Judge makes parents change kid's name from Messiah

[Emme]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tenn ... h-19931569

Not breaking the link because it's ABC News. I thought this was fucked up. The parents were in court because they couldn't agree on a last name, and when the judge heard the first name he ordered them to change it because "The word Messiah is a title and it's a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ," the judge said." According to the article, Messiah was No. 4 among the fastest-rising baby names in 2012, according to the Social Security Administration's annual list of popular baby names.

What's she going to do next? Hunt down all the hispanic kids named Jesus? This is what happens when we don't separate church and state! I wouldn't name my kid Messiah, but I hope the mom gets the right to name her kid, and doesn't have to deal with one judge's religious beliefs dictating her kid's freaking name.

[rward]

Messiah is one of the most ridiculous names I've ever heard, but FIRST AMENDMENT!

[Peas n carrots]

All involved are morons, but the judge really infuriates me. Good point about Jesus though!

[DarkAnts]

All involved are morons, but the judge really infuriates me. Good point about Jesus though!

The judge is a tool for trying to force their religious view on the family .

[sparkles]

It would be nice if parents would, you know, actually take their children into consideration when saddling them with a name that might bring potential ridicule down the line, but in the overall scheme of things, it's really no one else's business and it's just not that big a deal. The judge, however, is definitely overstepping his authority and really needs to STFU.

And is Messiah any worse than Madonna? Or (as I heard in some program on HGTV) Adonai?

[salsa]

What business is it of the court to monitor what parents name their children

1) I wouldn't use it, but what's wrong with Messiah? or Emmanuel, or Emmanuelle, or Evangeline, or Jesus (Hispanic and otherwise) or any forms of Christ- (Christa, Christian, Christy, Christine ...)

2) As to "Messiah" being a title: Back in the day, and a little bit still today, African American parents would name their children with titles. It was because blacks had to address whites by saying "Mr.or Mrs" or whatever their title was but whites called blacks by their first names. That way, by naming a child, say "Doctor" or "Judge" or "Queen" when they were addressed by their first name, it was an honorific. ..... so, the judge is wrong on that count, too

3) I also recognize that I wouldn't name my kid "Adolf Hitler" or "Aryan Nation" or anything like that. (but I side with the Wal mart bakery workers a couple years ago who couldn't bring themselves to make the cake for little Adolf Hitler - remember that?)

[sparkles]

What business is it of the court to monitor what parents name their children

1) I wouldn't use it, but what's wrong with Messiah? or Emmanuel, or Emmanuelle, or Evangeline, or Jesus (Hispanic and otherwise) or any forms of Christ- (Christa, Christian, Christy, Christine ...)

2) As to "Messiah" being a title: Back in the day, and a little bit still today, African American parents would name their children with titles. It was because blacks had to address whites by saying "Mr.or Mrs" or whatever their title was but whites called blacks by their first names. That way, by naming a child, say "Doctor" or "Judge" or "Queen" when they were addressed by their first name, it was an honorific. ..... so, the judge is wrong on that count, too

3) I also recognize that I wouldn't name my kid "Adolf Hitler" or "Aryan Nation" or anything like that. (but I side with the Wal mart bakery workers a couple years ago who couldn't bring themselves to make the cake for little Adolf Hitler - remember that?)

Okay, I'm going with the unpopular opinion here--and I DO most emphatically think that naming a child after one of history's most reviled maniacs is odious--but why do you (general you) think that refusing to DO YOUR JOB by complying with the request is in any way different from, say, a pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription for birth control because he doesn't believe in contraception? (I know you can't really compare these two scenarios but let's just run with it here.) In both cases you could argue that the employee involved is out of line for allowing his personal beliefs to prevent him from fulfilling a perfectly legal request. And the bottom line is that if your knickers are going to get ruffled every time you don't agree with something that's PART OF YOUR JOB, you really need to find a line of work where it will always be unicorns and rainbows and no one will ever, ever require you to violate your special snowflake beliefs. Both the pharmacist AND the cake decorator are in the wrong, IMO.

[Mela99]

Really trying to see where the judge claims she has authority for this.

Parents - go find another judge.

[Khan]

I agree with Sparkles on the idea that it's part of the job. Those kids working in fast food that have to take names with orders then call them out are not allowed to object, either. "Satan, your cheeseburger combo is up!"

If you want to name your kid something that I think is spiteful, be my guest. Hopefully these poor kids can get legal name changes once they are old enough to be embarrassed.

