Mary Winkler

[treemom]

But hadn't she also lost a lot of money to gambling or a Nigerian Scam that was part of their problem?

He did not know about that prior to that night.

It was Nigerian scam

[javafriend]

In the paperback about the crime, there was no mention of the Nigerian scam. The author talked about Mary depositing scam sweepstakes checks into an account she opened in her name only and then writing bad checks on that account. The author also raised concerns about the quality of the investigation at the time Mary was picked up - specifically about searching her vehicle.

By the way, the paperback is called, "The Pastor's Wife" and it was written by Diane Fanning.

[VVV]

http://blog.eyesforlies.com/2007/04/mar ... -case.html

[Caramel]

In the paperback about the crime, there was no mention of the Nigerian scam. The author talked about Mary depositing scam sweepstakes checks into an account she opened in her name only and then writing bad checks on that account.

That, essentially, is a Nigerian scam aka The Spanish Prisoner con.

[treemom]

In the paperback about the crime, there was no mention of the Nigerian scam. The author talked about Mary depositing scam sweepstakes checks into an account she opened in her name only and then writing bad checks on that account. The author also raised concerns about the quality of the investigation at the time Mary was picked up - specifically about searching her vehicle.

By the way, the paperback is called, "The Pastor's Wife" and it was written by Diane Fanning.

That is the Nigerian scam. It isn't always a prince. Specifically the scammers originated in Nigeria.

And I don't know about her vehicle. But my husband did all of the digital forensics. They can question that but, well they would be wrong. Besides, the digital forensics were mostly not allowed in the trial and I think pretty unpublicized so she wouldn't know anyhow.

[Arielkay]

Part of what interested me in this case is that they are Church of Christ. There are varying degrees of this church. My husband goes to one that is more lenient, yet still more conservative than many other protestant Christian churches. Divorce is permitted (plenty are) but frowned upon and men are to be the head of the household. Women are to be submissive. I don't think this was always the case - there were a lot of hen pecked husbands who thought they were in charge - but I still didn't like it. I tried to blend in for a while (we met at that church) but couldn't handle the "women silent in church" business. Women could teach Bible class for little ones, or other women, but never lead a man. Never lead a prayer where a man was present. Never lead communion, never lead singing. There were some genuinely nice people there - people who on the surface appeared picture perfect every time. But who knows what really went on . . .

In some Churches of Christ, it is so restrictive that people literally believe they cannot get divorced unless there is adultery. I was part of a support group in which several had committed adultery ONLY to get out of the marriage, which is insane. If you're thinking your soul is on the line, if you go to your preacher and he says "obey your husband", then what is a woman to do? Especially one with little outside support in some small town. Especially one married to a "perfect" preacher - these people can always put on a show for others.

Now it is possible it was all about bad checks and that she'd lost their money and she killed him for that. He could have been totally innocent of anything and if so, that is truly horrible for him, his parents, his children. I don't know. In the movie they had him having her write the checks, which is believable. Men are supposed to control the money in a Church of Christ household. I finally wrestled it from my husband when he proved he couldn't keep the books well. If he told her to write a check, she would do it, and if he wanted to avoid bad credit, he'd have her put it in her name.

That's not to say that's the reason, and it is strange to hear so little of the Winkler's side. I think they declined interviews a lot, not wanting to be in the spotlight or make it harder on the grandchildren. Whether it was true or not, the movie touched me - my husband does not believe he can control me, but there are many men that do. And they are preached that all their lives. It's scary as hell.

The eldest daughter was supposed to have seen the father dying. I wonder if she would ever step up and say anything? In the movie, the girls hear the parents fighting, hear the violence going on. Did they really? Couldn't they say so now? I wonder. I can't imagine how it was for them growing up.

[Cone]

I was unaware of this story until this thread, but by my googling it seems like Mary is out of jail and got custody in 2008. Has she made any public comments or anything since she was freed?

[laura oz]

Gah. It is so hard to know some stuff and not be able to say it. But what was known is it wasn't just fighting about money...she was taken in on a Nigeria scam and lost all their money. Everything. She shot him the day he discovered it.

Well, damn. Now I don't know what to think about Candyce DeLong's judgment. :?

[treemom]

Well, damn. Now I don't know what to think about Candyce DeLong's judgment. :?

We can both be right at the same time.

[treemom]

There is no evidence he knew about the money and was involved in accepting the money from the scams, if that was implied in the film it was based only on someone saying that or dramatic license, not any evidence.

[javafriend]

I googled Mary's name and there wasn't much current information. She was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis a few years ago but I couldn't find anything after that.

[Mela99]

I still don't know where I stand on her case.

[nerdymama1]

Interesting. I didn't know about the Nigerian scam thing but I always felt so bad for her. When you're married to a pastor in a conservative denomination, there is no way out but death, so it's very easy to start fantasizing. Speculating because I don't know what all treemom knows, but it's possible they both had their problems: she had financial ones and he had anger/abuse issues. Those kinds of problems tend to feed each other: she's depressed and falls for scams and/or spends money and he gets angrier so she gets more depressed and so on and so forth.

Sex is the one sin that can easily remain hidden in a church that puts their ministers on a pedestal and expects them and their children to be 100% perfect all the time with the threat of losing your job if you screw up in the slightest bit, and if you live in a parsonage, you lose your job AND your home. That kind of unrelenting pressure is a breeding ground for problems, and many pastors seem to express those problems in the bedroom. So I always believed her story. Maybe both versions are true. Who knows?

[treemom]

Interesting. I didn't know about the Nigerian scam thing but I always felt so bad for her. When you're married to a pastor in a conservative denomination, there is no way out but death, so it's very easy to start fantasizing. Speculating because I don't know what all treemom knows, but it's possible they both had their problems: she had financial ones and he had anger/abuse issues. Those kinds of problems tend to feed each other: she's depressed and falls for scams and/or spends money and he gets angrier so she gets more depressed and so on and so forth.

Sex is the one sin that can easily remain hidden in a church that puts their ministers on a pedestal and expects them and their children to be 100% perfect all the time with the threat of losing your job if you screw up in the slightest bit, and if you live in a parsonage, you lose your job AND your home. That kind of unrelenting pressure is a breeding ground for problems, and many pastors seem to express those problems in the bedroom. So I always believed her story. Maybe both versions are true. Who knows?

I believe all of it can be true. I don't believe she was abused the way she described, but I do believe that it is possible she was abused on another way and possible I am wrong. And I don't think the verdict was wrong either, (well I don't think the proved capital murder...I am not sure I would have been able to vote for voluntary manslaughter either, even if I think she did murder him.)