are born, even if that's what they want and are good at, because that's what women do and men are supposed to be the main bread winner. Men who are raped or abused are not taken seriously by police or society in general and are thus less likely to report and get help, because in a patriarchal society men are supposed to be the strong aggressor and so being raped/abused = feminine = weak = ridiculous if you're a man.

Things that are traditionally associated with women tend to be viewed as "less" in today's society because women are still viewed as "less" and that affects both men and women negatively IMO. Feminism is a tool to move away from this attitude and I do believe it's something that benefits both genders. If women are not viewed as weak or bad or less than men there would be no shame for men doing or being things that are traditonally viewed as feminine, and then maybe people would just get on with doing things they are good at and enjoy without letting their penis or lack thereof get in the way. /end idealistic and probably unrealistic (for now) rant.

[RosyDaisy]

If he doesn't give a flying fuck, then why the hell did he make a 7 minute YouTube video about not giving a fuck. He obviously must or he wouldn't have made that video. So who's the real winner here? I don't think it's Mr. I Don't Give a Flying Fuck.

[Terrie]

I think feminism does help men in many ways. Domestic violence and rape are really about the idea that having more power gives you more rights. If you have the power to hurt someone, you have the right to hurt them. Really, at their core, all systematic -isms are about power=rights to one extent or another. So when you challenge male-on-female violence at an ideological level, you're also challenging male-on-male, female-on-male and female-on-female violence.

Additionally, under a sexist system, victim=lesser=not male. Without feminism, male victims can't be both male and victims. They must be one or the other.