[laura oz]

Is it any worse than Apple? I mean Jason Lee from My Name is Earl named his kid Pilot Inspektor. :roll:

[bookiewookie]

Is it any worse than Apple? I mean Jason Lee from My Name is Earl named his kid Pilot Inspektor. :roll:

I went to school with a few people whose parents clearly had not taken their offspring's future happiness into account. One's parents really liked a colour and named her that (I won't share her actual name to protect her privacy, but it was on par with naming your baby Hot Pink). Another was named after a food product, though her parents claim it was unintentional (first name + last name combine to make the name of the food). Neither of them changed it upon reaching adulthood since they'd both become resigned to the jokes/puns/teasing.

[JMarie]

It would be nice if parents would, you know, actually take their children into consideration when saddling them with a name that might bring potential ridicule down the line, but in the overall scheme of things, it's really no one else's business and it's just not that big a deal. The judge, however, is definitely overstepping his authority and really needs to STFU.

And is Messiah any worse than Madonna? Or (as I heard in some program on HGTV) Adonai?

Madonna was named after her mother.

[yetanothermeg]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/tenn-judge-childs-messiah-19931569

What's she going to do next? Hunt down all the hispanic kids named Jesus?

This actually happened in my family in early-20th century New Mexico. It had been the tradition in my Hispano (Spanish settler) family to name the first-born son Jesus. I don't know all the details, but when they went to register the birth, the Anglo authority in question wouldn't let them register the name Jesus. The tradition died and my ancestor was named something else.

[salsa]

Okay, I'm going with the unpopular opinion here--and I DO most emphatically think that naming a child after one of history's most reviled maniacs is odious--but why do you (general you) think that refusing to DO YOUR JOB by complying with the request is in any way different from, say, a pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription for birth control because he doesn't believe in contraception? (I know you can't really compare these two scenarios but let's just run with it here.) In both cases you could argue that the employee involved is out of line for allowing his personal beliefs to prevent him from fulfilling a perfectly legal request. And the bottom line is that if your knickers are going to get ruffled every time you don't agree with something that's PART OF YOUR JOB, you really need to find a line of work where it will always be unicorns and rainbows and no one will ever, ever require you to violate your special snowflake beliefs. Both the pharmacist AND the cake decorator are in the wrong, IMO.

You are quite right and I actually agree with you and I would have gritted my teeth and written the name on the cake. I still sympathize with them and don't think that an $8 per hour employee, who experiences plenty of disrespectful behavior from customers all the time is in the same position as a pharmacist, who is already in a position of authority and respect. Yes, both are doing a job and need to put their personal beliefs aside, but as you point out, it's not a parallel comparison.

On the other side, lots of obstetricians do not perform abortions because of their moral stance. Could a woman, as a consumer, go into one such ob's office and demand one? (well, they get around that by never learning how to do them, but that's even more of a digression) As one who is currently working in a low-level position, however, I can attest to my personal distaste for certain manifestations of opinions that I find objectionable, I do not have enough authority to try to influence anyone's morality. When people hand me tracts, I take them and say, "thank you." When someone tries to witness to me, I smile with a blank look on my face and only if the person gets all right-wing-in-your-face do I say, "I don't see things the same way." Just because I'm a captive audience who's stuck behind a cash register doesn't mean that my personhood does not count.

It's kind of like the old-fashioned discipline method whereby the parent makes the child go out and cut his/her own switch. The power is one-sided and there's an added element of forcing the "under" one to be humiliated as well, with the hourly employee metaphorically commanded to go cut his/her switch, endure the whipping (which, in the case of an African American writing Adolf Hitler on a cake would feel like a whipping), and say, "Have a nice day."

I don't remember if those employees were fired or not, but I think they should have been disciplined with a great deal of mercy, under the circumstances. When I was a boss, I would have.

/ thread derailment (at least from me) - just wanted to try to illustrate why I don't believe it's that cut-and-dried

[nelliebelle1197]

You are quite right and I actually agree with you and I would have gritted my teeth and written the name on the cake. I still sympathize with them and don't think that an $8 per hour employee, who experiences plenty of disrespectful behavior from customers all the time is in the same position as a pharmacist, who is already in a position of authority and respect. Yes, both are doing a job and need to put their personal beliefs aside, but as you point out, it's not a parallel comparison.

On the other side, lots of obstetricians do not perform abortions because of their moral stance. Could a woman, as a consumer, go into one such ob's office and demand one? (well, they get around that by never learning how to do them, but that's even more of a digression) As one who is currently working in a low-level position, however, I can attest to my personal distaste for certain manifestations of opinions that I find objectionable, I do not have enough authority to try to influence anyone's morality. When people hand me tracts, I take them and say, "thank you." When someone tries to witness to me, I smile with a blank look on my face and only if the person gets all right-wing-in-your-face do I say, "I don't see things the same way." Just because I'm a captive audience who's stuck behind a cash register doesn't mean that my personhood does not count.

It's kind of like the old-fashioned discipline method whereby the parent makes the child go out and cut his/her own switch. The power is one-sided and there's an added element of forcing the "under" one to be humiliated as well, with the hourly employee metaphorically commanded to go cut his/her switch, endure the whipping (which, in the case of an African American writing Adolf Hitler on a cake would feel like a whipping), and say, "Have a nice day."

I don't remember if those employees were fired or not, but I think they should have been disciplined with a great deal of mercy, under the circumstances. When I was a boss, I would have.

/ thread derailment (at least from me) - just wanted to try to illustrate why I don't believe it's that cut-and-dried

So someone's education levels and salary give them more moral authority than that of a laborer just by virtue of a bank account and some degrees? Please tell me I am reading this wrong because I really hope that is not what you mean.

[DarkAnts]

This actually happened in my family in early-20th century New Mexico. It had been the tradition in my Hispano (Spanish settler) family to name the first-born son Jesus. I don't know all the details, but when they went to register the birth, the Anglo authority in question wouldn't let them register the name Jesus. The tradition died and my ancestor was named something else.

I once saw Jesus selling corn on the side of the road in Rio Rancho. The sign said corn grown by Jesus. The missionaries that come by give me a disapproving look when I tell them that I found Jesus selling corn on the side of the road.

[Ms Lucy Fur]

I just read this on gawker and while this is utterly ridiculous, considering where this occured, I'm not too shocked. Cocke Co. Tn used to be (maybe still is) one of the chop shop capital of America and yes, they have cock fights in Cocke county and you can't sling a dead cat without hitting a church of some sort of denomintation. It would be nice for my little area of Appalachia to stay out of the news of the crazy, even for just a bit. The mother is appealing, thank goodness, but not before several people will be on local television applauding the good Chancellor's decision. OY!

[micatite]

This one is definitely a 'decision' just begging to be overturned. Hopefully the judge gets sanctioned too, for overstepping authority.

[SpeakNow]

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1424081

The parents of young Messiah went to court because they couldn't agree on his last name. When the judge heard the first name she ordered that it be changed to Martin because "The word Messiah is a title and it’s a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ."

[SpeakNow]

Just saw the other thread on this. My bad. Feel free to delete this one

[Ms Lucy Fur]

Rapper T.I. has a son named Messiah. I agree it is a ridiculous name, but I have heard a lot worse. (Jerusalem Song, Vision O'yweh and any of the epistimelogically named progeny).

[EmmieJ]

The judge made an error in this ruling, and if the parents choose to take this case to the next level, the ruling will most certainly be overturned. The judge cannot impose his own particular religious beliefs on anyone. The name Messiah is not offensive (in the way that Adolph Hitler is generally accepted as truly offensive). My son told me about this case last night and asked whether I thought the judge was right or wrong. I told him the same thing - the judge was wrong. As others have noted, people name their children Jesus, Angel, Mohammed, and so on, all the time. I see nothing wrong with doing so.

Anyway - the judge is very wrong and his decision would be quickly overturned if the parents appeal. I hope they do.

[moodygirl86]

Okay, I'm going with the unpopular opinion here--and I DO most emphatically think that naming a child after one of history's most reviled maniacs is odious--but why do you (general you) think that refusing to DO YOUR JOB by complying with the request is in any way different from, say, a pharmacist who refuses to fill a prescription for birth control because he doesn't believe in contraception? (I know you can't really compare these two scenarios but let's just run with it here.) In both cases you could argue that the employee involved is out of line for allowing his personal beliefs to prevent him from fulfilling a perfectly legal request. And the bottom line is that if your knickers are going to get ruffled every time you don't agree with something that's PART OF YOUR JOB, you really need to find a line of work where it will always be unicorns and rainbows and no one will ever, ever require you to violate your special snowflake beliefs. Both the pharmacist AND the cake decorator are in the wrong, IMO.

Also, I don't think it should have been about the cake decorator and their beliefs. It was about the kid whose birthday it was. Yeah, I think the parents asking for Adolph Hitler Campbell to be put on the cake was blatant attention seeking, but in the end it's not the kid's fault he's got twats for parents. If I'd been working in the shop, I would have put the requested message on the cake and ranted about the rights and wrongs of it to colleagues/drinking mates later on.

[Arete]

Look, if you are going to stop African Americans from naming their kids Messiah, then you need to stop Greek Americans from naming their little boys "Christo", which also means messiah.

Judge is a hose beast and the ruling should be appealed.

[Hane]

Madonna was named after her mother.

And Madonna is a not-uncommon name for Italian Catholic girls--I met one when I was in high school.